355 and 360 annual running costs and advice
Discussion
Chaps,
Would any one be kind enough to give me a rough idea of annual running costs of a Ferrari 355 and also a 360?
Please assume 3,000 miles per year and car to be services through an independent garage.
Please assume ownership for 5 to 10 years, ie running costs to include items requiring attention intermittently, e.g. belts, tyres, clutches, engine work.
Also, do the spyder soft tops have a finite lifespan? I am sure these cost a lot to replace?
Many thanks indeed!
Would any one be kind enough to give me a rough idea of annual running costs of a Ferrari 355 and also a 360?
Please assume 3,000 miles per year and car to be services through an independent garage.
Please assume ownership for 5 to 10 years, ie running costs to include items requiring attention intermittently, e.g. belts, tyres, clutches, engine work.
Also, do the spyder soft tops have a finite lifespan? I am sure these cost a lot to replace?
Many thanks indeed!
Look at Mario49s profile. He has accurately documented his running of an F355.
I would say allow £5k per annum maintenance. People will say lower, but I think that is nonsense (unless you are an able and willing spanner man).
Rule of thumb: everytime you go to a garage for a minor repair or service the bill will be 4 figures.
Fixed price servicing: there will always be additional work to do which will bump up the bill significantly.
Also, expect a fairly chunky dealer spread unless you want to buy/sell privately (complete pain in the bum).
Personally, if you just want to buy a decent one off the shelf I would be heading to Nick Cartwirght (which is what I did). He preps to an extremely high standard and saves trekking around the UK only to be dissappointed.
I would say allow £5k per annum maintenance. People will say lower, but I think that is nonsense (unless you are an able and willing spanner man).
Rule of thumb: everytime you go to a garage for a minor repair or service the bill will be 4 figures.
Fixed price servicing: there will always be additional work to do which will bump up the bill significantly.
Also, expect a fairly chunky dealer spread unless you want to buy/sell privately (complete pain in the bum).
Personally, if you just want to buy a decent one off the shelf I would be heading to Nick Cartwirght (which is what I did). He preps to an extremely high standard and saves trekking around the UK only to be dissappointed.
£5000 seems a bit steep. Certainly possible but is that an average amount or just if you have bad luck?
I say that because I am currently looking at acquiring a 355 and the selling garage sent me copies of all invoices going back to 2002. Adding them up comes to £22'500 (although before sale no doubt the dealer will invest another £5000 for belts and big service). Still, that is more like £3000 a year. Which is still not exactly cheap!
I say that because I am currently looking at acquiring a 355 and the selling garage sent me copies of all invoices going back to 2002. Adding them up comes to £22'500 (although before sale no doubt the dealer will invest another £5000 for belts and big service). Still, that is more like £3000 a year. Which is still not exactly cheap!
Schnellmann said:
£5000 seems a bit steep. Certainly possible but is that an average amount or just if you have bad luck?
I say that because I am currently looking at acquiring a 355 and the selling garage sent me copies of all invoices going back to 2002. Adding them up comes to £22'500 (although before sale no doubt the dealer will invest another £5000 for belts and big service). Still, that is more like £3000 a year. Which is still not exactly cheap!
From my experience 4 years of owning one I'd say the following...I say that because I am currently looking at acquiring a 355 and the selling garage sent me copies of all invoices going back to 2002. Adding them up comes to £22'500 (although before sale no doubt the dealer will invest another £5000 for belts and big service). Still, that is more like £3000 a year. Which is still not exactly cheap!
If you budget for £3k you are quite likely to be dissappointed.
If you budget for £5k chances are you might be pleased.
Also, my other favourite quote...
A 360 is a better car, but an F355 is a better Ferrari.
How long is a piece of string???? In the case of the 355 Spider, it can be very long indeed. I ran one for 5 years. Loved it. Don't regret a single penny spent on it, but be under no illusions - 355's are brittle and need a significant amount of TLC. Overall, I'd say budget £3,000 pa for the routine stuff (annual servicing, tyres and the 3 yearly cambelt nightmare) and then have a contingency pot of up to £2k pa for the other unforseen stuff.
As has been noted above, there are lots of threads on 355 running costs for you to look at. My own personal experience of non service related maintenance costs included the following:-
- Regular front end re-sprays
- Clear plastic front end wrap if you want to avoid re-sprays
- Attending to the odd rust patch - e.g. wheel arches
- Manifolds
- ECUs
- Batteries
- Tyres (regular use and punctures) - every 2 years for me
- Various seal to cure leaks
- Various pipes (be especially careful about fuel pipes perishing and springing leaks - not good!)
