The **BOXING** thread
Discussion
Yiliterate said:
By no means do I want to sound like I am trivialising (given the massively contrasting outcomes), but in terms of my emotional response to the events as they unfurled, I found the fight very reminiscent of the Benn/McClellan contest. Starting off with high hopes for Burns/Benn, with that quickly giving way to 'how the hell can they deal with what's in front of them'...seeing them taking a hiding and hanging on by their finger-nails at times...and then a dawning realisation that something's not quite right with their opponent (far more seriously in the case of McClellan) and that if they can just keep going they might turn this around...to the moment of triumphant relief and almost a sense of unreality when the ref waves it off.
I can see where you're coming from with that, definite similarities! For me though it was just much 'more' with the Benn/McClellan due to the fact it was already known how hard McClellan was...That was still one of the best fights I've ever seen, despite the tragic outcome...
tuscaneer said:
STW2010 said:
I'm surprised by this (hence my question). Neither fighters were really hurt, so I just expected it to go all the way. That was a great warrior's performance by Burns, but I'm sure he will accept that he was very fortunate- he was on his way to defeat.
A valid victory for me.in old bare knuckle parlance he simply had more "bottom" than gonzalez.sure he was being outboxed but his grit and determination had him stood waiting to battle as the other guy wouldnt get off his stool.History will always remember marciano knocking wallcott out in the 13th.it matters not that he was behind on the scorecards up to that point.wallcott had dropped rocky but he got up.rocky dropped jersey joe later in the fight and he didnt get up.
Was froch fortunate in the jermain taylor fight??again, froch got up and taylor couldnt when taylor was ahead.
The outcome does show the difference between a champion and just another boxer. Burns does need to learn from that fight though, and I'm sure he will.
I was very surprised how good Gonzales was - right from the bell. He looked at ease in the warm up, the entrance etc. What wasn't mentioned was that he had gone the distance in five fights out of 22 - so nearly a quarter - he didn't have a 100% KO record. All this rubbish about having hit people with his hardest shots and surprised to see them still standing broke his spirit ... tosh ... he'd FAILED to knock out five other opponents. Some opponents just seem to soak it uop and a re super-durable. (How I don't know)! Maybe some of them were only eight rounders or something ... but I WAS surprised he didn't get up from his stool. Especially with only three rounds to go.
On my *card* he was five points up ... so baring a knockdown or two he could have coasted in those final rounds. But then again - he was nearly out on his feet in the previous round.
Burns to me was gutsy but his perceived class was completely nullified by Gonzales' footwork and reach.
It's a win in the column though ... but think we'll see Gonzales again at this level.
On my *card* he was five points up ... so baring a knockdown or two he could have coasted in those final rounds. But then again - he was nearly out on his feet in the previous round.
Burns to me was gutsy but his perceived class was completely nullified by Gonzales' footwork and reach.
It's a win in the column though ... but think we'll see Gonzales again at this level.
Edited by uk66fastback on Monday 13th May 12:36
uk66fastback said:
I was very surprised how good Gonzales was - right from the bell. He looked at ease in the warm up, the entrance etc. What wasn't mentioned was that he had gone the distance in five fights out of 22 - so nearly a quarter - he didn't have a 100% KO record. All this rubbish about having hit people with his hardest shots and surprised to see them still standing broke his spirit ... tosh ... he'd FAILED to knock out five other opponents. Some opponents just seem to soak it uop and a re super-durable. (How I don't know)! Maybe some of them were only eight rounders or something ... but I WAS surprised he didn't get up from his stool. Especially with only three rounds to go.
On my *card* he was five points up ... so baring a knockdown or two he could have coasted in those final rounds. But then again - he was nearly out on his feet in the previous round.
Burns to me was gutsy but his perceived class was completely nullified by Gonzales' footwork and reach.
It's a win in the column though ... but think we'll see Gonzales again at this level.
