HMS Illustrious/Battle of the Atlantic Celebrations London

[silverfoxcc]

Thanks, saves a big diversion

[wildcat45]

Seight_Returns said:

If you really want to uber-out-geek him, you could tell him that the RN's Goalkeepers are for sale.

http://www.janes.com/products/janes/defence-securi...

Once Illustrious bows out, there will only be one of the 9 originally Goalkeeper equipped ships left operational and apparently the costs of maintaining the support infrastructure is considered excessive for only one ship (Bulwark still active - Albion in exteneded readiness - Invincible scrapped - the 4 T22B3 frigates awaiting scrapping, Illustrious going).

A sad state of affairs - although I'm thinking one would look good on the bow of my 28 foot yacht .....

Edited by Seight_Returns on Thursday 16th May 11:36

I always thought Goalkeeper was such an under developed weapon. I guess its dependency on the ship was the stumbling block. Phallanx being more or less a plug and play weapon.

Just a shame it would be too hard to install the old sets on a few T23s or even as a nice bit of punch on the River Class.

[anonymous-user]

Just a brief vid of Edinburgh sailing past my place on her way out of London for the last time. Things like this make living in Woolwich bearable!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyNC6P5hAWY

[Seight_Returns]

wildcat45 said:

I always thought Goalkeeper was such an under developed weapon. I guess its dependency on the ship was the stumbling block. Phallanx being more or less a plug and play weapon.

Just a shame it would be too hard to install the old sets on a few T23s or even as a nice bit of punch on the River Class.

The plug-and-play concept of Phalanx requiring nothing from the ship apart from a power supply and autonomously determining what and when to engage based upon a pre-defined set of parameters and algorithms is compelling. For the last ditch scenario of a lone ship in open water with all its other defences and countermeasures defeated and its Ops Room fully committed - you can see how that might be the ideal solution.

But for the more realistic scenario of a group of ships under missile/air attack - all manoeuvring wildly and deploying their own countermeansures to try to avoid an incoming threat - you can imagine that would present a pretty confused and complex tactical picture and would be an enormous challenge to expect a fully automated system to do the right thing - in the Gulf/Missouri/Gloucester/Silkworm incident the Phalanx on Jarrett seemed to have engaged just about everything and anything in range apart from the Silkworm. We can only speculate it Goalkeeper might have done better in the same situation.

Agree that it's a shame the redundant units couldn't have found their way onto 23s - I think penny-pinching by descoping CIWs from the original design was a big mistake.

I really hope that the Goalkeepers removed from Albion/Bulwark will be replaced with Phalanx - hopefully so since they should have plenty from recently paid off 42s. It would be a travesty if the lessons learnt from Bluff Cove of leaving amphibs without effective point air defence had to be re-learnt.

[wildcat45]

Are all the Phallanx B1b spec? I've a feeling most are. I think some found their way to Afghanistan in a land based role.

I would imagine the LPDs will get them -we've got them on RFA.

SeaRam would br a great thing if we could afford it. A point defence missile with all the ease of fit of Phallanx.

I suppose with some T23s getting Sea Ceptor, there's less of a need to retrofit CIWS now. Thinking about it, I'm not sure where yould site Goalkeeper on a 23. Deckhouse on the hangar for the below deck stuff, with the gun on top?

[Seight_Returns]

I think the original T23 design had Goalkeeper on the hanger roof. As you say that would require a deckhouse given the below deck requirements. I've heard suggestions that the reason it was dropped from the original design may have been structural/stability rather than cost - if so that would rule out any retrofit.

Will Sea Ceptor on T23 be in addition to or in replacement of SeaWolf ?

[wildcat45]

Sea Ceptor replaces Sea Wolf .

996 is replaced by the 997 "Artisan" 3D radar. Its got some really cool functions, one of which is the means to provide TIR and fire contol, so no need for a 911 or any other fire control set.

Sea Ceptor can be quad packed into a silo, therefore more potenial pay load per ship.

Also it is cold launched using compressed gas to get it outboard and aloft. The weapon then fires up its motor in the air. Safer for the ship if there is a misfire. No need to manage exhaust gasses on board, no need for a booster.

With CIWS increasingly being seen as an anti fast craft weapon, a Phallanx at least on the hangar would be good.

Even so, with Sea Ceptor, 997, 2087 sonar, a Wildcat helo or Merlin HM2, a refitted Type 23 will be a pretty decent war canoe.