Double white line and car passing a cyclist-clarity required
Discussion
R0G said:
V8RX7 said:
^^^This
I was prosecuted for crossing the dbl white line.
I overtook a car and as the road was clear I overtook a second.
I could have pulled back in sharper and not had my front wheels cross the dbl white (starting to go up a hill) but as I could see the road was clear for many hundreds of m I didn't as common sense said it was pointless.
Female cop, miles behind in unmarked camera car disagreed.
What speed was the car doing ?I was prosecuted for crossing the dbl white line.
I overtook a car and as the road was clear I overtook a second.
I could have pulled back in sharper and not had my front wheels cross the dbl white (starting to go up a hill) but as I could see the road was clear for many hundreds of m I didn't as common sense said it was pointless.
Female cop, miles behind in unmarked camera car disagreed.
Skyrat said:
R0G said:
V8RX7 said:
^^^This
I was prosecuted for crossing the dbl white line.
I overtook a car and as the road was clear I overtook a second.
I could have pulled back in sharper and not had my front wheels cross the dbl white (starting to go up a hill) but as I could see the road was clear for many hundreds of m I didn't as common sense said it was pointless.
Female cop, miles behind in unmarked camera car disagreed.
What speed was the car doing ?I was prosecuted for crossing the dbl white line.
I overtook a car and as the road was clear I overtook a second.
I could have pulled back in sharper and not had my front wheels cross the dbl white (starting to go up a hill) but as I could see the road was clear for many hundreds of m I didn't as common sense said it was pointless.
Female cop, miles behind in unmarked camera car disagreed.
john_r said:
It's not so black & white for BiB - I got pulled over for crossing a white line after I overtook a tractor that was travelling <10mph . Clear and perfectly safe for me to overtake... however the local BiBs in their diseasel Astra stuck near the back of the queue overtook 4-5 cars and the tractor to pull me over - causing a car coming the other way to brake sharply to avoid a collision. But I was in the wrong and duly accepted my 7 day producer without comment 
- although I did note the BiB passenger never got out of the car, so I guess there's a good chance he'd s
t himself after the near miss. 
Road:
Why didn't you make a complaint of dangerous driving by the copper? No exemption for that and if the car was video equipped it might not have gone well for them. - although I did note the BiB passenger never got out of the car, so I guess there's a good chance he'd st himself after the near miss. Road:
In order to be enforceable the lines must comply with chapter 5 trafic signage, most do not. The cheif constable is required to give consent to all new aplications, this they do as a ruber stamp opperation, shame on them.
The first paragraph of chapter 5 says they should not be so comonly used as to become widely ignored.
on the A358 there are continuouse double white lines and a sign that warns of oncoming trafic in the midle of the road, Somerset County Council, W S Atkins and the chief constable of Avon & Somerset should hang their heads in shame.
The question you have to ask yourself is do you feel lucky and can you afford to deffend yourself in court.
The first paragraph of chapter 5 says they should not be so comonly used as to become widely ignored.
on the A358 there are continuouse double white lines and a sign that warns of oncoming trafic in the midle of the road, Somerset County Council, W S Atkins and the chief constable of Avon & Somerset should hang their heads in shame.
The question you have to ask yourself is do you feel lucky and can you afford to deffend yourself in court.
I'm going to try and nip a potential off-topic discussion before it gets started with a short FAQ:
Q. Well they don't pay road tax so they shouldn't be on the road anyway!
A. You're a tool, it's VED tax on cars, based on the vehicle emissions, not a fee to use the road
Q. Who pays for these white lines to be painted?
A. You're a plank, The council & gubberment
Q. What are cyclists?
A. Cyclists are awesome... apart from the red-light dodgers who are knobs and give the rest a bad name
Q. Well they don't pay road tax so they shouldn't be on the road anyway!
A. You're a tool, it's VED tax on cars, based on the vehicle emissions, not a fee to use the road
Q. Who pays for these white lines to be painted?
A. You're a plank, The council & gubberment
Q. What are cyclists?
A. Cyclists are awesome... apart from the red-light dodgers who are knobs and give the rest a bad name
Vipers said:
Skyrat said:
R0G said:
V8RX7 said:
^^^This
I was prosecuted for crossing the dbl white line.
I overtook a car and as the road was clear I overtook a second.
I could have pulled back in sharper and not had my front wheels cross the dbl white (starting to go up a hill) but as I could see the road was clear for many hundreds of m I didn't as common sense said it was pointless.
Female cop, miles behind in unmarked camera car disagreed.
What speed was the car doing ?I was prosecuted for crossing the dbl white line.
I overtook a car and as the road was clear I overtook a second.
I could have pulled back in sharper and not had my front wheels cross the dbl white (starting to go up a hill) but as I could see the road was clear for many hundreds of m I didn't as common sense said it was pointless.