On my *card* he was five points up ... so baring a knockdown or two he could have coasted in those final rounds. But then again - he was nearly out on his feet in the previous round.
Burns to me was gutsy but his perceived class was completely nullified by Gonzales' footwork and reach.
It's a win in the column though ... but think we'll see Gonzales again at this level.
Edited by uk66fastback on Monday 13th May 12:36
Not sure what you're saying here - are you arguing that Burns surviving the 7th wouldn't have had a demoralising effect on Gonzalez because 5 other opponents have gone the distance with him? If so, how do you explain how it ended...?
Edited by Yiliterate on Monday 13th May 14:18
What I'm saying is that after the fight Glenn and Johnny seemed to be saying because Gonzales failed to finish him in the 7th - he suddenly had his heart broken - and I was saying he'd not knocked every opponent out - they were saying he'd thrown his best shots and the fact Burns was still there had broken him - I disagree with that as he'd no doubt hit people with his best shots before in previous fights who had gone the distance and he had still won the fights on points. They wouldn't have been of Burn's talent (and heart probably though), I'll grant you.
He was nearly out on his feet though due to the effort he'd put in that 7th (and due to the few shots he took as well) ...
He quit for a reason didn't he. If he had a broken wrist then that's a good point to quit on his stool. Not everyone would ahve done - Ali with his broken jaw, that guy with the lump on his shoulder a few years ago - was it Julian Francis? He kncoked the guy out with it IIRC in the next/last round.
ALl I'm saying is, I don't believe he quit becuase he'd has his spirit broken. Not many pro boxers do that ... (except No Mas!)
He was nearly out on his feet though due to the effort he'd put in that 7th (and due to the few shots he took as well) ...
He quit for a reason didn't he. If he had a broken wrist then that's a good point to quit on his stool. Not everyone would ahve done - Ali with his broken jaw, that guy with the lump on his shoulder a few years ago - was it Julian Francis? He kncoked the guy out with it IIRC in the next/last round.
ALl I'm saying is, I don't believe he quit becuase he'd has his spirit broken. Not many pro boxers do that ... (except No Mas!)
uk66fastback said:
What I'm saying is that after the fight Glenn and Johnny seemed to be saying because Gonzales failed to finish him in the 7th - he suddenly had his heart broken - and I was saying he'd not knocked every opponent out - they were saying he'd thrown his best shots and the fact Burns was still there had broken him - I disagree with that as he'd no doubt hit people with his best shots before in previous fights who had gone the distance and he had still won the fights on points. They wouldn't have been of Burn's talent (and heart probably though), I'll grant you.
He was nearly out on his feet though due to the effort he'd put in that 7th (and due to the few shots he took as well) ...
He quit for a reason didn't he. If he had a broken wrist then that's a good point to quit on his stool. Not everyone would ahve done - Ali with his broken jaw, that guy with the lump on his shoulder a few years ago - was it Julian Francis? He kncoked the guy out with it IIRC in the next/last round.
ALl I'm saying is, I don't believe he quit becuase he'd has his spirit broken. Not many pro boxers do that ... (except No Mas!)
Yes, he quit for a reason. But you yourself give examples of fighters in similar predicaments who didn't quit; who chose to battle on regardless. So what was the difference if not fighting spirit...? Without wishing to be disrespectful to Gonzalez, when the chips were down he didn't look like he wanted it any more. I didn't see him begging his corner not to pull him out and he didn't exactly look inconsolable post-fight...He was nearly out on his feet though due to the effort he'd put in that 7th (and due to the few shots he took as well) ...
He quit for a reason didn't he. If he had a broken wrist then that's a good point to quit on his stool. Not everyone would ahve done - Ali with his broken jaw, that guy with the lump on his shoulder a few years ago - was it Julian Francis? He kncoked the guy out with it IIRC in the next/last round.
ALl I'm saying is, I don't believe he quit becuase he'd has his spirit broken. Not many pro boxers do that ... (except No Mas!)
