Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 2]

[loafer123]

Tartan Pixie said:

loafer123 said:

What is the difference?

Revaluation means the fiat system is reset in a reasonably orderly way, collapse is the sort of disorganized chaos that could be provoked if, say, China and friends dumped their dollar reserves overnight and the only money worth anything in USA was gold (and Yuan).

This is very far in to the territory of speculation however.

It was a rhetorical question. There is no difference. Uou've been spending too much time with Globs.

As for the EU using competition rules to allow banks to fail...that is more likely to result in the acceleration of the end of the EU than resolution of the banking crisis by forcing nationalistic behaviour by governments trying to save banks.

[turbobloke]

Peston pooh poohs 40bn before and after IMF report

[Steffan]

turbobloke said:

Closedown and restructuring as options for afflicted EZ banks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis...

The real problem is that the EU and Defaulters are grandstanding, threatening, cajoling and upbraiding each other. No Solutions or even sensible suggestions. There are, as yet, after two years of gathering crisis, absolutely no solutions on any table.

M'Obama's fuss is just that. Fuss and froth. His solution is to bail out the defaulters, with other people's money, and then pretend they can recover.

The defaulters are terminally insolvent. They can pay neither the Capital nor the Interest on the loans. They WILL default, because they CANNOT afford these loans. Ever.

Buying time is M'Obama's sole aim. Push it on until he is reelected. Possibly. Possibly not. But that is his aim.

This can only end one way. As various contributors have said: Do the Maths.

Default is inevitable. More delay just means even bigger losses.

[Gary11]

I think the banks are just buisnesses (sharks),let them fail they have had their chance and used it to their advantage QE for the masses utter bullst,theres a few new ones waiting to fill shoes,I hope they burn...Ive seen how they actualy behave,Ive seen things that you wouldnt belive a "reputable" bank capable of stealing companys,deals and property,calling in as and when its best for them and then selling on,why do we help these out of date greedy fkers in their quest?? Beats me.

[turbobloke]

Lehman Brothers Syndrome?

[Steffan]

Gary11 said:

I think the banks are just buisnesses (sharks),let them fail they have had their chance and used it to their advantage QE for the masses utter bullst,theres a few new ones waiting to fill shoes,I hope they burn...Ive seen how they actualy behave,Ive seen things that you wouldnt belive a "reputable" bank capable of stealing companys,deals and property,calling in as and when its best for them and then selling on,why do we help these out of date greedy fkers in their quest?? Beats me.

Agreed. Pity the politicians cannot, or will not recognise this truth.

[Globs]

LongQ said:

Tartan Pixie said:

I don't think it's a case of world government,

Not in the immediate future one presumes although never underestimate the potenmtial for some group or other to take advantage of a passing crisis that might be beneficial to their objectives.!

What the David Ickes of this world don't realise is that it really doesn't matter.
World government or just the EU - what's the difference?
We still get taxed to death, we still get the shaft and still no democracy.

World government, Bilderberg, international socialists etc., we know who is creating the chaos and they are not secret and mostly not impossible to vote out.

[Blib]

The BBC is reporting the Spanish bailout to be at about 100 billion Euros. Unsurprising.

[Steffan]

Clearly the EU is still relying on smoke and mirrors.

Latest on BBC suggests funding agreed by EU for Spanish Banks. No amounts, no details just unsupported promises.

See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18382659

More Euro's by the multi Billion being thrown away. The Spanish Banks will not recover. Spain will not recover. More debt will be unpaid.

I really do wonder how long the bland promises can support the markets. Anyone with O level maths can see this will never actually work. Apparently that does not matter.

It does seem to me that the EU have absolutely no intention of addressing the underlying difficulties in the HBAT's to make recovery possible. The EU simply want to pass this on to someone else. But who is there?

This is just silly now: I wonder what the Economists will make of this over the weekend?

[Gary11]

Just basic maths denotes no EU member state has spare money to lend,so wheres it coming from? Please someone tell us who CAN afford it apart from the Frau?

[loafer123]

Statement available on FT Alphaville here;

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2012/06/09/1035581...

Up to €100bn including extra capacity fron he EFSF/ESM.

[AndrewW-G]

DT suggesting a E81,000,000,000 bailout of just the spanish financial sector.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis...

[Globs]

Steffan said:

The EU simply want to pass this on to someone else. But who is there?

This is a trick question yes?

The plan is the usual one, like in Ireland the plan is to rape the taxpayer.
Lets hope for Spain to follow the lessons of Iceland and let the debts be defaulted away.

From the Telegraph comments:

damicol said:

I strongly suggest that these clowns thieves and corrupt devious lying criminals employ the services of one Mr Bernie Madeoff.
He had a redeeming feature, He knew what he was doing.

At least his Ponzi scheme lasted far longer that the shot to pieces holed below the waterline, bankrupt and thoroughly discredited abysmal paper shuffling pretense that the current utterly useless stack of corrupt worthless tissue of risible and actually laughable pottage of insignificant documents and plans and bonds that these feeble minded utterly incompetent nincompoops, bereft as they are of even the slightest inkling of what financial matters mean in the real world.

At least Mr Madeoff's schemes, when they collapsed, did so without leaving hundreds of millions of ordinary people bankrupt and with wrecked lives and the imposition of usurious taxes and theft of citizens assets and the wholesale destruction of the entire SME base of the Southern United States.

These dregs from the bottom of a cesspit have not only targeted the elderly, wrecking and stealing pensions, homeowners, small businesses the sick the university graduates and hundreds of millions losing freedoms and rights and their future. and smashed beyond any possible hopes of recovery over 30 % of the SME base of Southern Europe

And the receivers actually managed to rescue something from Mr Madeoff's excesses.

This Ponzi scheme, currently rocketing north of 50 trillion across just the EU alone and the inept criminal shysters and their filthy toadying supporters, when this collapses, it will not, as with Mr Madeoff, see an end to the misery, but the start of something that will wreck ever more millions of lives and leave nothing but smoking ruins and utter devastation over a whole continent.

And that is if it collapses right now.

God knows whats in store if somehow these lying scumbags can suppress and stamp on the lives of the 500 million Europeans, grinding them ever deeper into despair and poverty by plundering the scraps that are left to keep this figment of their twisted imagination as far as anything of any value is concerned going.

And that leaves me left to consider just how upright, respectable and honorable and just what a paragon of virtue and sincerity and honesty he was in comparison to the parasitic turds that infest Brussels.

He seems to have the correct measure of them.

Edited by Globs on Saturday 9th June 20:27

[odyssey2200]

AndrewW-G said:

DT suggesting a E81,000,000,000 bailout of just the spanish financial sector.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis...

If that's the cost of saving them (maybe only temporarily) whats the cost of letting them go?

We have already seen that bailouts only result in a second bailout and so on.

[Daz68]

A Billion here and a Billion there seems all so trivial and normal to the fools that are in charge of this mess. The fall out that will inevitably follow has massive and unforeseen events for alot of good honest people. I fear the worst.

[Globs]

Daz68 said:

A Billion here and a Billion there seems all so trivial and normal to the fools that are in charge of this mess. The fall out that will inevitably follow has massive and unforeseen events for alot of good honest people. I fear the worst.

If there are about 16m working people in Spain that's €62.50 for each worker per billion.
So a state backed bailout of €81m will cost them €5062 (plus compounding interest).

[WhoseGeneration]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18382659

Observe the positive spin presented.
Them politicians still usurping economic theory then.

[Steffan]

Globs said:

Daz68 said:

A Billion here and a Billion there seems all so trivial and normal to the fools that are in charge of this mess. The fall out that will inevitably follow has massive and unforeseen events for alot of good honest people. I fear the worst.

If there are about 16m working people in Spain that's €62.50 for each worker per billion.
So a state backed bailout of €81m will cost them €5062 (plus compounding interest).

I appreciate the detailed workings. As you will understand, Globs, sadly the real costs to Spain will be much higher then this.

The entire underlying premise of the bail out itself is a complete nonsense. The HBAT's cannot afford to actually live in the manner to which excessive borrowing enabled them to live. That is the real problem. The Spanish economy CANNOT generate sufficient income to repay either this or any other bail out or interest thereon.

The EU are pretending the debt will be repaid in exactly the same way that the Spanish Banks have been pretending that their hopelessly overexposed mortgage lending would be repaid. For four years. Dishonestly. Neither will be. The debt is dead and the bail out will be dead too. Nothing is coming back from this nonsense to the EU.

The outright dishonesty and misfeance going on in the EU attempt to put off reality is simply disgraceful.

There is going to be a huge unremitting collapse across Europe as the reality of the nonsense that is being perpetrated in the name of Economics is made apparent by events. Just a matter of time.

There is no recovery for the HBAT's in this and the EU will pick up the Trillions of lost debt. Absolute and utter Madness. Sheer unadulterated stupidity. Blind foolishness. These are kindly descriptions of the EU hegemoney involved in this total sham.

[odyssey2200]

Globs said:

Daz68 said:

A Billion here and a Billion there seems all so trivial and normal to the fools that are in charge of this mess. The fall out that will inevitably follow has massive and unforeseen events for alot of good honest people. I fear the worst.

If there are about 16m working people in Spain that's €62.50 for each worker per billion.
So a state backed bailout of €81m will cost them €5062 (plus compounding interest).

I think the figure was 81 BILLION not 81 million.

[Globs]

odyssey2200 said:

I think the figure was 81 BILLION not 81 million.

Sorry yes I used 81e9 in the calculation.
As Steffan says, this sum is too big and can't be paid back.
I always reduce it to cost-per-taxpayer to see how affordable it is to the average Joe, or Pedrosa.

I.e. the Olympics here cost £600 each. Puts it all into perspective for me