Still a lot of rubbish out there
Discussion
that's the point for me a lot of show cars, even at the lower levels of marque (to some) and show quality are not used and some of the higher standard show cars couldn't be used in show standard (if what I've heard is true)
what somebody does with their car is their own business but personally I prefer to see a classic car that is used and if it's in a good show standard too even more impressive but a classic car that looks well and regularly used and has hundreds of thousands of miles with perhaps the odd change of major component to keep it running is more impressive to me
also having been to shows for over 20 years I have tended to find, in my personal experience and to my personal opinion, that many owners with show cars are snotty, nerdy, superior and unfriendly types to others unless they are an expert on the shower's particular favourite model and spec level
for the last 16 years I've only attended shows where non-motoring* or aircraft* charities will get some sort of fund raising and better still shows where I and my car will not be static but out on runs taking show attendees as passengers for 10 mile rides outside the show for their donation to children's charities, such as done by the Sporting Bears Dream Rides - http://sportingbears.co.uk/index.php/view/cat/17/d...
note: I've nothing against motoring or aircraft charities and have even occasionally donated to them but personally generally I don't want to fund raise for them
I've also won a prize at a show for one of my cars but that's another story
what somebody does with their car is their own business but personally I prefer to see a classic car that is used and if it's in a good show standard too even more impressive but a classic car that looks well and regularly used and has hundreds of thousands of miles with perhaps the odd change of major component to keep it running is more impressive to me
also having been to shows for over 20 years I have tended to find, in my personal experience and to my personal opinion, that many owners with show cars are snotty, nerdy, superior and unfriendly types to others unless they are an expert on the shower's particular favourite model and spec level
for the last 16 years I've only attended shows where non-motoring* or aircraft* charities will get some sort of fund raising and better still shows where I and my car will not be static but out on runs taking show attendees as passengers for 10 mile rides outside the show for their donation to children's charities, such as done by the Sporting Bears Dream Rides - http://sportingbears.co.uk/index.php/view/cat/17/d...
note: I've nothing against motoring or aircraft charities and have even occasionally donated to them but personally generally I don't want to fund raise for them
I've also won a prize at a show for one of my cars but that's another story
I've won awards as well!
One year I got a "Dirtiest heap" award and the following year at the same show, but with a different car, I was awarded "Rustiest hulk". Both awards were won with no prior preparation being carried out
However, contrary to how that may appear my vehicles are maintained to the highest level that I can manage on my budget and taking into account other drains on my, distinctly limited, income. I've often swapped vehicles with others and found that their immaculate example is no where near as good to drive as my somewhat shabbier one, I wouldn't conclude from that tho' that all shiny cars are bad and all tatty cars are good......... and that Herald looks a right shed...
One year I got a "Dirtiest heap" award and the following year at the same show, but with a different car, I was awarded "Rustiest hulk". Both awards were won with no prior preparation being carried out
However, contrary to how that may appear my vehicles are maintained to the highest level that I can manage on my budget and taking into account other drains on my, distinctly limited, income. I've often swapped vehicles with others and found that their immaculate example is no where near as good to drive as my somewhat shabbier one, I wouldn't conclude from that tho' that all shiny cars are bad and all tatty cars are good......... and that Herald looks a right shed...
yeap, as I put earlier -
same with most of my previous classic cars they were probably not always up to full show standards but probably always in better maintained mechanical condition and a lot better to drive especially in a spirited manor
nta16 said:
DocArbathnot said:
However if I go to a show I want to see presentable well maintained vehicles.
I bet my tatty Midget would be considered presentable by the general public and a much larger bet that my daily use car is better maintained than the vast majority of show carsI front up at car shows in a rusty silver Maestro with a rusty metallic blue bonnet - the paint on the front wings is flat and blistered, and the paintwork on the front bumper and roof is very flat plus there are rusty spots and patches elsewhere in various places.
It's patinaed, having stood in a garden for around a decade (and has been on fire under the bonnet at least once due to fuel leaks, hence the blistered paint on the front wings plus unoriginal bonnet) - but it's also left hand drive and its digidash 'speaks' 4 languages because it is LHD and was originally sold in Germany...
It's an MG Maestro 1600 with twin Webers, left hand drive - and unique in the UK.
If in doubt, read the info the owners attach to the cars - and I'd put money on patinaed classics being the next show winners
.
They're rubbish, these tatty cars at shows
...
It's patinaed, having stood in a garden for around a decade (and has been on fire under the bonnet at least once due to fuel leaks, hence the blistered paint on the front wings plus unoriginal bonnet) - but it's also left hand drive and its digidash 'speaks' 4 languages because it is LHD and was originally sold in Germany...
It's an MG Maestro 1600 with twin Webers, left hand drive - and unique in the UK.
If in doubt, read the info the owners attach to the cars - and I'd put money on patinaed classics being the next show winners
.They're rubbish, these tatty cars at shows
...aw51 121565 said:
I front up at car shows in a rusty silver Maestro with a rusty metallic blue bonnet - the paint on the front wings is flat and blistered, and the paintwork on the front bumper and roof is very flat plus there are rusty spots and patches elsewhere in various places.
It's patinaed, having stood in a garden for around a decade (and has been on fire under the bonnet at least once due to fuel leaks, hence the blistered paint on the front wings plus unoriginal bonnet) - but it's also left hand drive and its digidash 'speaks' 4 languages because it is LHD and was originally sold in Germany...
It's an MG Maestro 1600 with twin Webers, left hand drive - and unique in the UK.
If in doubt, read the info the owners attach to the cars - and I'd put money on patinaed classics being the next show winners .
They're rubbish, these tatty cars at shows ...
Don't worry about the rust; they were like that when they were new! You can say hand on heart it's an original example.It's patinaed, having stood in a garden for around a decade (and has been on fire under the bonnet at least once due to fuel leaks, hence the blistered paint on the front wings plus unoriginal bonnet) - but it's also left hand drive and its digidash 'speaks' 4 languages because it is LHD and was originally sold in Germany...
It's an MG Maestro 1600 with twin Webers, left hand drive - and unique in the UK.
If in doubt, read the info the owners attach to the cars - and I'd put money on patinaed classics being the next show winners
.They're rubbish, these tatty cars at shows
...J
Blackpuddin said:
Luckily there's room for all sorts. Chap living near to me has one of these, in this colour:
He drives it everywhere and it never looks like anything other than a 2-3 year old car (it's actually 40+ years old). No rust anywhere, but it's not primped up, it's just clean. The sort of car you'd want to ask for first refusal on.
That is fabulous.He drives it everywhere and it never looks like anything other than a 2-3 year old car (it's actually 40+ years old). No rust anywhere, but it's not primped up, it's just clean. The sort of car you'd want to ask for first refusal on.
Hooli said:
ClassicMotorNut said:
I get pretty pissed of when I see the Mondeo and Galaxy owners' clubs at the Bromley Pageant of Motoring, but I just pay no attention to them.
I feel the same & as for the bloody chrysler PT cruiser club... FFS, it's a car show not a skip display.I always used to attend Gaydon's Supercar Sunday but a few years ago they started letting in MX5s followed by Caterhams and IIRC Pumas.
I love MX5s and Caterhams but in no way are they Supercars.
Needless to say as the non supercars increased in numbers the supercar owners stayed away.
V8RX7 said:
I think organizers ought to stick to what the show is supposed to be.
That was my point really. PT Cruisers aren't classics, they aren't old enough for a start. They are just a daily banger for people with no taste. I'd expect then at a normal car show not one for old classic cars.Hooli said:
That was my point really. PT Cruisers aren't classics, they aren't old enough for a start. They are just a daily banger for people with no taste. I'd expect then at a normal car show not one for old classic cars.
yes but looking at it from an organizers point of view - almost all of that type of car and club will turn up if it rains many classic car owners wont even turn up if the forecast is bad at the start of the week even if the forecast turn out to be wrong - many garage queens (not all) can't get their paintwork, chamois and probably hair or hats even dampenedas a vast generalisation, many classic car owners that show their cars are whinging and ungrateful even if they're given free entry to the shows and other entertainments there gaining a great day out for their family, friends - and themselves if most of them weren't so needy or egotistical
I base this on 20+ years of attending classic shows
I've had enough of cleaning cars and keeping them mint.
I've just spent the last 3 yrs restoring my S 1 Etype to perfection....every single nut and bolt, wire etc etc
Now I don't want to use it.....madness
I have just bought another Etype that I have been ragging around in which I don't feel bothered about and I love it
I've just spent the last 3 yrs restoring my S 1 Etype to perfection....every single nut and bolt, wire etc etc
Now I don't want to use it.....madness
I have just bought another Etype that I have been ragging around in which I don't feel bothered about and I love it
This is one of our classics. Bought for not much in 2010, a secondhand gearbox thrown in it and some new shoes along with some other small jobs and we get to where it is now. The previous owners respray was crap, the chrome is not brilliant and it has rust and filler in the wings. But it goes to the coast often and is taken to shows/runs. Should we be not allowed to turn up? We are going on the EYTCC's East Coast run on the 9th but should we banned from it? It is our pride and joy and is well looked after but is not perfect. If everything had to be perfect to show, shows would be small events and probably slightly boring.
I too should be banned from shows in my Rover 2000TC then, because it is not concourse, far from it. It should be said though, that it is my first car, and I love her just the way she is, sure, the paintworks going dull and crazed in some places, and the chromework has pits all over the place, but this adds character to this 41 year old car. Would I want her to be up to the standard of the cars that arrive in covered trailers, ad haven't seen a spot of rain since 1958, I sure as hell wouldn't, it takes the sheer joy out of motoring.
I would also much much prefer to see a field full of Morris Minors, Ford Anglia's etc. with dull paint and pitted chrome, that can happily do hundreds upon thousands of miles per year, then a hardstanding area full of immaculate E-Type Jags and DB5's that although good on the outside, will have arrived on a trailer.
I would also much much prefer to see a field full of Morris Minors, Ford Anglia's etc. with dull paint and pitted chrome, that can happily do hundreds upon thousands of miles per year, then a hardstanding area full of immaculate E-Type Jags and DB5's that although good on the outside, will have arrived on a trailer.
lowdrag said:
Rusty chrome, rusty ashtray, rusty indicator stalk, worn out seats, carpets shagged, even the dial cards peeling off the instruments. But what else can I expect after over 100,000 miles of sheer fun and enjoyment?
Tony, that's just wonderful. A real car, used as she's meant to be used and with masses of character. People dig very deeply into their pockets and all too often over-restore their jalopies. Money can buy a nut and bolt restoration, but it sure hell can not buy 100,000 miles of use and unique memories. You must promise not to restore her...E-Types of this 'used' vintage are becoming a rare thing.I don't know what all the fuss is about, there's room for every type and condition surely ?
Playing devils advocate you could say that those who enthuse over "patina" are just as retentive as the concours crowd.
Correctly restored cars do reflect the car as the manufacturer intended and hence are a reference and interest for the general public.
Patination is wear and tear. Contrary to all the romanticising it doesn't usually tell you anything about the car's history or reflect it's character.
I know of more than one classic car that's gone from immaculate to wreck in three or four years due to neglect of the owners. What's so special about that?
Devils advocate hat off, I can appreciate well maintained cars that show their age. I own one and I use it regularly.
I can also appreciate immaculate show cars.
I'm not so enthusiastic about badly neglected classics such as the Triumph.
Playing devils advocate you could say that those who enthuse over "patina" are just as retentive as the concours crowd.
Correctly restored cars do reflect the car as the manufacturer intended and hence are a reference and interest for the general public.
Patination is wear and tear. Contrary to all the romanticising it doesn't usually tell you anything about the car's history or reflect it's character.
I know of more than one classic car that's gone from immaculate to wreck in three or four years due to neglect of the owners. What's so special about that?
Devils advocate hat off, I can appreciate well maintained cars that show their age. I own one and I use it regularly.
I can also appreciate immaculate show cars.
I'm not so enthusiastic about badly neglected classics such as the Triumph.
lowdrag said:
Rusty chrome, rusty ashtray, rusty indicator stalk, worn out seats, carpets shagged, even the dial cards peeling off the instruments. But what else can I expect after over 100,000 miles of sheer fun and enjoyment?
Like it 
Cars are to be used, they weren't designed to be garage-ornaments.
That's why they have a heavy metal thing called an engine. And some wheels.
Yes, there are memories of over 20 countries and even a one-day run of over 1,000 miles, plus hill climbs, track days, plus of course - women. If you look closely there is a champagne cork in the passenger side grab handle which constantly reminds me of one fabulous moment fourteen years back, but then gentlemen don't discuss. Except I will hint that the bonnet louvres had to be straightened afterwards. Ahem.
But the problem is that under the skin she is getting tired and weary. The wiring loom is pretty naff, there is - albeit minimal - rust here and there, the engine needs the cam buckets sorted, the front crank seal is leaking, the chains and tensioners probably are pretty tired by now, but the engine still runs like it should and ticks over to perfection. The engine, God bless it, has withstood 25 years of abuse like a true trooper, but the rest will soon need attention.
So what do I do? Like you, I see so many memories in every place like a weathered face, but do I go the face-lift route or suffer as she is until I can drive her no more and big bills are afoot. I have the idea to put her back as she was when she came out of the factory, that is gunmetal with red interior, but I'd lose her charm. I am thinking more and more to have her sympathetically restored and keep her as she is with the same colour scheme and not touching the interior. I would have the A frames replaced since they are known for rusting from within, I'd renew the suspension, repaint the car after rust treatment, and for the rest leave her as she is. I am really torn as to how far I go though.
But the problem is that under the skin she is getting tired and weary. The wiring loom is pretty naff, there is - albeit minimal - rust here and there, the engine needs the cam buckets sorted, the front crank seal is leaking, the chains and tensioners probably are pretty tired by now, but the engine still runs like it should and ticks over to perfection. The engine, God bless it, has withstood 25 years of abuse like a true trooper, but the rest will soon need attention.
So what do I do? Like you, I see so many memories in every place like a weathered face, but do I go the face-lift route or suffer as she is until I can drive her no more and big bills are afoot. I have the idea to put her back as she was when she came out of the factory, that is gunmetal with red interior, but I'd lose her charm. I am thinking more and more to have her sympathetically restored and keep her as she is with the same colour scheme and not touching the interior. I would have the A frames replaced since they are known for rusting from within, I'd renew the suspension, repaint the car after rust treatment, and for the rest leave her as she is. I am really torn as to how far I go though.
Very difficult decision.
On one hand I would be tempted to put her back as original, she deserves it, and then start the love affair all over again - on the other hand ....
Agree with you 100% on the A frames though the number of "restored" cars that retain the original A frames is frightening. They were only 0.8mm wall thickness originally (if memory serves) and have no internal protection.
My V12E had less than 30k miles and had always been well looked after - when we gave the frames a tap with a sharp hammer they holed through ...
On one hand I would be tempted to put her back as original, she deserves it, and then start the love affair all over again - on the other hand ....
Agree with you 100% on the A frames though the number of "restored" cars that retain the original A frames is frightening. They were only 0.8mm wall thickness originally (if memory serves) and have no internal protection.
My V12E had less than 30k miles and had always been well looked after - when we gave the frames a tap with a sharp hammer they holed through ...
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