Live music in a pub beer garden
Discussion
fergywales said:
Efbe said:
Some out of date information along with some specifics to a local area
Licensing law has moved on quite a bit in the last 5 years. Most of your post is now out of date, some of it is locally applied bylaws and your comment regarding revocation of a licence is so far off the mark I cannot comment!but still, the council will still have details of the licence, so should be able to tell you exactly what they can and can't do
edit:
anyhow, do tell, what's changed since the 2003 licensing act stuff and 24hour implemenation?
Edited by Efbe on Sunday 24th April 20:29
Efbe said:
fergywales said:
Efbe said:
Some out of date information along with some specifics to a local area
Licensing law has moved on quite a bit in the last 5 years. Most of your post is now out of date, some of it is locally applied bylaws and your comment regarding revocation of a licence is so far off the mark I cannot comment!but still, the council will still have details of the licence, so should be able to tell you exactly what they can and can't do
edit:
anyhow, do tell, what's changed since the 2003 licensing act stuff and 24hour implemenation?
Edited by Efbe on Sunday 24th April 20:29
fergywales said:
Efbe said:
fergywales said:
Efbe said:
Some out of date information along with some specifics to a local area
Licensing law has moved on quite a bit in the last 5 years. Most of your post is now out of date, some of it is locally applied bylaws and your comment regarding revocation of a licence is so far off the mark I cannot comment!but still, the council will still have details of the licence, so should be able to tell you exactly what they can and can't do
edit:
anyhow, do tell, what's changed since the 2003 licensing act stuff and 24hour implemenation?
Edited by Efbe on Sunday 24th April 20:29
What happened with the plans on the licence?
fergywales said:
Firstly, no such thing as a 'music licence', it is a part of a venue's premises licence, listed under entertainment specifics. Secondly, you cannot object once it has been granted, you can make a complaint or application with grounds to revoke to the LA licensing department, who may choose to review the licence. Finally, any indoor or outdoor area of a venue has to be specified within the plan which forms part of the premises licence.
Sorry for not using the technical language. I'm not too sure that my statement that you can object was really that confusing.
Just because an area is in the curtiledge of the building does not mean that the licence applies to it.
Entertainment in a beer garden is to be avoided but should not start before opening hours and should stop before 9pm. According to my (rough) notes, ancillary disruption should be controlled. If there are problems around closing time then advice should be given to have doormen to control punters and cabbies.
There is also a requirement that the pub should be sympathetic to neighbours and if there is going to be some sort of increase in noise for a specific even then they should be informed (I have consulted crossed through and informed put in its place.)
There used to be an exemption for 2 musicians but this was removed in 2003(?).
A bit in caps states that the local environmental health services should be the first bit of advice given to complainants to police. This via phone.
This is the advice given to complainants who phoned my force.
However, I would suggest that a one-off is not sufficient to merit any action. My advice would be to approach the licencees and ask that in future they be given sufficient notice of any such intention of holding entertainment in the garden to give sufficient time to put objections and to consult with other residents. Any lack of cooperation should be noted.
Incidentally, it is enough to have a piano or a karaoke machine on premises, even if not used, to require music to be licensed.
Efbe said:
fergywales said:
Efbe said:
fergywales said:
Efbe said:
Some out of date information along with some specifics to a local area
Licensing law has moved on quite a bit in the last 5 years. Most of your post is now out of date, some of it is locally applied bylaws and your comment regarding revocation of a licence is so far off the mark I cannot comment!but still, the council will still have details of the licence, so should be able to tell you exactly what they can and can't do
edit:
anyhow, do tell, what's changed since the 2003 licensing act stuff and 24hour implemenation?
Edited by Efbe on Sunday 24th April 20:29
What happened with the plans on the licence?
Plans submitted with premises licence applications/renewals/variations now must include both inside and outside areas where customers would be considered to use regularly whilst visiting the venue.
Edited for spelling courtesy of Peroni
Edited by fergywales on Sunday 24th April 20:54
Derek Smith said:
fergywales said:
Firstly, no such thing as a 'music licence', it is a part of a venue's premises licence, listed under entertainment specifics. Secondly, you cannot object once it has been granted, you can make a complaint or application with grounds to revoke to the LA licensing department, who may choose to review the licence. Finally, any indoor or outdoor area of a venue has to be specified within the plan which forms part of the premises licence.
Sorry for not using the technical language. I'm not too sure that my statement that you can object was really that confusing.
Just because an area is in the curtiledge of the building does not mean that the licence applies to it.
Entertainment in a beer garden is to be avoided but should not start before opening hours and should stop before 9pm. According to my (rough) notes, ancillary disruption should be controlled. If there are problems around closing time then advice should be given to have doormen to control punters and cabbies.
There is also a requirement that the pub should be sympathetic to neighbours and if there is going to be some sort of increase in noise for a specific even then they should be informed (I have consulted crossed through and informed put in its place.)
There used to be an exemption for 2 musicians but this was removed in 2003(?).
A bit in caps states that the local environmental health services should be the first bit of advice given to complainants to police. This via phone.
This is the advice given to complainants who phoned my force.
However, I would suggest that a one-off is not sufficient to merit any action. My advice would be to approach the licencees and ask that in future they be given sufficient notice of any such intention of holding entertainment in the garden to give sufficient time to put objections and to consult with other residents. Any lack of cooperation should be noted.
Incidentally, it is enough to have a piano or a karaoke machine on premises, even if not used, to require music to be licensed.
fergywales said:
The 'stuff' in 2007 was the smoking ban, and the backlash of changes required by pubs/clubs to all of a sudden being expected to control their patrons not only inside, but outside, and without alienating their customers any more than 'sorry, Mr. Regular, but you need to stand outside if you want a fag with your pint'.
Plans submitted with premises licence applications/renewals/alterations now must include both inside and outside areas where customers would be considered to use regularly whilst visiting the venue.
ah right, makes sense. Plans submitted with premises licence applications/renewals/alterations now must include both inside and outside areas where customers would be considered to use regularly whilst visiting the venue.
do you work in this area?
Efbe said:
fergywales said:
The 'stuff' in 2007 was the smoking ban, and the backlash of changes required by pubs/clubs to all of a sudden being expected to control their patrons not only inside, but outside, and without alienating their customers any more than 'sorry, Mr. Regular, but you need to stand outside if you want a fag with your pint'.
Plans submitted with premises licence applications/renewals/alterations now must include both inside and outside areas where customers would be considered to use regularly whilst visiting the venue.
ah right, makes sense. Plans submitted with premises licence applications/renewals/alterations now must include both inside and outside areas where customers would be considered to use regularly whilst visiting the venue.
do you work in this area?
fergywales said:
Since 2004, have had 19 pubs/clubs. Gave it all up in 2010 to concentrate on law degree full time. So, I sort of got my knowledge from both sides, but I am also part of the current Home Office / Department for Culture, Media & Sports review and rebalancing consultations of licensing act in the UK.
In 6 years you owned/managed 19 pubs or clubs. Really?bad company said:
gazza285 said:
An apt user name perhaps?
You try living next to a music pub & your views may change.The issue of pub neighbours is far worse than that, however. For instance, one pub, very local to me, had to remove its pavement tables after over 100 years of use due to the sustained campaign of one resident who waited less than a month after moving in before starting their campaign. Now, not only have the tables gone, but smoking drinkers may not take their drinks outside after 11pm at all, the pub (a tiny thing) must employ a marshal in hi-viz on Fri/Sat/Sun nights to ensure that drinkers do not cross the road (3m wide single carriageway), and so on.
skwdenyer said:
bad company said:
gazza285 said:
An apt user name perhaps?
You try living next to a music pub & your views may change.The issue of pub neighbours is far worse than that, however. For instance, one pub, very local to me, had to remove its pavement tables after over 100 years of use due to the sustained campaign of one resident who waited less than a month after moving in before starting their campaign. Now, not only have the tables gone, but smoking drinkers may not take their drinks outside after 11pm at all, the pub (a tiny thing) must employ a marshal in hi-viz on Fri/Sat/Sun nights to ensure that drinkers do not cross the road (3m wide single carriageway), and so on.
joe_90 said:
Why do idiots do this, you must live in a small little village, and that person must have just pissed everyone else off in the village, why would they do that?
Because in this wonderful modern World we live in they can contain themselves in their little home and never need to interact with the village they live in or the rest of the inhabitants. That is of course until they get a three day power cut or the water is cut off for a day or the weather closes in and makes the roads impassable. At that point they may learn what it means to be isolated.
I would lay money on them having moved from the city or and estate.
Pubs are a dynamic. Anyone who has see the way that the trade has been pushed in the last 20 years will know that ‘the Boozer’ is almost dead and gone. Food and Entertainment are seen by many as the salvation of the business and tend to mean that the ‘quite little watering hole’ can quite often become a bit of a noise box on a summer evening.
Rude-boy said:
joe_90 said:
Why do idiots do this, you must live in a small little village, and that person must have just pissed everyone else off in the village, why would they do that?
Because in this wonderful modern World we live in they can contain themselves in their little home and never need to interact with the village they live in or the rest of the inhabitants. That is of course until they get a three day power cut or the water is cut off for a day or the weather closes in and makes the roads impassable. At that point they may learn what it means to be isolated.
I would lay money on them having moved from the city or and estate.
Pubs are a dynamic. Anyone who has see the way that the trade has been pushed in the last 20 years will know that ‘the Boozer’ is almost dead and gone. Food and Entertainment are seen by many as the salvation of the business and tend to mean that the ‘quite little watering hole’ can quite often become a bit of a noise box on a summer evening.
If you can't beat em join em.
Otherwise maybe you should go into the pub and have a chat with the landlord.
The last thing he'll want is to cause a nuisance.
Find out when his next jam night is happening, then if you think its too loud call the noise police.
I'm sure if you put forward your concerns in a nice way he'll keep a cap on the volume.
Otherwise maybe you should go into the pub and have a chat with the landlord.
The last thing he'll want is to cause a nuisance.
Find out when his next jam night is happening, then if you think its too loud call the noise police.
I'm sure if you put forward your concerns in a nice way he'll keep a cap on the volume.
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