UKIP - The Future

[McWigglebum4th]

MX7 said:

I find it strange than the SNP and UKIP have fairly similar ambitions, but only UKIP are accused of having an ulterior motive. There really is nothing wrong with being nationalistic, and if we don't defend our sovereignty it will become extinct.
.

WTF

SNP want a big nanny knows best state controlled scotland firmly integrated into the EU superstate where all protests and free thought are firmly crushed


The last thing that the SNP actually want is independence

[MX7]

McWigglebum4th said:

WTF

SNP want a big nanny knows best state controlled scotland firmly integrated into the EU superstate where all protests and free thought are firmly crushed


The last thing that the SNP actually want is independence

True, but they also want to separate from a union, just like UKIP do.

[MX7]

Guam said:

They only want to seperate from a Union with the English, as many of us have pointed out for a long time.

I know, but my point is that they both seek independence to some level, yet are viewed in very different ways.

[McWigglebum4th]

MX7 said:

Guam said:

They only want to seperate from a Union with the English, as many of us have pointed out for a long time.

I know, but my point is that they both seek independence to some level, yet are viewed in very different ways.

SNP, independence



Not even vaguely

All they want is to say fk you to the english


Don't believe me?


Then go suggest that there should be a UK wide vote on scotland leaving the UK.

The reaction is very informative

[zygalski]

Globs said:

The EU was only formed in 1992.

Who or what in your esteemed opinion is responsible for the following:

-Part time workers have the same rights as full-time workers for the first time.
-That means proper paid holidays, a pension, equal pay and conditions
-Temporary workers have a better deal on pay and paid holidays
-Working Time Directive stops workers being forced to work excessive hours
-Longer maternity leave and paid paternity leave
-Tougher rules to protect workers from dangerous machinery or chemicals
-Common rules across Europe stop multinationals moving jobs to other countries to cut corners
-EU-wide food and drinking water standards mean safer food and tap water for us all
-We can see what is in our food at a glance, thanks to European food labelling standards
-We have the healthiest rivers for centuries, after the EU stopped farmers dumping fertiliser and slurry in rivers
-Straight bananas!
-New EU rules on toy safety protect our children from harm
-EU wide action on price fixing means cheaper products
-Companies operating scams are now fought across Europe, closing them down
-Over 1,600 dangerous products removed from sale in 2007 alone
-The EU has been able to introduce Europe-wide rules for internet selling, protecting us from rogue traders
-Thanks to the EU, you don’t have to queue for hours to have your passport checked when you go on holiday
-You can get free healthcare if you are taken ill in an EU country
-The EU forced through action to cut costs of mobile calls and texts sent when on holiday
-EU rules mean cleaner beaches all over Europe, including Britain
-The EU has stopped airlines using misleading adverts and websites

[MX7]

McWigglebum4th said:

All they want is to say fk you to the english

And UKIP want to say similar to the EU, but only one of them is constantly accused of racism.

[McWigglebum4th]

MX7 said:

McWigglebum4th said:

All they want is to say fk you to the english

And UKIP want to say similar to the EU, but only one of them is constantly accused of racism.

Which is strange as out of the two i know which one acts the most like a racist party

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009668/Fe...

[rudecherub]

zygalski said:

Globs said:

The EU was only formed in 1992.

Who or what in your esteemed opinion is responsible for the following:

-Part time workers have the same rights as full-time workers for the first time.
-That means proper paid holidays, a pension, equal pay and conditions
-Temporary workers have a better deal on pay and paid holidays
-Working Time Directive stops workers being forced to work excessive hours
-Longer maternity leave and paid paternity leave
-Tougher rules to protect workers from dangerous machinery or chemicals
-Common rules across Europe stop multinationals moving jobs to other countries to cut corners
-EU-wide food and drinking water standards mean safer food and tap water for us all
-We can see what is in our food at a glance, thanks to European food labelling standards
-We have the healthiest rivers for centuries, after the EU stopped farmers dumping fertiliser and slurry in rivers
-Straight bananas!
-New EU rules on toy safety protect our children from harm
-EU wide action on price fixing means cheaper products
-Companies operating scams are now fought across Europe, closing them down
-Over 1,600 dangerous products removed from sale in 2007 alone
-The EU has been able to introduce Europe-wide rules for internet selling, protecting us from rogue traders
-Thanks to the EU, you don’t have to queue for hours to have your passport checked when you go on holiday
-You can get free healthcare if you are taken ill in an EU country
-The EU forced through action to cut costs of mobile calls and texts sent when on holiday
-EU rules mean cleaner beaches all over Europe, including Britain
-The EU has stopped airlines using misleading adverts and websites

-Part time workers have the same rights as full-time workers for the first time.
-That means proper paid holidays, a pension, equal pay and conditions
-Temporary workers have a better deal on pay and paid holidays
-Working Time Directive stops workers being forced to work excessive hours
-Longer maternity leave and paid paternity leave

All rules that favour big business over small to medium sized business, stifling competition, preventing market access, and reducing consumer choice. One of the main reasons the EU is still in recession.