Female cop, miles behind in unmarked camera car disagreed.
You can't pass just any vehicle travelling at less than 10mph. You can pass a pedal cyclist, a horse, or a road maintenance vehicle that is in use & displaying the required sign to the rear.
If you were offside before the solid line started & only got back in after it had started you commit the offence.
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 17th May 17:28
For clarity, I suspect:
V8RX7 was overtaking none of the vehicles Von mentions.
V8RX7 was overtaking something doing well above 10mph.
V8RX7 was done for being on the wrong side of a road with a solid white on his (normal) side while not having the "<10mph special vehicle exemption".
He was just doing a normal overtake but hung out too long on the wrong side of the road.
Either he should have done the overtake faster.
Or not done it because it couldn't be completed safely (i.e. without cutting in on the overtakee) in the space available.
V8RX7 was overtaking none of the vehicles Von mentions.
V8RX7 was overtaking something doing well above 10mph.
V8RX7 was done for being on the wrong side of a road with a solid white on his (normal) side while not having the "<10mph special vehicle exemption".
He was just doing a normal overtake but hung out too long on the wrong side of the road.
Either he should have done the overtake faster.
Or not done it because it couldn't be completed safely (i.e. without cutting in on the overtakee) in the space available.
yellowjack said:
If you come up behind a cyclist on a drop-bar road bike doing 10mph or less on a flat, level road, the chances are he'll identify himself by wearing a 
out of shame. Seriously. Most road cyclists can maintain an average somewhere north of 14/15mph, with most, even the fatties/unfities like myself able to hold 17/18mph for long periods, except when climbing of course.
I've just got back to cycling after a 6 month total lay-off, and am averaging 10mph off road, up and down hills and through dense woodland on 2.1 inch wide knobbly tyres. Put me back on the road on a 23mm tyre, a lighter bike and higher gearing, and I would hope to be back to around 15/16mph.
As a sample, I used to have a 21 mile loop that I rode 3 times a week, minimum. My PB for that route was 17.8mph average, my lowest ebb was 14.8mph average, and I regularly tackled it in the dark at 15/16mph averages. That was on undulating rural roads.
Two more random picks - a 47 miler at 15.1mph average, and my longest solo effort, 103 miles ridden at an average speed of 15.4mph - these aren't boasts, either. There are plenty fitter/faster cyclists than me, and when we ride in groups we tend to get quicker by sharing the workload at the front. My average speeds over any given distance took a bit of a tumble when I moved back to Farnborough, because the hills around these parts are more significant, but even here I was riding 14/15mph averages.
My point? Don't kid yourself about the speeds a road bike is capable of holding onto. You'll almost always underestimate it and that could land you in hot water if you're pulled over and asked to explain why you were crossing the solid white line
I's also handy to remember this if you're waiting to pull out a junction. That bike might be coming towards you much much faster than you think. Many assume that if the bike is more than 20m up the road they can pull out. If the bike is doing 20mph that's going to result in a nasty accident. Going downhill the bike could easily be doing 40mph+. out of shame. Seriously. Most road cyclists can maintain an average somewhere north of 14/15mph, with most, even the fatties/unfities like myself able to hold 17/18mph for long periods, except when climbing of course.I've just got back to cycling after a 6 month total lay-off, and am averaging 10mph off road, up and down hills and through dense woodland on 2.1 inch wide knobbly tyres. Put me back on the road on a 23mm tyre, a lighter bike and higher gearing, and I would hope to be back to around 15/16mph.
As a sample, I used to have a 21 mile loop that I rode 3 times a week, minimum. My PB for that route was 17.8mph average, my lowest ebb was 14.8mph average, and I regularly tackled it in the dark at 15/16mph averages. That was on undulating rural roads.
Two more random picks - a 47 miler at 15.1mph average, and my longest solo effort, 103 miles ridden at an average speed of 15.4mph - these aren't boasts, either. There are plenty fitter/faster cyclists than me, and when we ride in groups we tend to get quicker by sharing the workload at the front. My average speeds over any given distance took a bit of a tumble when I moved back to Farnborough, because the hills around these parts are more significant, but even here I was riding 14/15mph averages.
My point? Don't kid yourself about the speeds a road bike is capable of holding onto. You'll almost always underestimate it and that could land you in hot water if you're pulled over and asked to explain why you were crossing the solid white line
vonhosen said:
Vipers said:
Skyrat said:
R0G said:
V8RX7 said:
^^^This
I was prosecuted for crossing the dbl white line.
I overtook a car and as the road was clear I overtook a second.
I could have pulled back in sharper and not had my front wheels cross the dbl white (starting to go up a hill) but as I could see the road was clear for many hundreds of m I didn't as common sense said it was pointless.
Female cop, miles behind in unmarked camera car disagreed.