- Door kick plates (they rust within seconds of fitting)
- Add other likely parts failures - 355s are getting on a bit now and mechanical bits don't last forever (e.g. clutches, diffs, gearboxes, electrics!
Plus other 'non essential' stuff but you will find it hard to resist doing anyway including:
- Tubi/Capristo exhaust
- Cat bypass pipes
- Brake pads/disks upgrades
- Tasty carbon garnish for interior parts and kick plates
- Weather proof car covers (even if car is stored indoors)
- Dehumdifier and running costs - 355s do rust...
Re the roof - it doesn't need replacing until it breaks. If it breaks, you will need a new mortgage (>£10k), so look after it religiously. I always made sure the top was up when the car was parked up, and I always made sure the roof was well lubed. Treat it with extreme care and it will be fine. You have been warned.
One saving grace is that the 355 was not an outrageously expensive car compared to today's Ferrari's. I think they retailed around £85k new when mine was built. This means the cost of parts can be ok unless you're really unlucky and do something substantial like lunch a gearbox. How things change...
As has been noted above, there are lots of threads on 355 running costs for you to look at. My own personal experience of non service related maintenance costs included the following:-
- Regular front end re-sprays
- Clear plastic front end wrap if you want to avoid re-sprays
- Attending to the odd rust patch - e.g. wheel arches
- Manifolds
- ECUs
- Batteries
- Tyres (regular use and punctures) - every 2 years for me
- Various seal to cure leaks
- Various pipes (be especially careful about fuel pipes perishing and springing leaks - not good!)
- Door kick plates (they rust within seconds of fitting)
- Add other likely parts failures - 355s are getting on a bit now and mechanical bits don't last forever (e.g. clutches, diffs, gearboxes, electrics!
Plus other 'non essential' stuff but you will find it hard to resist doing anyway including:
- Tubi/Capristo exhaust
- Cat bypass pipes
- Brake pads/disks upgrades
- Tasty carbon garnish for interior parts and kick plates
- Weather proof car covers (even if car is stored indoors)
- Dehumdifier and running costs - 355s do rust...
Re the roof - it doesn't need replacing until it breaks. If it breaks, you will need a new mortgage (>£10k), so look after it religiously. I always made sure the top was up when the car was parked up, and I always made sure the roof was well lubed. Treat it with extreme care and it will be fine. You have been warned.
One saving grace is that the 355 was not an outrageously expensive car compared to today's Ferrari's. I think they retailed around £85k new when mine was built. This means the cost of parts can be ok unless you're really unlucky and do something substantial like lunch a gearbox. How things change...
i can tell you from experience of both... 360 is cheaper to run, but be under no illusions both cars are getting on a bit age wise and like any old car, it needs items replaced over and above known weak points like ball joints and manifolds.
the 355 has more soul no question about it but 360 is faster and more reliable.
depends what you want out of it.
the 355 has more soul no question about it but 360 is faster and more reliable.
depends what you want out of it.
I cover a similar mileage in my 360, in 4 years of ownership I'd say the average is 2k a year, this has included cambelts etc in its time.
As mentioned, some years may be more, some less. On the whole its a solid car and I've had no major issues, as mentioned previously buy one that is well looked after, paying an extra few k initially will save you alot later.
Feeling the urge to change the car as I've never had any car this long but it just ticks all the boxes!
As mentioned, some years may be more, some less. On the whole its a solid car and I've had no major issues, as mentioned previously buy one that is well looked after, paying an extra few k initially will save you alot later.
Feeling the urge to change the car as I've never had any car this long but it just ticks all the boxes!
Vroom2 said:
Sincere thanks guys for all the detail - fantastic.
No such things as a bargain Ferrari I guess!
Makes my 996 Carrera 4S akin to running a matchbox car!
Again, ask Mario49. He has had both an F355 Spider and a 996 C4S.No such things as a bargain Ferrari I guess!
Makes my 996 Carrera 4S akin to running a matchbox car!
I bet you can get massive bills on a 996 C4S. Therefore, you might as well go "all in".
;-)
wineman02 said:
I have a 996 C4S and a 328 gts. The Ferrari cost £1500 last year in servicing inc a cam belt change. If you get a good one they are solid and reliable and not as scary to service as a 355/360.
True. I had a 328 before I got the 355. WIthout doubt, the 328 was a cheaper ownership proposition...jdw1234 said:
I bet you can get massive bills on a 996 C4S. Therefore, you might as well go "all in".
Mmmmm, IMS, D chunk and bore scoring aren't cheap fixes!A 360 annual will be about £600 and. 3 yearly belt/mileage service will be £1500 to £2k. With tyres, clutches, brakes and changing what breaks,I'd say an average of 2 -3k per year if you start with a good one, plus insurance and if you drive it much, alot of fuel. It could be higher if you aren't capable of doing anything yourself.
I bank £250 a month into a stallion fund for service and insurance but after a year it is in overdraft as I've just changed the wheels and tyres.
Getting sucked into things it doesn't technically need like wheels (!) zorsts, new TCUs, re-trimming, detailing and 'whilst in there I did' can soon rack up.
They are getting older so items like radiators etc will be next. Manifolds, a known 355 weak spot seem much better on the 360.
My man maths tells me I'm trading maintenance cost for low depreciation though and if you can get your head around that you will be fine. If you think it will cost you nothing to own it will be disappointing.
Edited by mike01606 on Tuesday 16th April 18:47
guess i have been pretty lucky!
i am on my 7th year of F355 ownership firstly with a '97 spider, and now a very late '99 fiorano edition spider.
most expensive service year was with an well respected independant up this way and was £3k...that covered all belts, plugs, filters, cams refurbed, both driveshaft boots replaced, new battery, sport exhaust i supplied fitted and other bits and bobs...
every other service has been at Ferrari edinburgh; indeed last year was offered annual service for £499 all in which i had agreed will be honoured this year again... there were a few advisories such as the ever replacing d/s boots again and a few other small items that i dealt with myself during the winter.
that has been the norm for the rest of the years for service costs.
i have an agreed valuation classic insurance policy that is about £400, road tax £200 odd...
i cannot get my head around the £5k a year costs that always get put out there when prospective new owners enquire...
i am on my 7th year of F355 ownership firstly with a '97 spider, and now a very late '99 fiorano edition spider.
most expensive service year was with an well respected independant up this way and was £3k...that covered all belts, plugs, filters, cams refurbed, both driveshaft boots replaced, new battery, sport exhaust i supplied fitted and other bits and bobs...
every other service has been at Ferrari edinburgh; indeed last year was offered annual service for £499 all in which i had agreed will be honoured this year again... there were a few advisories such as the ever replacing d/s boots again and a few other small items that i dealt with myself during the winter.
that has been the norm for the rest of the years for service costs.
i have an agreed valuation classic insurance policy that is about £400, road tax £200 odd...
i cannot get my head around the £5k a year costs that always get put out there when prospective new owners enquire...
Your costs will depend entirely on the condition of the car you buy and the garage where you choose to have the work done. You're looking at a Ferrari, so you're prepared to stomach running costs that are a bit more than those of a Ford Focus. However, I have a mate with a boring E46 BMW 3 series whose annual servicing costs aren't that much cheaper than my 355. I'm about six months into Ferrari ownership. I bought my 355 privately, in need of an engine-out belt service. It's currently in the garage and the bill for that work, plus a few other bits, looks like being close to £3k. As well as the major service, the car requires:
- cam cover gaskets (weeping)
- left and right inner drive shaft gaiters (split)
- front engine mounts (pancaked)
- 2 water pipes (perished)
- new flexible brake lines (perished)
- new front hard lines (rust)
- new centre under tray (ran over something)
- some welding to the engine subframe (rust)
My car has done 45k miles and the history file shows that it has had money spent on it when it has needed it, but I don't think it's a particularly long list - it shouldn't need anything else bar minor servicing for a good few years after this.
As for tyres and clutches, that totally depends on how you drive it. Clutches can be sorted relatively cheaply these days by specialists like Mad Dog (haven't used them... yet)
- cam cover gaskets (weeping)
- left and right inner drive shaft gaiters (split)
- front engine mounts (pancaked)
- 2 water pipes (perished)
- new flexible brake lines (perished)
- new front hard lines (rust)
- new centre under tray (ran over something)
- some welding to the engine subframe (rust)
My car has done 45k miles and the history file shows that it has had money spent on it when it has needed it, but I don't think it's a particularly long list - it shouldn't need anything else bar minor servicing for a good few years after this.
