UKIP - The Future
Discussion
Wombat3 said:
Globs said:
Wombat3 said:
Paid up party membership numbers are an irrelevance for all parties now and certainly no indicator of electoral fortunes - that much has been demonstrated all across Europe.
How convenient, looking at tory membership figures!!!
Globs said:
Wombat3 said:
Globs said:
Wombat3 said:
Paid up party membership numbers are an irrelevance for all parties now and certainly no indicator of electoral fortunes - that much has been demonstrated all across Europe.
How convenient, looking at tory membership figures!!!As usual you are trying to manufacture something out of nothing - and you had minimal credibility to start with....! (
)Wombat3 said:
Ah , back to rich Tories don't care about little people and eat babies b
ks again?
Woohoo four councillors out of how many across the country?
The only people who can knife Cameron are the 1922 committee. They'd probably want to have a credible alternative candidate first.....
Your link to the Spanish article does't work. As above - where is the English version? Without it there is nothing to discuss on it.
As to Lord Astor - he can say what he likes - so can Ken clark - and so will Mrs Bone. The PM's position is quite clear, the current position is unacceptable to the degree that leaving is now a serious option unless we can drag the EU back to being a trading block only. That is in fact the correct position (and indeed the UKIP position). Were it solely a trading block then we should absolutely be in the EU, but it isn't (and nor is it likely to be).
Quite obviously he knows that will be almost impossible to achieve but, as a responsible PM and in order to permanently settle the argument in the UK (because whether you like it or not, there are plenty of people who disagree with you on it) he has to try and achieve the best outcome (i.e. a trading block.).
Its honestly pathetic the way people are jumping up and down on this & seeking to avoid a structured and democratic process. ALmost all of that is coming from the eurosceptic camp - one might almost think you didn't actually want to risk having a referendum at all?
I don't think it will be that hard to get out of the EU at all. Tory government in 2015, vote in 2017, End.
Any other option will take not less than 7-10 years to get back to the same position IMO.
Ah back to misrepresenting the other guys argument?ks again? Woohoo four councillors out of how many across the country?
The only people who can knife Cameron are the 1922 committee. They'd probably want to have a credible alternative candidate first.....
Your link to the Spanish article does't work. As above - where is the English version? Without it there is nothing to discuss on it.
As to Lord Astor - he can say what he likes - so can Ken clark - and so will Mrs Bone. The PM's position is quite clear, the current position is unacceptable to the degree that leaving is now a serious option unless we can drag the EU back to being a trading block only. That is in fact the correct position (and indeed the UKIP position). Were it solely a trading block then we should absolutely be in the EU, but it isn't (and nor is it likely to be).
Quite obviously he knows that will be almost impossible to achieve but, as a responsible PM and in order to permanently settle the argument in the UK (because whether you like it or not, there are plenty of people who disagree with you on it) he has to try and achieve the best outcome (i.e. a trading block.).
Its honestly pathetic the way people are jumping up and down on this & seeking to avoid a structured and democratic process. ALmost all of that is coming from the eurosceptic camp - one might almost think you didn't actually want to risk having a referendum at all?
I don't think it will be that hard to get out of the EU at all. Tory government in 2015, vote in 2017, End.
Any other option will take not less than 7-10 years to get back to the same position IMO.
Edited by Wombat3 on Thursday 16th May 22:12
I don't get it - you seem able to string words together in a manner that suggests a reasonable level of intelligence, yet you stoop so low?
Wombat3 said:
Ah , back to rich Tories don't care about little people and eat babies bks again?
It's almost redundant - but I'll type it - I didn't say that nor anything close to that.ks again? The link to the article in Spanish worked fine last time I looked, well enough for another poster to view it on their phone.
As for attempting to get a trading block - this is just disingenuous nonsense - much like your accusations of perverting democratic process.
But then again this cognitive dissonance is something I have come to expect from you - as you suggest that rather than voting for UKIP whose policies I support, I should vote for Dave whose policy is to fight heart and soul to remain a vassal state of an undemocratic EU Federation.
rudecherub said:
As for attempting to get a trading block - this is just disingenuous nonsense - much like your accusations of perverting democratic process.
But then again this cognitive dissonance is something I have come to expect from you - as you suggest that rather than voting for UKIP whose policies I support, I should vote for Dave whose policy is to fight heart and soul to remain a vassal state of an undemocratic EU Federation.