-EU-wide food and drinking water standards mean safer food and tap water for us all

You could already drink the tap water in Britain long before the EEC/EC/EU

-We can see what is in our food at a glance, thanks to European food labelling standards

No we can't. We can't properly label our Produce as grown in Britain, raised under proper standards of care - as that breaks the rules of the Customs union, hence cruelly raised meat is sold unlabelled etc.

-We have the healthiest rivers for centuries, after the EU stopped farmers dumping fertiliser and slurry in rivers

Because UK farmers are uniquely irresponsible? Rubbish - these standards have been raised across the developed world - the USA, Canada, Australia etc didn't need Brussels, so why do we?

-New EU rules on toy safety protect our children from harm

Ditto point above. EU is not unique in this regard.

-EU wide action on price fixing means cheaper products

EU regulation means products are more expensive due to oligopolies, added cost, and reduced competition, and barriers to entry into the customs union.
Especially in food, the most basic commodity costs the poor more in the EU because of the vast evil that is the Common Agriculture Policy

-Companies operating scams are now fought across Europe, closing them down

Australia is a member of Interpol. We don't need Brussels to coordinate inter-judicial policing.

-Over 1,600 dangerous products removed from sale in 2007 alone

Ditto as above - are we so inept in the UK that we'd insist dangerous products stay?

-The EU has been able to introduce Europe-wide rules for internet selling, protecting us from rogue traders

No they haven't. the Internet is not theirs to control, and again we don't need Brussels, in fact the EU is an obstacle in creating free markets - as many a GATT round demonstrates, hence negotiating with the wider world that the net covers.

-Thanks to the EU, you don’t have to queue for hours to have your passport checked when you go on holiday

Most countries you simply had to wave a black passport with the Royal Crest emblazoned on it and that was all that was required. Having said that in the age of terrorism is *not* having passport controls a good idea?

-You can get free healthcare if you are taken ill in an EU country

You shouldn't travel without comprehensive insurance any way

-The EU forced through action to cut costs of mobile calls and texts sent when on holiday

Real advances in technology make all that redundant ie web calls - also irrelevant if you're doing business in the other places in the world that are growing, unlike the EU whose slice of the World market has shrunk year on year since the UK joined.

-EU rules mean cleaner beaches all over Europe, including Britain

Ditto point above - this is a world wide trend.

-The EU has stopped airlines using misleading adverts and websites

And has banned olive oil jugs and bowls from restaurants - we have the advertising standards agency - we don't require an extra level of very very expensive ( two Parliaments etc ) foreign bureaucracy to do that!

Also by the by - Rawmarsh by-election on 16 May for Rotherham Council

MBC: #UKIP 46.48%, LAB 42.25%, CON 4.39%, BNP 3.25%, TUSC 2.48%, LDEM 1.14%.

UKIP Gain from LAB

[zygalski]

Ah ok.
So all the legislation that the EU has passed & the subsequent improvements would have happened anyway.
Thanks for clearing that up.

[Globs]

zygalski said:

Ah ok.
So all the legislation that the EU has passed & the subsequent improvements would have happened anyway.
Thanks for clearing that up.

Exactly.
And it would have been far far cheaper too.
And we'd be able to have a decent farming and fisheries too.

Farmers in the UK can't even dredge a river without permission from the EU now.

[zygalski]

Also, I thought that the collapse of the Western banking system (which until very recently was held as the ultimate in laissez-faire economics) and sub-prime lending in the US brought about the economic crisis in 2008- present.
Kippers teach you something everyday... apparently the EU is to blame for that too!

[zygalski]

Globs said:

Exactly.
And it would have been far far cheaper too.
And we'd be able to have a decent farming and fisheries too.

Farmers in the UK can't even dredge a river without permission from the EU now.

Wow - the grass must be greener outside the EU.
To be honest, what with everything bad being the responsibility of the EU (even the US banking collapse of 2008 it seems) and everything good that apparently would have happened anyway or can be deflected away from the EU, I'm surprised it has any members at all, especially several of the world's leading economies!

Loving Kipper logic boys, keep 'em coming

[crazy about cars]

The Black Flash said:

Interesting. Do you really think that discussing multiculturalism is "a bit BNP", or have you been so conditioned to fear being labelled "racist" that it's an unthinking reaction? Honestly?

Personally I think that integration is preferable to multiculturalism. How BNP does that make me?

I just think that in this modern age we all have to see further than the colour of our skin. I haven't been conditioned in anyway - it's ok to discuss multiculturalism and how to better adapt and improve.

