"Community Speedwatch" on BBC News
Discussion
Puff the magic.. said:
Johnnytheboy said:
There you go again. Has it ever been used?
If so, when and where?
The question is can it be you tit, and you know it.If so, when and where?

I'm not disputing for a minute that two witnesses of whatever stripe can provide evidence of speeding to a court. I don't know it for sure, but the strength of your conviction makes me think it's entirely possible, despite you - like me - being some random on a forum. Ultimately it's not relevant.
However, I remain convinced that no NIP has ever been issued on the strength of two speedwatch volunteers without input from a real policeman or a SCP employee. Because if it had, we'd know about it.
The only evidence you've pointed to (elsewhere, see above) turns out to be a lie.
Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's happening.
I await your proof that it is, or suggestions on how I may establish whether it is or not. Because if it is, we should know!
BertBert said:
Puff the magic.. said:
Johnnytheboy said:
There you go again. Has it ever been used?
If so, when and where?
The question is can it be you tit, and you know it.If so, when and where?
Im interested in the answer too.
Bert

BertBert said:
Puff the magic.. said:
Johnnytheboy said:
There you go again. Has it ever been used?
If so, when and where?
The question is can it be you tit, and you know it.If so, when and where?
Im interested in the answer too.
Bert
It all depends on the purpose of each speedwatch scheme
If theyre to educate motorists , speed watchers, police and the limit providers about what are safe speeds for the road it doesnt need to be enforcable, nor does it need numberplates to be collected
If the only way to get a team together in that area is to tell them that their results may be used in evidence it might help. A lot of this is to get the complainers out checking their own complaints.
If it does develop into showing that safe traffic speeds are above the limit, if due to some dire circumstance the limit cant be changed, wouldnt the enforcement bodies take over?
If theyre to educate motorists , speed watchers, police and the limit providers about what are safe speeds for the road it doesnt need to be enforcable, nor does it need numberplates to be collected
If the only way to get a team together in that area is to tell them that their results may be used in evidence it might help. A lot of this is to get the complainers out checking their own complaints.
If it does develop into showing that safe traffic speeds are above the limit, if due to some dire circumstance the limit cant be changed, wouldnt the enforcement bodies take over?
Puff the magic.. said:
BertBert said:
Puff the magic.. said:
Johnnytheboy said:
There you go again. Has it ever been used?
If so, when and where?
The question is can it be you tit, and you know it.If so, when and where?
Im interested in the answer too.
Bert
All I have ever stated is that I believe that no one has been given an NIP on the strength of CSW vounteers' findings, as their current deployment gives no legal force to their data.
You have repeatedly (here and on Safespeed) tried to sideline this in to a (one-sided) debate on whether a prosecution could be brought on the strength of any two witnesses. Initially you did this by quoting "no legal force" out of context.
CSW's current deployment carries no legal force: right or wrong?
To quote Wilts Constabulary: "Community speed watch volunteers only carry out a speed survey and do not give out fixed penalty notices or speeding tickets."
Hence my - thus far futile - attempts to get you to tell us if you have any evidence to contradict the official answer above. The closest you got to this (on Safespeed) was to link to the BBC story above, which as we've established, results from someone from Wilts Council telling porkies.
So if you've nothing else to add to rescue any credibilty (calling me names probably won't do it), I guess we can safely conclude that at present CSW volunteers don't initiate prosecutions for speeding off their own bat.
AAGR said:
And, I wonder - who will be the first to go past some of these vigilantes, turn round, return, and leave them a written notice which says : We know where you live too ....'
Anecdotally, a lot of these schemes are fairly short-lived, one reason being that volunteers swiftly realise the "speeders" that they have imagined to be some nebulous bunch of auslanders turn out to be their own neighbours. Or even themselves:
The internet said:
Three members of the Women's Institute campaigned against reckless drivers in their village of Herstmonceux, East Sussex. They were delighted when a new speed camera was installed, but are less pleased now. All three have since been caught on it and each has been fined £60.

Link
Johnnytheboy said:
The internet said:
Three members of the Women's Institute campaigned against reckless drivers in their village of Herstmonceux, East Sussex. They were delighted when a new speed camera was installed, but are less pleased now. All three have since been caught on it and each has been fined £60.

Link
Bert
BertBert said:
Johnnytheboy said:
The internet said:
Three members of the Women's Institute campaigned against reckless drivers in their village of Herstmonceux, East Sussex. They were delighted when a new speed camera was installed, but are less pleased now. All three have since been caught on it and each has been fined £60.

Link
Bert
BertBert said:
Be interesting to find out, but I bet it is made up. How would it come to light?
Bert
It was reported in the Times back in 2006, and is referred to in this thread on pepipoo...Bert
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1495...
The links don't work - but after 4 years thats hardly surprising.
It was also posted up on Safespeed at the time, and I recall the links worked OK back then... to the Times newspaper!
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=...
I do know that the speed camera at Ings has caught several local residents who campaigned for the limit to be reduced - and what is worse, they should have been slowing down anyway to turn into their residences!
One local landlord
was interviewed in connection with some vandalism of the speed cameras a while back - pointlessly as it turned out!

Not sure why they singled him out!

That is offset by an employee at the filling station who organised a text alert for when the mobile van turns up to counter those who fail to slow down quickly enough as they enter the limited area! You don't get that sort of service at supermarket filling stations!

One local landlord



Not sure why they singled him out!


That is offset by an employee at the filling station who organised a text alert for when the mobile van turns up to counter those who fail to slow down quickly enough as they enter the limited area! You don't get that sort of service at supermarket filling stations!

Johnnytheboy said:
Puff the magic.. said:
BertBert said:
Puff the magic.. said:
Johnnytheboy said:
There you go again. Has it ever been used?
If so, when and where?
The question is can it be you tit, and you know it.If so, when and where?
Im interested in the answer too.
Bert
And in terms of their 'powers', no more than every other citizen's basic powers under the law.
Streaky
Mill Wheel said:
That is offset by an employee at the filling station who organised a text alert for when the mobile van turns up to counter those who fail to slow down quickly enough as they enter the limited area! You don't get that sort of service at supermarket filling stations!
I like it!
streaky said:
They cannot be 'expert' witnesses regarding speed in the same manner as police officers, unless they have some specific credentials or experience in the area - e.g. ex-police officer. Were they to be called as (Mark One eyeball) witnesses to the speed, I'm sure an astute solicitor would invite them to demonstrate their powers of observation and estimation to the court. I doubt that the CPS would take the chance that they would be shown to be inaccurate, so would be highly unlikely to call them.
And in terms of their 'powers', no more than every other citizen's basic powers under the law.
Streaky
That's exactly what Puff is saying, that's all you need. Quoting him with his 'Greenshed' hat on from Safespeed:And in terms of their 'powers', no more than every other citizen's basic powers under the law.
Streaky
Greenshed said:
The legal force exists, it is in statute and prosecutions have resulted from the evidence of CSW volunteers. Of course you may not believe the BBC and Wiltshire police but now bring the evidence that their report is incorrect or the police have given them the wrong information and more importantly bring evidence from UK law that CSW have “no legal force” because that is what you have alleged and I have challenged.
Ignoring the misquoting of "no legal force" as usual, when I posted my FoI response...Wilts Police said:
Wiltshire Police does not hold any data appertaining to speeding convictions that have resulted solely from the data obtained from Community Speedwatch Volunteers. Community speed watch volunteers only carry out a speed survey and do not give out fixed penalty notices or speeding tickets.
...he never replied. Strange.Johnnytheboy said:
That's exactly what Puff is saying, that's all you need. Quoting him with his 'Greenshed' hat on from Safespeed:
Puff's ok. He's not the only supposed expert in these threads who thinks winning an argument is about being abusive rather than looking at what's happening on the ground.Greenshed said:
The legal force exists, it is in statute and prosecutions have resulted from the evidence of CSW volunteers. Of course you may not believe the BBC and Wiltshire police but now bring the evidence that their report is incorrect or the police have given them the wrong information and more importantly bring evidence from UK law that CSW have “no legal force” because that is what you have alleged and I have challenged.
Ignoring the misquoting of "no legal force" as usual, when I posted my FoI response...Wilts Police said:
Wiltshire Police does not hold any data appertaining to speeding convictions that have resulted solely from the data obtained from Community Speedwatch Volunteers. Community speed watch volunteers only carry out a speed survey and do not give out fixed penalty notices or speeding tickets.
...he never replied. Strange.However it is useful having such opinion posted if only to see where they're coming from ( as it might be how the system operates) and just in case there is slim basis.

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