What speed was the car doing ?I was prosecuted for crossing the dbl white line.
I overtook a car and as the road was clear I overtook a second.
I could have pulled back in sharper and not had my front wheels cross the dbl white (starting to go up a hill) but as I could see the road was clear for many hundreds of m I didn't as common sense said it was pointless.
Female cop, miles behind in unmarked camera car disagreed.
You can't pass just any vehicle travelling at less than 10mph. You can pass a pedal cyclist, a horse, or a road maintenance vehicle that is in use & displaying the required sign to the rear.
If you were offside before the solid line started & only got back in after it had started you commit the offence.
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 17th May 17:28
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
Explain?
PS. Von, Just re-read your comment, are you referring to overtaking another car and not getting back before the solid line starts? As opposed to the vehicles you mentioned you can pass.
Edited by Vipers on Friday 17th May 20:58
Vipers said:
PS. Von, Just re-read your comment, are you referring to overtaking another car and not getting back before the solid line starts?
Re aboveThis
If you were offside before the solid line started & only got back in after it had started you commit the offence.
Vipers said:
As opposed to the vehicles you mentioned you can pass.
Re above (& separate to earlier point)You can't pass just any vehicle travelling at less than 10mph. You can pass a pedal cyclist, a horse, or a road maintenance vehicle that is in use & displaying the required sign to the rear.
vonhosen said:
Re above (& separate to earlier point)
You can't pass just any vehicle travelling at less than 10mph. You can pass a pedal cyclist, a horse, or a road maintenance vehicle that is in use & displaying the required sign to the rear.
Hi Von, got my fuzzy Saturday hat on, just to clarify then, you can cross a solid white line to pass a cyclists doing less than 10 mph, it being safe to do so.You can't pass just any vehicle travelling at less than 10mph. You can pass a pedal cyclist, a horse, or a road maintenance vehicle that is in use & displaying the required sign to the rear.
R0G said:
If there is no need to slow down then I suspect most including me could not tell the difference - nor the cop car behind me .....
It would be interesting to see a case where there is a dispute as to the speed of the bicycle. Whilst police are expert witnesses when it comes to speed (no training is given by the way) and can give their opinion, I'd see that as challengeable. If the driver of the overtaking car followed the bicycle for any distance and the speedo reading was 10mph or less than I would suggest any evidence to the contrary would have to be pretty strong.Vipers said:
vonhosen said:
Re above (& separate to earlier point)
You can't pass just any vehicle travelling at less than 10mph. You can pass a pedal cyclist, a horse, or a road maintenance vehicle that is in use & displaying the required sign to the rear.
Hi Von, got my fuzzy Saturday hat on, just to clarify then, you can cross a solid white line to pass a cyclists doing less than 10 mph, it being safe to do so.You can't pass just any vehicle travelling at less than 10mph. You can pass a pedal cyclist, a horse, or a road maintenance vehicle that is in use & displaying the required sign to the rear.
Streaky
streaky said:
Vipers said:
vonhosen said:
Re above (& separate to earlier point)
You can't pass just any vehicle travelling at less than 10mph. You can pass a pedal cyclist, a horse, or a road maintenance vehicle that is in use & displaying the required sign to the rear.
Hi Von, got my fuzzy Saturday hat on, just to clarify then, you can cross a solid white line to pass a cyclists doing less than 10 mph, it being safe to do so.You can't pass just any vehicle travelling at less than 10mph. You can pass a pedal cyclist, a horse, or a road maintenance vehicle that is in use & displaying the required sign to the rear.
Streaky
vonhosen said:
Vipers said:
PS. Von, Just re-read your comment, are you referring to overtaking another car and not getting back before the solid line starts?
Re aboveThis
If you were offside before the solid line started & only got back in after it had started you commit the offence.
Vipers said:
As opposed to the vehicles you mentioned you can pass.
Re above (& separate to earlier point)You can't pass just any vehicle travelling at less than 10mph. You can pass a pedal cyclist, a horse, or a road maintenance vehicle that is in use & displaying the required sign to the rear.
People passing would be committing an offence, though assuming they did so safely, a court may take a view that in the circumstances the offence was so minor and technical in nature that they hand down a conditional or absolute discharge.
You on the other hand would be up for s3 Careless/Inconsiderate.
You on the other hand would be up for s3 Careless/Inconsiderate.
So you can pass a road maintaince vehicle moving less than 10 mph, and here's one I googled earlier, just so know what we are talking about-
But you can't pass Mrs Mopp doodling along the same speed in a car, makes perfect sense to me ....................
If you can't pass Mrs Mopp, why can you pass a bloody truck?
But you can't pass Mrs Mopp doodling along the same speed in a car, makes perfect sense to me ....................
If you can't pass Mrs Mopp, why can you pass a bloody truck?
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