Ya just don't get it do you?But then again this cognitive dissonance is something I have come to expect from you - as you suggest that rather than voting for UKIP whose policies I support, I should vote for Dave whose policy is to fight heart and soul to remain a vassal state of an undemocratic EU Federation.
If we are going to settle this f
king thing in a way that it stays settled then it has to be done in a way that will allow everybody to be told to shut up up and accept it after the event. If he doesn't try to renegotiate the thing the Europhiles will still be bhing about it (and probably trying to engineer re-entry to the EU) for decades afterwards.As to voting, I am afraid I am a bit more cynical (and realistic)about this. I will use my vote to try to bring about what I think is the best and most realistically achievable outcome. It may not be my ideal outcome, but if its the best we can realistically get then that's where I'm going with it.
The simple facts are that we will not have a UKIP gov't in 2015 and the only other way to have a referendum on the EU which, combined with some better than average economic management, is top of my wish list, is to put a Tory Government back in Downing Street.
If you want the thing to head further right then 2020 is the time for that.
2015 is about making sure we keep going forward and don't end up back in 2008.
Outcomes are all that matters (to me). Risking the outcome to "make a point of principle" may well feel very noble in 2015. By 2016 I'd personally feel like a complete t
t if we ended up with a Labour or Lib/Lab government & I'd contributed to bring that about.Wombat3 said:
By 2016 I'd personally feel like a complete tt if we ended up with a Labour or Lib/Lab government & I'd contributed to bring that about.
You won't end up with a labour government. Or a 'liberal'(sic) one, or even a tory one.t if we ended up with a Labour or Lib/Lab government & I'd contributed to bring that about.You'll end up with an EU one and then you'll be f
ked, as will all of us.You really don't get it, do you?
Wombat3 said:
Globs said:
Wombat3 said:
Globs said:
Wombat3 said:
Paid up party membership numbers are an irrelevance for all parties now and certainly no indicator of electoral fortunes - that much has been demonstrated all across Europe.
How convenient, looking at tory membership figures!!!As usual you are trying to manufacture something out of nothing - and you had minimal credibility to start with....! (
)| Year | Electorate | Voted | Cons | Labour | Lib Dem | Liberal | SDP | Alliance | UKIP |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2010 | 45.6 | 29.7 | 10.6 | 8.6 | 6.8 | . | . | . | 0.9 |
| 2005 | 44.2 | 27.1 | 8.8 | 9.8 | 6.0 | . | . | . | . |
| 2001 | 44.4 | 26.4 | 8.4 | 10.7 | 4.7 | . | . | . | . |
| 1997 | 43.8 | 31.3 | 9.6 | 13.6 | 5.2 | . | . | . | . |
| 1992 | 43.3 | 33.6 | 14 | 11.6 | 6 | . | . | . | . |
| 1987 | 43.2 | 32.5 | 13.8 | 10 | . | 4.2 | 3.2 | 7.3 | . |
| 1983 | 42.2 | 30.7 | 13 | 8.5 | . | 4.2 | 3.6 | 7.8 | . |
Rolling reminder, 10.6 million votes for Cons in 2010, with a one eyed goalie looking the other way and the rest of the defence stood over by the corner flag wetting themselves laughing how they'd fixed the goal post sizes when nobody was watching and had already spent all the gate money.
Even with 10.6 million there were still over 3 million votes missing in action. More are disappearing over the horizon every day.
In 2015, the way the Cons are going, they will be lucky to get over the 8.4 in 2001.
Labour will, I think hold their vote, plus/minus, those that they lose will be replaced by Lib Dem deserters.
Lib Dems will collapse to a useless rump, even more useless than they are now.
fwiw that's my prediction 2 years ahead, but a week is a long time, never mind two years.
But it still leaves a hell of a lot of disenchanted votes looking for a home.
Of course there is always the argument that overall numbers don't matter it is the key marginals, but there has been a partial sea change which can only grow and change the marginals map.
Written Dec 2012
There are some links in the blog that I hope people find interesting.
Edited by FiF on Friday 17th May 01:52
Wombat3 said:
As to voting, I am afraid I am a bit more cynical (and realistic)about this. I will use my vote to try to bring about what I think is the best and most realistically achievable outcome. It may not be my ideal outcome, but if its the best we can realistically get then that's where I'm going with it.
Which is one of the reason we have such utter st in westministerAs many folk look at the options in front of them and think "i really like that thing but i'm voting for tory/labour to keep labour/tory out"
Sorry i've got one vote and it makes f
k all difference n the grand scheme of things so i'm not prepared to throw it away. s2art said:
fluffnik said:
Really odd. Do the Scots not understand the difference between the BNP and UKIP. Why is that?Stay out of Scotland, deadbeat. Get your ugly f
kin' gold-brickin' ass out of our community...ViperPict said:
s2art said:
fluffnik said:
Really odd. Do the Scots not understand the difference between the BNP and UKIP. Why is that?Stay out of Scotland, deadbeat. Get your ugly f
kin' gold-brickin' ass out of our community...ViperPict said:
Simoid - did you see the response that Farage got in Scotland today? I'm genuinely proud of my country for that! Seriously, that clearly shows the difference between England and Scotland in terms of politics...
There will be UKIP folk canvassing up here soon - I relish the chance to 'communicate' with them!
He is proud of people shouting abuse and trying to attack someoneThere will be UKIP folk canvassing up here soon - I relish the chance to 'communicate' with them!
McWigglebum4th said:
ViperPict said:
s2art said:
fluffnik said:
Really odd. Do the Scots not understand the difference between the BNP and UKIP. Why is that?Stay out of Scotland, deadbeat. Get your ugly f
kin' gold-brickin' ass out of our community...ViperPict said:
Simoid - did you see the response that Farage got in Scotland today? I'm genuinely proud of my country for that! Seriously, that clearly shows the difference between England and Scotland in terms of politics...
There will be UKIP folk canvassing up here soon - I relish the chance to 'communicate' with them!
He is proud of people shouting abuse and trying to attack someoneThere will be UKIP folk canvassing up here soon - I relish the chance to 'communicate' with them!
ViperPict said:
Pathetic Wobbley Arse. No one was trying to assault him! People up here are passionate about keeping rubbish out of our country. More than happy he got this reception. Democracy in action!
No, democracy in action is elections and the free and open campaigning that preceeds them. Shouting people down, blocking their path and calling people "Nazi racist scum" is just plain old thuggery. AJS- said:
ViperPict said:
Pathetic Wobbley Arse. No one was trying to assault him! People up here are passionate about keeping rubbish out of our country. More than happy he got this reception. Democracy in action!
No, democracy in action is elections and the free and open campaigning that preceeds them. Shouting people down, blocking their path and calling people "Nazi racist scum" is just plain old thuggery. ViperPict said:
s2art said:
fluffnik said:
Really odd. Do the Scots not understand the difference between the BNP and UKIP. Why is that?Stay out of Scotland, deadbeat. Get your ugly f
kin' gold-brickin' ass out of our community...k me, our resident xenophobe is here. 
Independence, a good thing or a bad thing?
Guam said:
ViperPict said:
The right to public demonstration is part of democracy. There was no violence, just a lot of heartfelt sentiment!
Comimg from a bunch of Anglophobic idiots, I dont think those levelling the accusation are in any position to make those allegations, Salmonds admissions about Europe gave the game away, take your hypocrisy back to the independence thread.It is interesting that the Scots were verbally attacking someone, who wants for the UK what they claim to want for themselves <except they really dont apparrently>.
ViperPict said:
AJS- said:
ViperPict said:
Pathetic Wobbley Arse. No one was trying to assault him! People up here are passionate about keeping rubbish out of our country. More than happy he got this reception. Democracy in action!
No, democracy in action is elections and the free and open campaigning that preceeds them. Shouting people down, blocking their path and calling people "Nazi racist scum" is just plain old thuggery. Some people
ViperPict said:
The right to public demonstration is part of democracy. There was no violence, just a lot of heartfelt sentiment!
article said:
Bar staff were forced to clear the pub and the protest spilled outside obstructing Mr Farage's exit.
The Ukip leader attempted to make an escape by taxi but protesters blocked its path.
Police eventually escorted Mr Farage back into the pub and barricaded the doors against protesters.
Mr Farage was finally removed from the scene in a police riot van at around 5.40pm.
I should imagine something would be said about the EDL pulling a similar stunt on someone they disagreed with.The Ukip leader attempted to make an escape by taxi but protesters blocked its path.
Police eventually escorted Mr Farage back into the pub and barricaded the doors against protesters.
Mr Farage was finally removed from the scene in a police riot van at around 5.40pm.
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