As for tyres and clutches, that totally depends on how you drive it. Clutches can be sorted relatively cheaply these days by specialists like Mad Dog (haven't used them... yet)
you have been lucky or Ive been very unlucky. Perhaps you can do some of the work yourself saving some money as well.
better to go in with eyes wide open
better to go in with eyes wide open
355spiderguy said:
guess i have been pretty lucky!
i am on my 7th year of F355 ownership firstly with a '97 spider, and now a very late '99 fiorano edition spider.
most expensive service year was with an well respected independant up this way and was £3k...that covered all belts, plugs, filters, cams refurbed, both driveshaft boots replaced, new battery, sport exhaust i supplied fitted and other bits and bobs...
every other service has been at Ferrari edinburgh; indeed last year was offered annual service for £499 all in which i had agreed will be honoured this year again... there were a few advisories such as the ever replacing d/s boots again and a few other small items that i dealt with myself during the winter.
that has been the norm for the rest of the years for service costs.
i have an agreed valuation classic insurance policy that is about £400, road tax £200 odd...
i cannot get my head around the £5k a year costs that always get put out there when prospective new owners enquire...
i am on my 7th year of F355 ownership firstly with a '97 spider, and now a very late '99 fiorano edition spider.
most expensive service year was with an well respected independant up this way and was £3k...that covered all belts, plugs, filters, cams refurbed, both driveshaft boots replaced, new battery, sport exhaust i supplied fitted and other bits and bobs...
every other service has been at Ferrari edinburgh; indeed last year was offered annual service for £499 all in which i had agreed will be honoured this year again... there were a few advisories such as the ever replacing d/s boots again and a few other small items that i dealt with myself during the winter.
that has been the norm for the rest of the years for service costs.
i have an agreed valuation classic insurance policy that is about £400, road tax £200 odd...
i cannot get my head around the £5k a year costs that always get put out there when prospective new owners enquire...
Since I seem to have been mentioned a bit in this thread already ref 355 servicing, I might as well chip in so you can have it from the horse's mouth!
About £3k on servicing/maintenance/consumables per year on average for 5k miles per year is what I estimated and pretty much what I ended up paying. BUT, bear in mind that a lot of it was done by a mechanic who only charges half (or now just over) what independent specialists charge for his labour rate, and only a third of main what dealers will do you for. Sooo, if you went to a specialist the whole time and they replaced a few bits that could have actually been repaired with a little extra effort, that increased labour rate and the added Ferrari tax for the parts, you could be knocking on the door of £4k per year. Equally, if you spannered a lot yourself, you might average out at £2k/year.
On top of that, you also want to have a a few more £k in reserve that while not expecting to have to spend it, you need to be able to throw at the car should something bigger go.
I'm sure there are many people out there who pay a lot less for their servicing on average, but sooner or later their luck (or the person who owns it next) will run out. Stuff gets old and/or wears out, there are no miracle cars that somehow have more durable/longer lasting parts.
IMHO, if I was to buy again and if you want to minimise your running costs on say a 355/360, you need to ignore mileage completely (buy cheap, sell cheap, buy expensive etc etc)) and instead go out and find the car with the biggest fistful of receipts you can find for mechanical work (mine had had £13k's worth from Rardley 2 years before I'd bought it), preferably including as many of the common issues as possible. Then get it inspected to check whether there are any imminent catastrophic failures in the offing. Then buy
Anything that has only had scheduled servicing/maintenance done (say £1-1.5k per year) with no recent history of extras being done should be left well alone....think of it like a reverse slot machine that hasn't "paid out" yet.
About £3k on servicing/maintenance/consumables per year on average for 5k miles per year is what I estimated and pretty much what I ended up paying. BUT, bear in mind that a lot of it was done by a mechanic who only charges half (or now just over) what independent specialists charge for his labour rate, and only a third of main what dealers will do you for. Sooo, if you went to a specialist the whole time and they replaced a few bits that could have actually been repaired with a little extra effort, that increased labour rate and the added Ferrari tax for the parts, you could be knocking on the door of £4k per year. Equally, if you spannered a lot yourself, you might average out at £2k/year.
On top of that, you also want to have a a few more £k in reserve that while not expecting to have to spend it, you need to be able to throw at the car should something bigger go.
I'm sure there are many people out there who pay a lot less for their servicing on average, but sooner or later their luck (or the person who owns it next) will run out. Stuff gets old and/or wears out, there are no miracle cars that somehow have more durable/longer lasting parts.
IMHO, if I was to buy again and if you want to minimise your running costs on say a 355/360, you need to ignore mileage completely (buy cheap, sell cheap, buy expensive etc etc)) and instead go out and find the car with the biggest fistful of receipts you can find for mechanical work (mine had had £13k's worth from Rardley 2 years before I'd bought it), preferably including as many of the common issues as possible. Then get it inspected to check whether there are any imminent catastrophic failures in the offing. Then buy
Anything that has only had scheduled servicing/maintenance done (say £1-1.5k per year) with no recent history of extras being done should be left well alone....think of it like a reverse slot machine that hasn't "paid out" yet.Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff