Game of Thrones - No spoilers
Discussion
redtwin said:
I have pretty much given up trying to keep track of the story line. I still enjoy watching the show, but mainly as several small "sketches" within rather than the story as a whole.
The ones I enjoy the most involve these characters:
Jerome and The Dwarf (would love a spinoff of just those two taking the piss out of each other)
Blonde Queen and the Dragons.
Old Lady (granddaughter marrying joffrey?) that puts everyone in their place.
Not too fussed about the others at the moment regardless of their importance to the story, but that could all change.
I think i'm with you on that...The ones I enjoy the most involve these characters:
Jerome and The Dwarf (would love a spinoff of just those two taking the piss out of each other)
Blonde Queen and the Dragons.
Old Lady (granddaughter marrying joffrey?) that puts everyone in their place.
Not too fussed about the others at the moment regardless of their importance to the story, but that could all change.
ZesPak said:
Let's just say that I suspect he's aiming to be the "Tolkien of the current time".
And he fails, it's nowhere near as good, be that subtle, intelligent or beautifully constructed. I don't think you can compare the two.TV programme is ok, looks good and the acting is good. But the little snippets of each story arc each week really impinge on the flow. I mean pretty much nothing has happened to Theon for three or four episodes now, except getting hideously tortured. It just seems a little gratuitous. We can imagine how much it would hurt, both physically and mentally, without having to be shown, especially when each week it doesn't really move the story on.
otolith said:
He doesn't have Tolkien's depth of invented histories, cultures and languages, but on the other hand his characters are much more nuanced. I don't think they are really the same sort of work.
I first read LOTR as a pre-teen some 30 years ago. I've re-read it many times since and I generally find Tolkien's stle to be a little long-winded. Yes, yes, I know the Misty Mountains are misty and mountainous. I really don't need three hundred pages detailing just how misty and mountainous said Misty Mountains are.I absolutely agree that the two works are vastly different and, these days, I much prefer the more direct styles of writing.
Tolkiens book could have been so much shorter - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD0swvWU
Highway Star said:
TV programme is ok, looks good and the acting is good. But the little snippets of each story arc each week really impinge on the flow. I mean pretty much nothing has happened to Theon for three or four episodes now, except getting hideously tortured. It just seems a little gratuitous. We can imagine how much it would hurt, both physically and mentally, without having to be shown, especially when each week it doesn't really move the story on.
I'd agree with this. I'd also agree with the person who said that this series has been disappointing, as mostly people just seem to be going somewhere. I think this entire series has just been exposition so far. So little has actually happened
The stories can not run at 100 miles an hour at all times. As people have said you really have to watch the show properly to see what is happening or going to happen. His books (and the show) have massive events that are built too slowly and properly and takes patience to enjoy properly.
Highway Star said:
pretty much nothing has happened to Theon for three or four episodes now, except getting hideously tortured. It just seems a little gratuitous. We can imagine how much it would hurt, both physically and mentally, without having to be shown, especially when each week it doesn't really move the story on.
The on going nature of it is the whole point, we all hate Theon, he betrayed the Starks, he had lil kids killed etc.... what an utter utter b
d. Oh look he's being tortured hahaha yeah he's getting what he deserves. More torture, well... not nice... but he did deserve it
More torture, aww come on thats a bit much now
More torture, thats terrible, I hope he gets freed soon!
The book was able to do it better, but maybe the show will follow the book's direction next week (week, rhymes with meek). It's a tool to turn our viewpoint on a dispicable unlovable person.
As for him being the new Tolkien, I'd say he's achieved it. What GRRM has done is to make something this good in an age where people are more fantasy-aware than when The Hobbit came out, we demand more, we bore more easily, we have more in our lives to distract us.
GRRM has made something amazing in this age.
Conian said:
The on going nature of it is the whole point, we all hate Theon, he betrayed the Starks, he had lil kids killed etc.... what an utter utter bd. Oh look he's being tortured hahaha yeah he's getting what he deserves.
More torture, well... not nice... but he did deserve it
More torture, aww come on thats a bit much now
More torture, thats terrible, I hope he gets freed soon!
The book was able to do it better, but maybe the show will follow the book's direction next week (week, rhymes with meek). It's a tool to turn our viewpoint on a dispicable unlovable person.
As for him being the new Tolkien, I'd say he's achieved it. What GRRM has done is to make something this good in an age where people are more fantasy-aware than when The Hobbit came out, we demand more, we bore more easily, we have more in our lives to distract us.
GRRM has made something amazing in this age.
Exactly. Im really liking the fact that you get to see theon totally destroyed as it will make him much more convincing compared to the books. d. Oh look he's being tortured hahaha yeah he's getting what he deserves. More torture, well... not nice... but he did deserve it
More torture, aww come on thats a bit much now
More torture, thats terrible, I hope he gets freed soon!
The book was able to do it better, but maybe the show will follow the book's direction next week (week, rhymes with meek). It's a tool to turn our viewpoint on a dispicable unlovable person.
As for him being the new Tolkien, I'd say he's achieved it. What GRRM has done is to make something this good in an age where people are more fantasy-aware than when The Hobbit came out, we demand more, we bore more easily, we have more in our lives to distract us.
GRRM has made something amazing in this age.
And GRRM is far superior to Tolkien. Unless GRRM introduces elves. I f
king hate elves! 
Now I hate to say I told you so but... 
Conian said:
As for him being the new Tolkien, I'd say he's achieved it. What GRRM has done is to make something this good in an age where people are more fantasy-aware than when The Hobbit came out, we demand more, we bore more easily, we have more in our lives to distract us.
GRRM has made something amazing in this age.
GRRM has made something amazing in this age.
and a very good point!Conian said:
The on going nature of it is the whole point, we all hate Theon, he betrayed the Starks, he had lil kids killed etc.... what an utter utter bd. Oh look he's being tortured hahaha yeah he's getting what he deserves.
More torture, well... not nice... but he did deserve it
More torture, aww come on thats a bit much now
More torture, thats terrible, I hope he gets freed soon!
The book was able to do it better, but maybe the show will follow the book's direction next week (week, rhymes with meek). It's a tool to turn our viewpoint on a dispicable unlovable person.
As for him being the new Tolkien, I'd say he's achieved it. What GRRM has done is to make something this good in an age where people are more fantasy-aware than when The Hobbit came out, we demand more, we bore more easily, we have more in our lives to distract us.
GRRM has made something amazing in this age.
So, it's basically fantasy for people with short attention spans? I'd pretty much agree with that and I'm not saying that in a perjorative sense either, he's writing for a market and very successfully. I guess we look for different things in our books, it's naturally a subjective thing. I've read GRRM's books and IMO they don't compare to Tolkein, nowhere near as immersive, subtle or allegorical, the writing is a lot more straightforward.d. Oh look he's being tortured hahaha yeah he's getting what he deserves. More torture, well... not nice... but he did deserve it
More torture, aww come on thats a bit much now
More torture, thats terrible, I hope he gets freed soon!
The book was able to do it better, but maybe the show will follow the book's direction next week (week, rhymes with meek). It's a tool to turn our viewpoint on a dispicable unlovable person.
As for him being the new Tolkien, I'd say he's achieved it. What GRRM has done is to make something this good in an age where people are more fantasy-aware than when The Hobbit came out, we demand more, we bore more easily, we have more in our lives to distract us.
GRRM has made something amazing in this age.
The Theon scenes, we just fast forward them, if I want to see someone getting tortured, I'll just watch Hostel. I know what happens and why it's there, IMO it's just a bit gratuitous and done for titillation, but then again, maybe I'm a bit old fashioned.
Either way, I'm enjoying the series, it's better than pretty much anything else on at the moment, I enjoy Thronecast as it features my mates wife every week, but IMO it's not a classic piece of TV.
Just hope GRRM can finish the books, he's no spring chicken and from the look of his Wiki page, he's not a well looking man!
Highway Star said:
So, it's basically fantasy for people with short attention spans? I'd pretty much agree with that and I'm not saying that in a perjorative sense either, he's writing for a market and very successfully. I guess we look for different things in our books, it's naturally a subjective thing. I've read GRRM's books and IMO they don't compare to Tolkein, nowhere near as immersive, subtle or allegorical, the writing is a lot more straightforward.
I guess you didn't read the forward to Fellowship of the Ring:JRRT said:
As for any inner meaning or "message", it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical or topical...I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done...
Personally I think that Tolkein was a great world-builder, but crap at actual storytelling. Martin is rather better at the latter I think, though his writing style is much more basic as you say.Highway Star said:
So, it's basically fantasy for people with short attention spans?
Kind of, but thats not the main point I'm making.Tolkien came in with something new and the world was stunned by it.
Since then we've had so many RPG games, so many vampires and zombies that nearly every idea has been done to death...... and then GRRM comes in with something amazing.
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