Money trouble with ex
Discussion
Du1point8- so yes I know what is right to do as it was an act of kindness they showed me and in my book to repay someones kindness it is the right thing to do.morally maybe to some people, to others no. But the question was now it is going to the court how does it stand with them. As I was unsure how they look at these things as clearly by the outbreak here it is not at all clear. Does someone realy have to repeat so many times on here? So I ask the question and I'm the smart arse, I think you need to look at a few of the others that have been let out loose on a keyboard,but saying that it is still school holidays.
like I said... it can be classed as a gift... but you make damn sure there is nothing linking you to anything that states otherwise otherwise if it comes to court you will be given a proper dressing down.
Its then just a question of if you can live with it as a gift of course... Ex left you for some reason and all their fault I would consider telling them to stuff it... you doing it to them, then I would be asking how close to the last 'gift' was the break up, just to make sure you were not fleecing them at the end of the relationship.
You are the only one that can make the decision, but it can go either way if you dont make your mind up and:
a) pay it all back as you know it was not a gift.
b) offer to pay some back as it was a gift and feel partially guilty about accepting it all as a gift even though they knew you couldnt pay them.
c) accept its a gift and move on and sort out the defence.
I personally hate it when someone calls it a gift as a monetary contact is not something you do in a relationship, you shouldnt have to, but Im seeing more and more the case for such things now...
Its then just a question of if you can live with it as a gift of course... Ex left you for some reason and all their fault I would consider telling them to stuff it... you doing it to them, then I would be asking how close to the last 'gift' was the break up, just to make sure you were not fleecing them at the end of the relationship.
You are the only one that can make the decision, but it can go either way if you dont make your mind up and:
a) pay it all back as you know it was not a gift.
b) offer to pay some back as it was a gift and feel partially guilty about accepting it all as a gift even though they knew you couldnt pay them.
c) accept its a gift and move on and sort out the defence.
I personally hate it when someone calls it a gift as a monetary contact is not something you do in a relationship, you shouldnt have to, but Im seeing more and more the case for such things now...
Du1point8- thanks for that last post.bit of usefull information/guidance. Everything seems to take the long way round before get an answer.I understans what you mean. All I'm saying is as soon as I pay anything,even a pound, that is then legal contract (I think, please correct if wrong) so then for her to carry it on to court still I will have all the court and legal fees. So if I offered or payed something this week could she refuse this payment, or accept it but still go through court
Du1point8- thanks for that last post.bit of usefull information/guidance. Everything on here just seems to take the long way round before get an answer.I understans what you mean. All I'm saying is as soon as I pay anything,even a pound, that is then legal contract (I think, please correct if wrong) so then for her to carry it on to court still I will have all the court and legal fees. So if I offered or payed something this week could she refuse this payment, or accept it but still go through court
hillbob said:
Du1point8- thanks for that last post.bit of usefull information/guidance. Everything seems to take the long way round before get an answer.I understans what you mean. All I'm saying is as soon as I pay anything,even a pound, that is then legal contract (I think, please correct if wrong) so then for her to carry it on to court still I will have all the court and legal fees. So if I offered or payed something this week could she refuse this payment, or accept it but still go through court
The moment you say the words... 'I know I owe you money' its an admission that you realise its not a gift.you dont need to offer to repay anything for it to be a loan.
As said you have chosen your path, make sure you stick to it and have nothing and know of nothing that can deviate you from it, otherwise you will be up s
t creek. Wonder if PTCOJ can be done at this level if caught lying in court?hillbob said:
how have I had plenty chances to pay when we was not in contact and I work away constantly for weeks on end? Please explain. I'm not trying to wash my hands of anything morally. I know what is right to do but don't want to be signing or offering anything morally if that makes it legally contracted if you get me. Surely when you don't realy know the ins and outs of something its better to be cautous regarding things such as paperwork you've never seen before and ask people who know a bit more than myself
You said your ex had applied for the money via moneyclaim. They will give you the opportunity to pay before making a judgement. It makes this very clear in the Moneyclaim paperwork you received.It is an entirely different thing if you don't feel you owe her, but you will have many chances to pay if you choose before a judgement.
Decide whether you intend to to pay her and then:
1)If you want to pay, pay her and tell Moneyclaim you have.
2)If you decide not to pay her, fill in your response on the Moneyclaim paperwork and say why you are not paying her.
No legal expert and no real experience of this stuff. However my understanding of moneyclaim is its normally one person to another rarely are solicitors involved and therefore legal costs are kept down as thats the whole ppoint.
I would wait it out and let the court decide depending on how much. Ie if its a mere 200 quid not worth risk of losing as court costs would be around that amount. 3-5k worth the risk of losing as if you win you can then set about things as you wish by repaying what you want as you wish.
It would also give you the upper hand morally. As in she felt the need to get all legal and then even though she lost you still repaid her some or all of what she perceived you owed her.
I would wait it out and let the court decide depending on how much. Ie if its a mere 200 quid not worth risk of losing as court costs would be around that amount. 3-5k worth the risk of losing as if you win you can then set about things as you wish by repaying what you want as you wish.
It would also give you the upper hand morally. As in she felt the need to get all legal and then even though she lost you still repaid her some or all of what she perceived you owed her.
You have received a claim form. That means that you have received a document which asks you to "acknowledge service" - make sure you send this in. The attached notes will explain what box to tick if you dispute the whole claim and I believe it will ask you why. In that part state the money was a gift. Or ask for a further 14 days to reply and then produce a longer defence which sets out why the money was a gift not a loan including that you have never been asked to pay the money back before and that you have not paid the money back.
Can we clear up things as I think they would make the legal and moral aspects much clearer
1) how much money did she give you and how wealthy is she?
(this is important as a millionaire giving you £10000 as a gift would be different someone of much lesser means doing the same)
2) under what circumstances did you break up?
(important from a moral point of view if for instance you cheated on her, dumped her but want to keep the money she leant you)
3) you said the money came from her business account?
Not something I would do as a gift if it was MY business, these gifts would have to be accounted for in the end of year company accounts. Large gifts from a business could be construed as attempting to avoid paying Corporation Tax on the profits. So if true would make me think they weren't gifts?
1) how much money did she give you and how wealthy is she?
(this is important as a millionaire giving you £10000 as a gift would be different someone of much lesser means doing the same)
2) under what circumstances did you break up?
(important from a moral point of view if for instance you cheated on her, dumped her but want to keep the money she leant you)
3) you said the money came from her business account?
Not something I would do as a gift if it was MY business, these gifts would have to be accounted for in the end of year company accounts. Large gifts from a business could be construed as attempting to avoid paying Corporation Tax on the profits. So if true would make me think they weren't gifts?
Also, how long did the relationship last for? Apols if I have missed this info above. The Court is more likely to say " no intention to create legal relations" if the relationship was of some duration and the parties were in a position analogous to marriage, but, if it was a short fling, the Court may more readily infer an intent to create legal relations.
The provider of the money would still, however, have to show that the money was given on the express basis that it was a loan, or that such is to be inferred from the conduct of the parties.
The provider of the money would still, however, have to show that the money was given on the express basis that it was a loan, or that such is to be inferred from the conduct of the parties.
Apologies if I miss answering any questions. Doing all this via phone internet. Was together about a year. First transaction 1-2 months after we met and then pretty much most months thereafter. Was a regular thing.would text messages prove anything in a case like this? Or if she had admitted cheating? I have no problem paying the money back, as it was a very nice thing of her to do, so apologies if anyone has got that impression I didn't want to.and people will now say why post then, well I posted because I know nothing of the legal side, so wasn't sure if I filled in the claim form agreeing to pay a set amount per month, is she then able to carry on to court?
That is a short relationship, so legal intent may be more readily inferred.
Text messages might be relevant evidence. What do they say?
The fact that your ex cheated on you is completely irrelevant to her financial claim. In which universe could that possibly be relevant to whether or not she lent you money?
You should negotiate. Offer an instalment plan if you wish. Court proceedings can continue unless and until a judgement is given or you reach a binding agreement.
An offer to pay made to the court will be taken as an admission of liability. Settlement negotiations are best conducted otherwise than through the court. Make it clear that any offer to compromise is made without prejudice and cannot be referred to in court.
Text messages might be relevant evidence. What do they say?
The fact that your ex cheated on you is completely irrelevant to her financial claim. In which universe could that possibly be relevant to whether or not she lent you money?
You should negotiate. Offer an instalment plan if you wish. Court proceedings can continue unless and until a judgement is given or you reach a binding agreement.
An offer to pay made to the court will be taken as an admission of liability. Settlement negotiations are best conducted otherwise than through the court. Make it clear that any offer to compromise is made without prejudice and cannot be referred to in court.
Well I never asked for it and always said no when offered to send me some.at times she maybe said how come your not going here or doing that,my response I can't I'm skint,her response I'll give/send you some. I'm not trying to avoid paying at all. Just not a clue on the legal side of things and the procedures and follow up to the claim form. As if I fill it in with an offer and she then refuses this offer and still takes me to court, well that's just hassle/expense nobody wants
hillbob said:
Well I never asked for it and always said no when offered to send me some.at times she maybe said how come your not going here or doing that,my response I can't I'm skint,her response I'll give/send you some. I'm not trying to avoid paying at all. Just not a clue on the legal side of things and the procedures and follow up to the claim form. As if I fill it in with an offer and she then refuses this offer and still takes me to court, well that's just hassle/expense nobody wants
So if you never wanted it then why did you keep the money?hillbob said:
Well I never asked for it and always said no when offered to send me some.at times she maybe said how come your not going here or doing that,my response I can't I'm skint,her response I'll give/send you some. I'm not trying to avoid paying at all. Just not a clue on the legal side of things and the procedures and follow up to the claim form. As if I fill it in with an offer and she then refuses this offer and still takes me to court, well that's just hassle/expense nobody wants
Still you didnt send the money back though and always kept it.You are still contradicting yourself here... 'Im not trying to avoid paying at all' then 'if I offer and she rejects, then that's just hassle/expense I dont want'...
As said, you ignored the claim and your Ex for a period of time long enough for it to get this far, you are not telling the whole story, just a twisted end part of yes, but, no, but yes, but no... Saying you are away for weeks on end with work doesnt sway, unless you are mining underground for all that time a phone and PC do work... if my father can contact my mother from the middle of a jungle at least once a week whilst away, you really cant claim 'oh I couldn't talk as a defence'...
So far you have for you:
1) you didnt ask for it.
2) you told her you didnt want it.
3) Most things in a relationship are a gift unless specified.
Against you...
1) You type like its not a gift.
2) You mention you want to pay, but dont want to be fleeced.... all the time in your replies.
3) you never gave the 'gifts' back despite not wanting them.
4) its from a business account.
5) you have ignored/not talked it through despite Ex taking time to contact you, which could and probably will look bad on you.
Unknowns:
1) was it ever declared anywhere else that is want not a gift (discussion, email, etc)?
2) Do you want to pay her, or is that guilt setting in, either you do or you don't, its not a 2 way street.
3) The claim form is simple... Why do you not think anything is owed... its not an exam, its a simple reply.
From the looks of it, its you not wanting to talk and sticking 2 fingers up at Ex... then it going through claims and you now think that something might get found out, maybe I can offer something, maybe they wont find out, what do I do now...
you have been advised to fill out the document to the best of your ability, but dont lie on the form as it can get found out, from the way you type there is something else.
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