Why is In Car Audio so far behind?

[Hudson]

My golf came with a whopping 4w RMS radio cassette player, with a CD changer in the boot.

Swapped it for a £80 50w RMS Alpine head unit, stuck a tiny 16gb USB stick in the front (£12) and just filled that with music - job done. No trailing wires, no need to keep my iPod on charge, just turn on -> receive music.

This is the USB stick - http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/200597617360?var=lv... due to its size it doesn't "stick out" too much and get in the way.


Only thing it's missing is radio (antenna not plugged in) but it's not DAB anyway and normal radio plays nothing but st so i haven't been missing it.

[Ed.]

Not read whole thread but tape was cheaper than cd so you had to pay for the upgrade, USB is cheaper than cd so you will get that upgrade free.

They are only upgrades if the customer wants it anyway. There are people happy with tapes who don't like computers.
Will be interesting to see if rumoured iPhone dock change goes ahead.

Edited by Ed. on Wednesday 11th July 09:02

[Ed.]

Funk said:

Stuff

5) DAB. They're going to turn off all analogue radio signals in the not-too-distant, rendering EVERY car radio utterly useless. DAB should now be the default. It should also give higher bitrates to each channel, there's no excuse for a 64kbps DAB signal. 192kbps or higher please.

Edited by Funk on Wednesday 11th July 01:29

Agree with most things but the DAB stuff, FM can't be turned off until 90% can get it and 50% do. Also they can't increase the 80's tech bit rate without making all first gen receivers obsolete which might annoy some early adopters.

By the time the BBC has pushed through the change to dab+ like the rest of the world mobile data streaming will be more common using the old analogue bandwidth.

[Scuffers]

SrMoreno said:

Whitean3 said:

I have a 2002 Porsche 911 with built in double DIN sat nav (with nav-specific CD drive! and cassette player. Admittedly there is a 6CD changer in the boot up front, but I would bet money that the cassette player has NEVER been used.

My previous car, a 1998 Golf MK4 also had a casstte player that was never used- obsolete again thanks to a boot mounted 6CD changer. I think these days, standard equipment is far more up-to-date- even the lowliest cars have USB ports.

I don't know why you can't get head units with SD ports in them- much easier to carry a few 32 gb SD cards in the glove box! And no wires, chargers etc required.

You can get head units with SD ports. Volkswagen do them, and I'm sure many other manufacturers do as well.

Yup, Audi's MMI has 2 SD(HC) slot's, can read 32G cards just fine - HOWEVER!
whoever wrote the software needs a good shoeing!

it's got a 3,000 track limit per card, after that it just ignores them... WHY?

[Challo]

Deluded said:

r11co said:

Spot the person who has never had DAB in the car. I've just fitted a (Mk1) Pure Highway adapter to my car using a through-the-glass external antenna which is a less-than-ideal set up and so far the only time it has dropped out was in the bowels of a multi-storey car park in a city centre where even FM signals struggle to penetrate.

I have actually. An aftermarket head unit I had a few years back was equipped and I installed properly with the provided arial.

Couldn't get signal in my local area so it automatically used fm and then when it was in a dab area, it would often loose signal on the move and switch back to fm. Up and down the m1 was a nightmare for dab.

May be better now as this was approx 2 years ago but someone in the family more recently bought similar and found exactly the same.

I have a DAB unit as standard in my Mk H Astra. Always listen to DAB as the sound quality is excellant. Always has a large range of channels to choose from and the only time it cuts out is in multi-storey car parks. Used it plenty of times driving from Bracknell to Manchester and never had a problem with the signal. Its always been better than FM/AM

[ajh38]

Often base models don't have the latest technology as there has to be a reason for the consumer to part with an extra 3k to get to a higher spec. In car Audio is no different to alloys, air con or even an arm rest. The only real difference is that technological improvements move at a faster rate.

[drab]

I used to dream about having a portable one on top, like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiSwnlaWQzE

[TheInternet]

Funk said:

2) MP3 is lower quality than tape in terms of output, frequency reproduction and dynamic range.

3) Support for all major formats. I accept there will be a need for lossy formats, so in-car systems should support all of the following audio formats: FLAC, OGG, m4a MP3, AAC, WMA, WAV and APE.

4) Remove cigarette lighters. Have an amnesty. On 'x' date, all manufactures replace cigarette lighters with a double or triple USB socket instead. Set a cutoff date and stop using such a terribly-designed connector.

5) They're going to turn off all analogue radio signals in the not-too-distant, rendering EVERY car radio utterly useless. DAB should now be the default. It should also give higher bitrates to each channel, there's no excuse for a 64kbps DAB signal. 192kbps or higher please.

A few good points raised, but you should remove the above from your manifesto to prevent it coming across a bit laughable.

[GoodDoc]

Funk said:

I've often been bemused by the archaic systems in cars. Even the notion of plugging in a phone or iPod seems weird, especially if it's to an 'Aux In' where you only have control on the device itself (which you'll not be allowed to hold as it's a phone - or looks like one in the case of an iPod).

Here's what I would like in cars:

1) Wi-fi connection: You can put them in phones and laptops for peanuts. Put one in a car by default because I'd also like...

2) ...a 1Tb hard drive to store all my music. UNCOMPRESSED. We didn't progress to CD quality only to go backwards with MP3 (which actually is lower quality than tape in terms of output, frequency reproduction and dynamic range). I want to be able to connect my car to my home wi-fi as a device and drag-and-drop music to it. I know some BMWs allow you to 'rip' the CD to the car's hard drive but this is a bizarrely clunky way of doing it (who wants to sit there feeding discs in one after the other and waiting for it to rip?) and the drive was only something paltry like 20Gb. Also I can't imagine that managing the music on there was particularly easy (and I'd suspect that things like tagging were not on the menu for many albums without CD-TEXT). Oh, and it assumes that you have your entire music collection on disc. How quaint.

3) Support for all major formats. I accept there will be a need for lossy formats, so in-car systems should support all of the following audio formats: FLAC, OGG, m4a MP3, AAC, WMA, WAV and APE. They should support playlists too.

4) Remove cigarette lighters. They're an appalling connector and borne of legacy, not design. Have an amnesty. On 'x' date, all manufactures replace cigarette lighters with a double or triple USB socket instead. Most of the things we like to charge can be charged from USB. Set a cutoff date and stop using such a terribly-designed connector.

5) DAB. They're going to turn off all analogue radio signals in the not-too-distant, rendering EVERY car radio utterly useless. DAB should now be the default. It should also give higher bitrates to each channel, there's no excuse for a 64kbps DAB signal. 192kbps or higher please.

6) Bluetooth on all cars. It's not expensive. I can buy a bluetooth earpiece for a tenner - fit the tech to every car, especially as using a mobile is now illegal when you're driving. Allow the phonebook to be accessed on the car's system, as well as making or receiving calls.

7) Mobile internet. If Amazon can provide it on the Kindle for free, car manufacturers can too. There's no reason why all cars shouldn't have basic internet access for things like searching the local area. In fact, abolish stupidly-expensive (and outdated) nav systems in cars - use the tech from any modern Android phone with free Google Navigation - maps are always up to date, as is the live traffic info. Not to mention the advantages if the car is stolen - it can text you that it's been nicked, and the GPS can immediately tell the Police where the car is at any given point.

8) Speakers. Minimum of four mid/bass units in the doors/panels and four tweeters up top at ear-level. Aiwa can fit tweeters in a £30 stereo, car manufacturers should too.

9) Integrated controls on the wheel. It's not hard. Buttons for Play/Pause, Next/Previous, Vol+ and Vol- and a button for answering phone calls. Not difficult.


All I can say is that it's a good thing the car industry isn't responsible for the progress of the computing industry; we'd still be using BBCs and ZX Spectrums if the automotive folks were at the technological tiller. Conversely, if the IT industry were responsible for the progress of the car industry, I think we'd have flying jet cars by now.

Edited by Funk on Wednesday 11th July 01:29

That's an excellent wish and many of those features would be enough to get me to move from manufacturer X to manufacture Y, in fact some of the Ford Sync technology has me looking at the Focus as serious replacement for my current car.

However I feel I must rain on your parade somewhat;

1) Wi-fi connection:
While I can think of a number of uses for integrated WiFi in my car, (e.g. having an AirPlay capable car) even given the small cost of adding the necessary hardware I can't see many manufactures adding it when the even the 'pie in the sky' uses are poorly defined and the real world users simply don't exists for 90% of car buyers.

2) ...a 1Tb hard drive to store all my music. UNCOMPRESSED.
I too enjoy my music uncompressed, but when on the move there is simply no need for uncompressed music, the car is not an audiophile friendly environment and I challenge anyone to tell the difference between a well encoded MP3 file and an uncompressed FLAC or AAC file at 70mph on the M25. There's a pint waiting for you if you can tell the difference. Ripping/purchasing music on a computer and storing it on a portable player provides a much better experience for 90% of users, and neatly gets round the issue of labelling tracks or listening to music that isn't on discs. Plus, cars are't not a great environment for spinning hard drives

3) Support for all major formats.
Format support will be solely determined by the formats supported by the chips used in player, and to be honest, only MP3, AAC and WMA are really required. The higher quality, open source and DRM laden formats aren't required by 99% of car purchasers

4) Remove cigarette lighters.
Amen! But not going to happen in the next five years, there's simply too much invested in this crappy connector. You and I might be willing to replace every cable we use in the car but most car purchasers will complain at having to buy a new £10 cable for their TomTom.

5) DAB.
Can't comment, don't listen to the Radio in the car, but I assume broadcasters user low bit rate to squeeze more content into available frequencies.

6) Bluetooth on all cars.
Agreed, but the integration between phone and car requires relationships between car and electronic manufactures (not much evidence they can do that) or a standard, and someone usually wants to control a standard for commercial gain.

7) Mobile Internet.
Amazon provide Internet access on Kindles for free because it drives sales of books to Kindle users. There's no current business model I think of that would allow manufactures to recover the cost of providing open Internet access, and you can't rely on that access being available everywhere. Plus, you have the obsolete technology issue. What will Internet access look like when that brand new fleet car is 10 years old? My 10 year old mobile phone can make calls and send text messages, but that's it.

8) Speakers.
Why fit £30 speakers when 90% of users are happy with £5 speakers, especially when you can charge those 10% of owners hundreds of £s to upgrade.

9) Integrated controls on the wheel.
Great idea, and most modern cars have this features for the cars integrated system, but it becomes very difficult if you want to integrate those buttons with all the possible music players/phones that might be connected to the car.


Putting fast evolving technology into a car that will last for at least 10 years if fraught with issues. It's taken us this long to get to the point where we can reasonably expect to find an analogue stereo line in and a 12v power supply in a new car. The simple fact is that these features are not what drive a consumers decision to buy a new car, but these features can be used to drive sales of extras and options.

And comparing the car and technology industries is not a fair comparison. Yes technology have advanced hugely in recent years, but we don't have to replace our cars every three years or reboot them every week (although I did once have to restart a Prius to get the self parking feature to work).

I agree with your wish and I would pay money for most of the features you listed, but most of them are still afterthoughts for car buyers, and therefore aren't important for car manufactures. I think a lot of the modern features on modern car stereos are there because it suits manufactures. Why install a tape deck, cd player/changer, mini disc that will cost the manufacturer money when the driver can provide it him/herself.

[SturdyHSV]

Funk said:

if the IT industry were responsible for the progress of the car industry, I think we'd have flying jet cars by now.

Yes, jet cars that randomly crashed once a week, were obsolete after 2 years, and unworkable by people over 50.

Your wish list would be lovely though.

[Turnamere]

Scuffers said:

SrMoreno said:

Whitean3 said:

I have a 2002 Porsche 911 with built in double DIN sat nav (with nav-specific CD drive! and cassette player. Admittedly there is a 6CD changer in the boot up front, but I would bet money that the cassette player has NEVER been used.

My previous car, a 1998 Golf MK4 also had a casstte player that was never used- obsolete again thanks to a boot mounted 6CD changer. I think these days, standard equipment is far more up-to-date- even the lowliest cars have USB ports.

I don't know why you can't get head units with SD ports in them- much easier to carry a few 32 gb SD cards in the glove box! And no wires, chargers etc required.

You can get head units with SD ports. Volkswagen do them, and I'm sure many other manufacturers do as well.

Yup, Audi's MMI has 2 SD(HC) slot's, can read 32G cards just fine - HOWEVER!
whoever wrote the software needs a good shoeing!

it's got a 3,000 track limit per card, after that it just ignores them... WHY?

I am amazed at how few aftermarket manufacturers offer SD Card Slots...

It seems like a great solution to me, the card is flush with the chasis rather than sticking out the front asking to be kicked off by a clumsy passenger. 32Gb cards are cheap as chips and are surely capable of holding enough music for most motorists. It also avoids the need to invest in a JesusPod that I then have to secure somewhere in the car.

Kenwood do 3 SD capable head units, anyone know of any others?

[Dave200]

Funk said:

Here's what I would like in cars:

Yes, and while we're at it, I would like a small Filipino boy who gently caresses my testicles while I drive.

Here's the thing, buster - given that people with our views/needs represent approximately 0.0000003% of the global car-buying population, where is the incentive for manufacturers to do it?

Bluetooth and aux inputs are still seldom-selected options on the VAST majority of 'normal' spec cars, simply because the demand just isn't there. But hey, don't let that stop you from ranting about CD-ripping and lossless formats until you go blue in the face...

[DJRC]

LuS1fer said:

B Huey said:

Me too. I didn't get ipod until last year, now got a 160gb but not getting on with it at all.

I use mine in work to listen to the radio. Annoyingly, where I work, in a tower, seems to have a DAB block as I can't get anything. the other thing is that playing tracks sucks the power so in a car, you'd soon run out of juice and adduing external power defaults to charging mode (Cowon).

Not all new tech is better tech.

I got one from my wife for my birthday last year. I have never even turned it on let alone downloaded anything onto it.

[Cheib]

The problem car manufacturers have with audio and even phone compatability is that it's such a fast moving sector. Cars are generally three or four years int he making with I imagine the final spec probably frozen for things like car audio a year at least before the car is launched.

It's almost impossible for them to be up to date so most of them just don't try very hard. I'd say the rate of progress has slowed down now in terms of formats.....it's now much more about the interface so I would imagine car manufacturers will catch up a bit. MP3 and other current audio formats are likely to be with us a while so they can uild architecture with that in mind.

[s2ooz]

Of course the suggestion that IT would do a better job is flawed, because IT are busy making tape decks for computer web players...


http://tympanus.net/Development/CassettePlayer/

[Jonny_]

As a minimum I'd expect a new car to have a USB port and Bluetooth - just about every car on sale offers these as an option at least. For the paltry cost of the componentry they ought to be thrown in on even the cheapest of cars.

Not sure why it's taking so long for DAB to become ubiquitous; my car's standard DAB radio works very well indeed and is much nicer to use than p*ssing about trying to tune into FM or AM stations.