I don't really remember the comments from Johnny and Glen but this might be a question of nuainces; I'd be surprised if that's exactly what they meant, even if it might have come across that way. I don't think anyone is arguing that Gonzalez quit solely because his opponent had survived his best shots, but my gut feeling is this; Gonzalez decided to gamble in the 7th and throw the kitchen sink at Burns to get him out of there. Whether that was because of overconfidence or possibly because he had started to doubt whether he himself could go the full distance, I don't know. But either way, it didn't go to plan and, moreover, in doing what he did he'd emptied the tank. So now he's facing a situation whereby not only wasn't his best quite enough to get the job done but he has very little else to give because he's gassed...and then he's got a pretty unpleasant injury to deal with on top of that. From being comfortably in charge of the fight, things were unravelling fast, and shortly afterwards he chose to end the fight even though he still hadn't taken a huge amount of punishment, and he was still ahead on the cards by quite some margin, and there were only three rounds to go, and it was a world title fight...
I don't know; maybe he was doing the sensible thing - playing the long game, losing the battle but still looking to win the war, etc. However, situations reversed, I think Ricky Burns would have come out for the next round; even if it was just to go out on his shield. That's because he has that fighting spirit.
Yiliterate said:
Yes, he quit for a reason. But you yourself give examples of fighters in similar predicaments who didn't quit; who chose to battle on regardless. So what was the difference if not fighting spirit...? Without wishing to be disrespectful to Gonzalez, when the chips were down he didn't look like he wanted it any more. I didn't see him begging his corner not to pull him out and he didn't exactly look inconsolable post-fight...
I don't really remember the comments from Johnny and Glen but this might be a question of nuainces; I'd be surprised if that's exactly what they meant, even if it might have come across that way. I don't think anyone is arguing that Gonzalez quit solely because his opponent had survived his best shots, but my gut feeling is this; Gonzalez decided to gamble in the 7th and throw the kitchen sink at Burns to get him out of there. Whether that was because of overconfidence or possibly because he had started to doubt whether he himself could go the full distance, I don't know. But either way, it didn't go to plan and, moreover, in doing what he did he'd emptied the tank. So now he's facing a situation whereby not only wasn't his best quite enough to get the job done but he has very little else to give because he's gassed...and then he's got a pretty unpleasant injury to deal with on top of that. From being comfortably in charge of the fight, things were unravelling fast, and shortly afterwards he chose to end the fight even though he still hadn't taken a huge amount of punishment, and he was still ahead on the cards by quite some margin, and there were only three rounds to go, and it was a world title fight...
I don't know; maybe he was doing the sensible thing - playing the long game, losing the battle but still looking to win the war, etc. However, situations reversed, I think Ricky Burns would have come out for the next round; even if it was just to go out on his shield. That's because he has that fighting spirit.
I agree that Burns would have had to had his legs removed before he wouldn't have risen from that stool ...I don't really remember the comments from Johnny and Glen but this might be a question of nuainces; I'd be surprised if that's exactly what they meant, even if it might have come across that way. I don't think anyone is arguing that Gonzalez quit solely because his opponent had survived his best shots, but my gut feeling is this; Gonzalez decided to gamble in the 7th and throw the kitchen sink at Burns to get him out of there. Whether that was because of overconfidence or possibly because he had started to doubt whether he himself could go the full distance, I don't know. But either way, it didn't go to plan and, moreover, in doing what he did he'd emptied the tank. So now he's facing a situation whereby not only wasn't his best quite enough to get the job done but he has very little else to give because he's gassed...and then he's got a pretty unpleasant injury to deal with on top of that. From being comfortably in charge of the fight, things were unravelling fast, and shortly afterwards he chose to end the fight even though he still hadn't taken a huge amount of punishment, and he was still ahead on the cards by quite some margin, and there were only three rounds to go, and it was a world title fight...
