"P" plates, opinions please

[Deva Link]

pdV6 said:

Deva Link said:

I was pretty confident that the younger one would pass first time. But then the tester was from out of the area and took her on an unfamiliar route - more than enough to flummox most learner drivers.

I'm not sure I'd be happy with a learner passing if something as simple as an unfamiliar road dropped their standard of driving enough to be instantly noticeable. What are they going to do once passed - stick to familiar routes within a mile of home for the rest of their lives?

Mnay girls exhibit a cautiousness which is hard for a male to understand. But that's why they crash less and an 18yr old girl's insurance premium is a third of that of an 18yr old lad.

And there must be something in it as it's pretty standard practice for instructors to drive the known test routes several times beforehand.

[BertBert]

My Son and daughter's premiums were different, but not that different!
BErt

[Nigel Worc's]

pdV6 said:

Deva Link said:

I was pretty confident that the younger one would pass first time. But then the tester was from out of the area and took her on an unfamiliar route - more than enough to flummox most learner drivers.

I'm not sure I'd be happy with a learner passing if something as simple as an unfamiliar road dropped their standard of driving enough to be instantly noticeable. What are they going to do once passed - stick to familiar routes within a mile of home for the rest of their lives?

Nope, in the age old tradition, they pass their test, then learn to drive !

In that aspect, its no different now to how its always been.

[Martin A]

Hi again

Deva Link said:

Martin A said:

Hope this helps

Not really. You make a lot of assumptions.

You're no ex-Bib are you? The driver trainers we use at work are pretty heavy going too.

I'm more likely the messenger that many people want to shoot rather than current or ex-Bib. I'd probably be heavy going for them too when my ideas don't fit in with their beliefs or if they felt I'd been foisted upon them unnecessarily.

What I write about driving is based on extensive personal experience and feedback gained about driver training dating back to the 80's, scientific fact, and on worldwide driver training research up to the current day. If you could be specific about where you think my general assumptions might be wrong please let me know. I'm always willing to learn and alter my views rather than cling on to incorrect understanding for fear of showing weakness.

Hoping for help

Best regards

Martin A

[Deva Link]

Martin A said:

If you could be specific about where you think my general assumptions might be wrong please let me know.

Martin A said:

What it means is that the instructor was excusing himself from getting your children to a high enough standard to be consistently safe on the public highway.

It doesn't mean that at all. The test has to be booked some time in advance. I don't know the current delay, but it's often been 6mths in the past.

As the date nears the pupil/parent/instructor have to make a decision about whether the pupil is ready. I would suggest that rarely does the pupil bale - they'll have a go even if the instructor is convinced they're not ready. There's a limit to how much time they can spend as they're probably studying for or taking A levels. Girls can't cope with learning in different cars - they lock things into memory so they know to start turning the wheel on the reverse when the kerb meets a certain point on the rear wiper and that the steering needs 3/4 of a turn. This limits how much practice they can have if they're going to use the driving school car.

The instructor we used (in our semi-rural area he teaches most of the local kids) made the comment that randomness of the outcomes never ceases to amaze him. Inevitably those under test get nervous (who doesn't?) and some handle that better than others. Perhaps others, who aren't really ready, don't worry as they've nothing to lose. Those to whom the instructor says "you're ready, you'll be fine" would probably feel extra pressure to pass. It's quite a big deal for 17yr old kids, especially for a 1st test - they're well aware that you only get one chance to pass first time, and passing is a significant rite of passage for a teenager.

Martin A said:

It is generally accepted by road safety academics that car control skills have little to do with boys having crashes. I would beg to differ somewhat on this.

Based on my experience of having been a boy who had crashes and on the knowledge of some local incidents, I would agree with the academics. Young lads create situations that are far beyond being saved by car control.

[Taita]

Nigel Worc's said:

Martin A said:

Hi Nigel

Nigel Worc's said:

Taita said:

I'm sorry but I keep thinking of the other types of A Levels

I sense I'm going to regret asking, but what are the other types ?

I'm sure Taita will correct me if I'm wrong but I understand these are dyslexia tests from the days before GCSEs when we also had O levels. I believe they are also known as the 'Alan?' and 'Orla?' questions. If my education serves me correctly.

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Martin A

Cheers Martin, I'm from the days when we did GCE "O" levels, but have no recollection of those.

I was referring to anal intercourse as it happens, but every day is a school day, I didn't know about the questions!

[Nigel Worc's]

Taita said:

Nigel Worc's said:

Martin A said:

Hi Nigel

Nigel Worc's said:

Taita said:

I'm sorry but I keep thinking of the other types of A Levels

I sense I'm going to regret asking, but what are the other types ?

I'm sure Taita will correct me if I'm wrong but I understand these are dyslexia tests from the days before GCSEs when we also had O levels. I believe they are also known as the 'Alan?' and 'Orla?' questions. If my education serves me correctly.

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Martin A

Cheers Martin, I'm from the days when we did GCE "O" levels, but have no recollection of those.

I was referring to anal intercourse as it happens, but every day is a school day, I didn't know about the questions!

Cheers taita, just what a dad wants to hear

[Martin A]

Taita said:

I was referring to anal intercourse as it happens, but every day is a school day, I didn't know about the questions!

I was trying to be subtle when I mentioned the names 'Orla' and 'Alan' in the context of dyslexia. This is a family site after all.

[ScottishSamurai]

I wont be using them when I pass. Not because I don't want to look like a "noob" but I don't want to be 'cushioned' after I pass, I don't want special treatment, I want everyday traffic, even if it means People are stricter. thats life!

I think it puts newly passed drivers into a 'safe zone' where they think, "oh i can get off with doing this" and getting lazy/sloppy with their driving.

[Taita]

Martin A said:

Taita said:

I was referring to anal intercourse as it happens, but every day is a school day, I didn't know about the questions!

I was trying to be subtle when I mentioned the names 'Orla' and 'Alan' in the context of dyslexia. This is a family site after all.

Very good!

Nigel, my apologies

[BertBert]

The thread has become a lot more interesting! Brings a whole new meaning to Advanced Driving!
Bert

[GravelBen]

Deva Link said:

Mnay girls exhibit a cautiousness which is hard for a male to understand. But that's why they crash less and an 18yr old girl's insurance premium is a third of that of an 18yr old lad.

In my experience the girls don't crash less, but the crashes they do have are much less severe - low-speed bumps etc which are either cheap to fix or not worth claiming on. The lads are less likely to have the smaller incidents, but when their overconfidence does catch up with them they're going a lot faster.

[Mr Will]

Deva Link said:

Based on my experience of having been a boy who had crashes and on the knowledge of some local incidents, I would agree with the academics. Young lads create situations that are far beyond being saved by car control.

I agree that car-control will not save all situations, but lads with an understanding of where the limit is and what happens when they get there are less likely to try and take a 30mph bend at 60.

[waremark]

Mr Will said:

Deva Link said:

Based on my experience of having been a boy who had crashes and on the knowledge of some local incidents, I would agree with the academics. Young lads create situations that are far beyond being saved by car control.

I agree that car-control will not save all situations, but lads with an understanding of where the limit is and what happens when they get there are less likely to try and take a 30mph bend at 60.

I think there has been research in the past which has shown the opposite; that limit handling training causes more accidents through increased confidence.

[Mr Will]

waremark said:

I think there has been research in the past which has shown the opposite; that limit handling training causes more accidents through increased confidence.

That surprises me, as the one thing teenage boys are not lacking is confidence, but it is interesting to know.

[skeeterm5]

If I see P plates I treat them as I would a learner and give them more latitude etc, so for me I think they are a good idea.

S

[AMST09]

P Plates get abuse as an L plate does (I don't mean by me)
But you will still be considered a learner
I didn't want them when I passed 2 years ago (admittedly I didn't want to look like an idiot)
But I also knew other drivers would be abusive towards me yet if your not showing off your ability they don't consider you any different to them

[AMST09]

P Plates get abuse as an L plate does (I don't mean by me)
But you will still be considered a learner
I didn't want them when I passed 2 years ago (admittedly I didn't want to look like an idiot)
But I also knew other drivers would be abusive towards me yet if your not showing off your ability they don't consider you any different to them

[p1esk]

skeeterm5 said:

If I see P plates I treat them as I would a learner and give them more latitude etc, so for me I think they are a good idea.

S

I think we should be giving most people a bit more latitude than we sometimes do. In terms of time it costs us nothing worth worrying about, and it makes things safer and more pleasant. Well I find it does.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[ShiggyBiggs]

At least you get a choice in having P plates up over there. In NIreland we get forced to display R plates for a year after passing the driving test. They have pros and cons though. One of the pros is that in my opinion when you pass your driving test you arent fully competetent so drivers will give you a wider berth if need be. One of the cons is that the police will pull you over twice as much for no reason if they see you at night just for being 'young'.