UKIP does have a few very interesting policies but unfortunately certain members with far right wing extremist views spoils it for them.

[rudecherub]

zygalski said:

Also, I thought that the collapse of the Western banking system (which until very recently was held as the ultimate in laissez-faire economics) and sub-prime lending in the US brought about the economic crisis in 2008- present.
Kippers teach you something everyday... apparently the EU is to blame for that too!

Nope the EU is to blame for the Eurozone Crisis and policies that are crippling the EU states as a result. Over 60% youth unemployment in Greece.

Iceland had a banking collapse too - it's now growing strongly, and won't be joining the EU.

Also the EU wishes it had the growth of the US.

The sub-prime crisis started in America, but exposed weaknesses across the global system, blaming America for those weaknesses is just silly.

Also the crisis began due to Left wing Political policy forcing lenders to loan money to people who weren't good risks during the Clinton Administration. ie is an example of intervention / regulation breaking the market.

[Globs]

zygalski said:

Also, I thought that the collapse of the Western banking system (which until very recently was held as the ultimate in laissez-faire economics) and sub-prime lending in the US brought about the economic crisis in 2008- present.
Kippers teach you something everyday... apparently the EU is to blame for that too!

I can't seem to find anyone from here or UKIP ever saying that zyg, are you hallucinating again?
One thing we can see for ourselves is the EU and ECB are making the eurozone hell to live in.

One by one countries have fallen into the mathematical certainty caused by renting their money from the ECB: An endless debt spiral.

[McWigglebum4th]

zygalski said:

Loving Kipper logic boys, keep 'em coming

So toryboy

Can you explain why your beloved tory party isn't basically nazi sympathisers?


Current immigration policy is that someone from Germany the birth place of the Nazi movement can move into the UK and work here no problem.

However someone from India a country that was on our side during the war against the Nazis needs to apply for a visa to come and work in the UK.

[rudecherub]

zygalski said:

Wow - the grass must be greener outside the EU.
To be honest, what with everything bad being the responsibility of the EU (even the US banking collapse of 2008 it seems) and everything good that apparently would have happened anyway or can be deflected away from the EU, I'm surprised it has any members at all, especially several of the world's leading economies!

Loving Kipper logic boys, keep 'em coming

The EU is still in recession, whereas the USA et al aren't. So yes the grass *is* greener.

The EU's share of the world market has shrunk year on year - so yes the grass *is* greener in the rest of the world.

EU regulatory mechanisms designed to act as barriers to trade and protect the union disguised as protection and or rights also act to spoil WTO talks.

Of course certain EU states have first world advantages of long established industrial economies, but growth in other parts of the world demonstrate that this historical ranking is not sure - Brazil is knocking on the door of the G7 for example.

[Globs]

McWigglebum4th said:

Current immigration policy is that someone from Germany the birth place of the Nazi movement can move into the UK and work here no problem.
However someone from India a country that was on our side during the war against the Nazis needs to apply for a visa to come and work in the UK.

Yes I find that rather racist too - it's like a white's only club in the EU.
Some of the people I get along with best are from India and Sri Lanka, lovely people, and they have far more in common with us that many in the EU.

I also have a mexican working with me now, he had to faff with a visa etc to get here too .

[rudecherub]

Globs said:

McWigglebum4th said:

Current immigration policy is that someone from Germany the birth place of the Nazi movement can move into the UK and work here no problem.
However someone from India a country that was on our side during the war against the Nazis needs to apply for a visa to come and work in the UK.

Yes I find that rather racist too - it's like a white's only club in the EU.
Some of the people I get along with best are from India and Sri Lanka, lovely people, and they have far more in common with us that many in the EU.

I also have a mexican working with me now, he had to faff with a visa etc to get here too .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQREDQjfzC4

EU withdraws £106,000 'racist' propaganda video



The European Union has withdrawn a £106,000 propaganda video promoting itself as a force for world peace after complaints of “racism”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...

And for kids there's Captain Euro

" All the good guys are Aryans (except for Marcus, who doesn't actually appear in the adventures),

whereas the bad guys are swarthy "financiers" (Jews?) and members of a "traveling circus" (Gypsies?) who spend their time and money hoarding the great art treasures of Europe (Jews again?)

."

http://theyesmen.org/hijinks/euro

[Mr_B]

Blimey, even George Galloway came out and and defended UKIP.

"I hold no candle for Nigel Farage but if leaders of democratic parties with substantial support are to be driven out of Scotland under police protection, it's not going to be much of an advertisement for visitors and investors."

"The whole event had a very anti-English character, it was very ugly. The language and behaviour of the protesters and the pathetic response of the police, who couldn't even secure a press event held by the third party of the state, doesn't say much for Scotland if it wishes to become independent. This kind of roughhouse is only justified against fascist leaders, and Farage is definitely not a fascist."