I don't know; maybe he was doing the sensible thing - playing the long game, losing the battle but still looking to win the war, etc. However, situations reversed, I think Ricky Burns would have come out for the next round; even if it was just to go out on his shield. That's because he has that fighting spirit.
I can't remember know who initiated the attacks in the 7th, whether it was Burns who got a few through early on or ther other way round ... needless to say it was bad tactics by Gonzales to mix it (even for a puncher) as it didn't work out in his best interests to do that ...
GOnzales was a mile ahead and I don't know why he went for it in the 7th - can't remember (need to see the fight again) but maybe he got tagged and couldn't physically get out of the way of a few in that round and so was forced to trade ...
Great fight though ... but we've not heard the last of the Puerto Rican I reckon.
Yiliterate said:
uk66fastback said:
Haye fight off - injured his hand in training.
at Yilly
at Yilly
Now, do we believe this...or do we think maybe another option is about to become available???
Yiliterate said:
Off the back of the Amir Khan-WBC development, this is an interesting and insightful article from Steve Bunce on the operation/procedural structure around the compilation of boxing rankings:
http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/sport/story/201400.ht...
UPDATE...http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/sport/story/201400.ht...
As you will probably remember, last month the WBC decided to install Amir Khan as #2 challenger to their Welterweight world title (147lbs), despite Khan never having fought above Light Welterweight (140lbs) and having lost his previous two world title fights.
Subsequent to this announcement, Khan fights and defeats Julio Diaz at a catchweight 143lbs and, at their earliest opportunity, the WBC reflect this development by...not ranking Khan anywhere in their TOP 15 Welterweights!!!
Lebedev wasn't exactly Brad Pitt to start with, but this is horrible. Fingers crossed the damage isn't permanent...
http://www.worldboxingnews.net/news/2013/05/17/leb...
ETA - just seen Lee Purdy failed to make the weight for the Alexander fight, so the title won't be at stake. A pity for him but I don't think I could see him winning it anyway.
http://www.worldboxingnews.net/news/2013/05/17/leb...
ETA - just seen Lee Purdy failed to make the weight for the Alexander fight, so the title won't be at stake. A pity for him but I don't think I could see him winning it anyway.
Edited by Yiliterate on Saturday 18th May 10:52
Yiliterate said:
Lebedev wasn't exactly Brad Pitt to start with, but this is horrible. Fingers crossed the damage isn't permanent...
http://www.worldboxingnews.net/news/2013/05/17/leb...
ETA - just seen Lee Purdy failed to make the weight for the Alexander fight, so the title won't be at stake. A pity for him but I don't think I could see him winning it anyway.
Did you see the fight - it was an absolute classic, surprising in so many ways! Horrible to watch at times though and should have been stopped way earlier. I can only suspect that the ref in letting it go on was thinking of the home town favourite (don't mention the Mafia!) but not his welfare. Career ending or ruining, I shouldn't be surprised.http://www.worldboxingnews.net/news/2013/05/17/leb...
ETA - just seen Lee Purdy failed to make the weight for the Alexander fight, so the title won't be at stake. A pity for him but I don't think I could see him winning it anyway.
Edited by Yiliterate on Saturday 18th May 10:52
Yiliterate said:
Lebedev wasn't exactly Brad Pitt to start with, but this is horrible. Fingers crossed the damage isn't permanent...
http://www.worldboxingnews.net/news/2013/05/17/leb...
Hopefully nothing too serious...and speedy recovery.http://www.worldboxingnews.net/news/2013/05/17/leb...
soad said:
Yiliterate said:
Lebedev wasn't exactly Brad Pitt to start with, but this is horrible. Fingers crossed the damage isn't permanent...
http://www.worldboxingnews.net/news/2013/05/17/leb...
Hopefully nothing too serious...and speedy recovery.http://www.worldboxingnews.net/news/2013/05/17/leb...
ked up he would have won.Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff