Insurance woes....
Discussion
Noger said:
AndyNetwork said:
The whole point of insurance is that it is then their responsibility to get you back into the position you were in before the accident, by offering a payout and getting you to repair the vehicle is not putting you back in that position.
Nope, they put you back into the sane FINANCIAL position. Which isn't the same thing at all. Indemnity makes good your loss, nothing more.The canonical example being losing a pound coin off the side of ship. Your loss is £1, you cannot force them to hire a deep sea salvage vessel to go searching for your quid.
I still can't quite work out why they expect you to be able to get the parts, but their repairer can't. Either they can get the parts and fix it, or they can't and should write it off. The only exception I could see to this is if it is a classic car or a rare import, and the owner has expressed some desire to fix it himself.
Could it be that the owner has been told its a possible write off because of the parts supply situation, and has then gone back to the ins co and said I can get the parts from x for y, and the ins co are now calling his bluff?
BarringtonBrown said:
LoonR1 said:
Your insurer will not just randomly offer a cash in lieu settlement unless you've specifically requested it.
That's exactly what they've done. It was the first thing they offered me after the car had been appraised by their repair place.What they are trying to avoid is agreeing to repair, then you complaining about delays. They are being reasonable in trying to manage the delays by offering you cash in lieu. i.e. the value of your damage (which in this case is the repair cost, not the pre accident value).
I can kinda see why they would do this. They want to settle. But they don't want to wait a year before they can sell on the repaired car. Thus one assumes the "salvage" value will be low.
Without knowing what they are thinking, it is difficult to advise. We have no idea if this is a "ruse" or they believe it to be fair.
Ultimately, it must be fair. I think it may be worth a call to the FOS. You are not asking them to investigate as yet, just give advice. Then take this as currency to the insurer.
I agree that the whole issue is pretty odd. Being the innocent party in the accident I simply want the insurance company to put me back into a similar position to the one I was last week - either with my vehicle, or the market value required to purchase another. They're aware of this and say they can't do either, with the best option being the car and the settlement.
The whole issue with the repair is the insurance company's decision not to undergo it due to the unavailability (for the foreseen future) of the door. The approved repairer refuses to fit second hand parts (which is understandable due to them being an unknown quantity and the repercussions thereof).
It's the insurance company that is suggesting (and has done from the beginning) that I surf off to German eBay or similar and conduct all of the repairs myself - which I think is unreasonable to expect me to do!.
The vehicle is both reasonably rare (~20 in the UK) and an import from the Continent, although most body panels (doors included) are shared with a common LHD model.
-edit- I should add that after phoning the insurance company yesterday both to lodge a formal complaint and to state my position, they've done a U-turn regarding the hire car and I can keep it until further notice...
The whole issue with the repair is the insurance company's decision not to undergo it due to the unavailability (for the foreseen future) of the door. The approved repairer refuses to fit second hand parts (which is understandable due to them being an unknown quantity and the repercussions thereof).
It's the insurance company that is suggesting (and has done from the beginning) that I surf off to German eBay or similar and conduct all of the repairs myself - which I think is unreasonable to expect me to do!.
The vehicle is both reasonably rare (~20 in the UK) and an import from the Continent, although most body panels (doors included) are shared with a common LHD model.
-edit- I should add that after phoning the insurance company yesterday both to lodge a formal complaint and to state my position, they've done a U-turn regarding the hire car and I can keep it until further notice...
BarringtonBrown said:
I agree that the whole issue is pretty odd. Being the innocent party in the accident I simply want the insurance company to put me back into a similar position to the one I was last week - either with my vehicle, or the market value required to purchase another. They're aware of this and say they can't do either, with the best option being the car and the settlement.
The whole issue with the repair is the insurance company's decision not to undergo it due to the unavailability (for the foreseen future) of the door. The approved repairer refuses to fit second hand parts (which is understandable due to them being an unknown quantity and the repercussions thereof).
It's the insurance company that is suggesting (and has done from the beginning) that I surf off to German eBay or similar and conduct all of the repairs myself - which I think is unreasonable to expect me to do!.
The vehicle is both reasonably rare (~20 in the UK) and an import from the Continent, although most body panels (doors included) are shared with a common LHD model.
-edit- I should add that after phoning the insurance company yesterday both to lodge a formal complaint and to state my position, they've done a U-turn regarding the hire car and I can keep it until further notice...
Are you going to answer the questions that I asked earlier? By ignoring them it makes me think there is more to this than you're prepared to disclose, which will have a material effect on the situation we're trying to help you with.The whole issue with the repair is the insurance company's decision not to undergo it due to the unavailability (for the foreseen future) of the door. The approved repairer refuses to fit second hand parts (which is understandable due to them being an unknown quantity and the repercussions thereof).
It's the insurance company that is suggesting (and has done from the beginning) that I surf off to German eBay or similar and conduct all of the repairs myself - which I think is unreasonable to expect me to do!.
The vehicle is both reasonably rare (~20 in the UK) and an import from the Continent, although most body panels (doors included) are shared with a common LHD model.
-edit- I should add that after phoning the insurance company yesterday both to lodge a formal complaint and to state my position, they've done a U-turn regarding the hire car and I can keep it until further notice...
LoonR1 said:
Are you going to answer the questions that I asked earlier? By ignoring them it makes me think there is more to this than you're prepared to disclose, which will have a material effect on the situation we're trying to help you with.
LoonR1 said:
I'm baffled. Have I got this right? The car needs new doors, these doors are no longer manufactured? Or are they on back order? Is this a classic car or a modern but obsolete vehicle?
The doors are no longer manufactured. There's a waiting list for them and the manufacturer is unsure if they'll ever make any more. That's all I know.LoonR1 said:
My repair centres can fix pretty well anything so they must be a right mess. If so can you source any used but serviceable doors?
The outer door skins are pushed in from the collision, and it's warped the outer frame of the door in the process, so are U/S. The B&C pillars are fine.LoonR1 said:
Do you want the car back or do you want it written off?
I'd prefer it to be written off.LoonR1 said:
I know the insurer is the same company on both sides which is actually irrelevant but are you dealing with your insured policy or trying to fix it with the TPs policy?
I'm dealing with my insured policy.Right. so here are your options:
1. Source some recycled doors (the insurer should do this)
2. Repair the doors ( the insurer will decide if this is feasible)
3. If neither of the above are economically viable, then they should write off
That's it. Unless you want to keep the car, in which case their offer is fine.
They can't force you to keep the car against your wishes with a reduced payout. Are you trying to keep hold of the car as well as having it written off? If so then their offer is fair.
1. Source some recycled doors (the insurer should do this)
2. Repair the doors ( the insurer will decide if this is feasible)
3. If neither of the above are economically viable, then they should write off
That's it. Unless you want to keep the car, in which case their offer is fine.
They can't force you to keep the car against your wishes with a reduced payout. Are you trying to keep hold of the car as well as having it written off? If so then their offer is fair.
BarringtonBrown said:
Daily update.
They refuse to write it off and are intent on returning the car to me in its current unrepaired state, with a cheque for the cash settlement.
I assume I need to head down to the solicitors today then
Why solicitors? What do you think they can do? A simple complaint to YOUR insurers should suffice ie not trying to resolve this with the other side. Your insurers will resolve this exactly as I have outlined above a few times. They refuse to write it off and are intent on returning the car to me in its current unrepaired state, with a cheque for the cash settlement.
I assume I need to head down to the solicitors today then
LoonR1 said:
Why solicitors? What do you think they can do? A simple complaint to YOUR insurers should suffice ie not trying to resolve this with the other side. Your insurers will resolve this exactly as I have outlined above a few times.
I made a formal complaint to my insurance company on Friday. It was followed up this morning with the above conversation, saying that they couldn't do anything else. I notified the FO this morning who are going to look into it, but say it may take quite a while to resolve.In the mean time, can the insurance company (legally) take away the hire car and dump the damaged car outside my house? Having just moved house (the day after the accident!), I'm not sure if the new neighbours will appreciate it...
LoonR1 said:
Yes they can on both counts, whether they would is debatable though.
I think there is more th this story than you're letting on. Are you claiming off your policy or the other sides? Forget the fact that you are both insured with the same insurer as that is irrelevant.
There really isn't any more detail I can add. This is how it is! I think there is more th this story than you're letting on. Are you claiming off your policy or the other sides? Forget the fact that you are both insured with the same insurer as that is irrelevant.
I'm not sure whether I'm claiming off my insurance or the other party's - I assumed it was theirs as I don't have to pay an excess and I wasn't deemed to be at fault.
BarringtonBrown said:
There really isn't any more detail I can add. This is how it is!
I'm not sure whether I'm claiming off my insurance or the other party's - I assumed it was theirs as I don't have to pay an excess and I wasn't deemed to be at fault.
Are you in discussions with your insurer or theirs?I'm not sure whether I'm claiming off my insurance or the other party's - I assumed it was theirs as I don't have to pay an excess and I wasn't deemed to be at fault.
Put simply there is no way your insurers will be doing what your claiming they're doing.
LoonR1 said:
Are you in discussions with your insurer or theirs?
Put simply there is no way your insurers will be doing what your claiming they're doing.
It's my insurer. The guy I've been speaking to states that I'm claiming off their policy, although wouldn't say whether both the other party and me and the same contact at the insurance company.Put simply there is no way your insurers will be doing what your claiming they're doing.
As for 'there's no way ... etc', it actually is what they're doing. As far as I can see, and unless I find anything to the contrary, it seems they can do what they like!
Your answers aren't making sense. Either you are claiming off YOUR policy currently and it is YOUR insurers who are doing this. Or you are claiming off THEIR policy directly and it is THEIR insurers who are trying to so this. Your answer is ambiguous.
For info even if you share the same insurer there will be two different handlers dealing where neither can look at the others notes.
For info even if you share the same insurer there will be two different handlers dealing where neither can look at the others notes.
It's not really that ambiguous. It's my insurance guy. We're claiming off their insurance (same company). The complaints guy is as far as I know a universal complaints chap at the company and I don't really see how any of it is relevant to the decision that they've made.
It all seems like a waste of time. I might just fork out for a new car and let the Ombudsman deal with it.
It all seems like a waste of time. I might just fork out for a new car and let the Ombudsman deal with it.
BarringtonBrown said:
It's not really that ambiguous. It's my insurance guy. We're claiming off their insurance (same company). The complaints guy is as far as I know a universal complaints chap at the company and I don't really see how any of it is relevant to the decision that they've made.
It all seems like a waste of time. I might just fork out for a new car and let the Ombudsman deal with it.
You're clearly not getting this.It all seems like a waste of time. I might just fork out for a new car and let the Ombudsman deal with it.
1. You are claiming directly off the other side's insurance and NOT using your own policy. They have no contractual obligation to you. This is what I think you're doing
2. You are claiming off your own policy, with the contractual obligations within. They will subsequently recover their outlay form the other side. This is what you should be doing.
Which is it?
Also, the fact that both if you happen to have the same insurer is irrelevant. Thecomplaint will NOT be handled by the same person under any circumstances. There are very, very strict rules around this.
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