Discussion
clubracing said:
Yes, really. How can you not see that the decline of the Ma5da Cup was your fault? The healthy grids at the start of 2011 show that the concept is a good one, it's just your management that's failed.
Mixing the 'budget kit car' MX150Rs onto the Cup grid in 2011, a championship that was supposed to be 'high profile, single model for current production MX5s' put off a lot of drivers and started the decline. Then stopping promoting the Cup mid-season in only it's first year to focus on the MX150Rs just compounded the problem from then on and throughout 2012. Along with all the other failings I've mentioned already.
As another poster previously said...has getting 6 MX150Rs to race at Silverstone, after 2 years of promotion, been worth losing practically all the Mk3 and vast majority of Mk1's?
Yes you are correct. I wish we had simply doubled the cost of track time for the MK3 to ensure that it was financially viable? Do you think that would have worked.Mixing the 'budget kit car' MX150Rs onto the Cup grid in 2011, a championship that was supposed to be 'high profile, single model for current production MX5s' put off a lot of drivers and started the decline. Then stopping promoting the Cup mid-season in only it's first year to focus on the MX150Rs just compounded the problem from then on and throughout 2012. Along with all the other failings I've mentioned already.
As another poster previously said...has getting 6 MX150Rs to race at Silverstone, after 2 years of promotion, been worth losing practically all the Mk3 and vast majority of Mk1's?
Just thought you may like to Know the following:
Development cost of ECU £4800
Testing, Promotion track and attendance cost (Brands Hatch/Oulton park/Rockingham) £3400
Autosport 2009/2010/2011 (£3800 combined)
Advertising £2750
So £14,750 investment by Ma5da Racing in 2009/10/11 and 12.
More than you thought I am sure, but as everyone else has said you probably know more than anyone, so you must be right. mmm
PS the MX150's did not come out until 2011 and had there own grids, supported by MK1's and on two of 9 events they bolstered the MK3 grids, Brands and Croft.
You really to need to lay the blame else where on the MK3's. I know exactly what caused it and it was not the MX150.... Facts over assumptions.
Edited by blakey99 on Saturday 18th May 13:08
blakey99 said:
Yes you are correct. I wish we had simply doubled the cost of track time for the MK3 to ensure that it was financially viable? Do you think that would have worked.
Just thought you may like to Know the following:
Development cost of ECU £4800
Testing, Promotion track and attendance cost (Brands Hatch/Oulton park/Rockingham) £3400
Autosport 2009/2010/2011 (£3800 combined)
Advertising £2750
So £14,750 investment by Ma5da Racing in 2009/10/11 and 12.
More than you thought I am sure, but as everyone else has said you probably know more than anyone, so you must be right. mmm
PS the MX150's did not come out until 2011 and had there own grids, supported by MK1's and on two of 9 events they bolstered the MK3 grids, Brands and Croft.
You really to need to lay the blame else where on the MK3's. I know exactly what caused it and it was not the MX150.... Facts over assumptions.
The first race that the MX150R's shared the grid with the Mk3s during a championship round was at Croft 2011. Prior to the MX150Rs sharing the Cup races the grid average for the Cup was 19 cars, exceeding 20 cars at 3/4 of the meetings and with 26 cars at 3 of those meetings . The average is reduced mainly by the (understandably) small grid of 14 at Knockhill. At the Croft meeting when the MX150Rs shared the grid only 15 Mk3s ran. Just thought you may like to Know the following:
Development cost of ECU £4800
Testing, Promotion track and attendance cost (Brands Hatch/Oulton park/Rockingham) £3400
Autosport 2009/2010/2011 (£3800 combined)
Advertising £2750
So £14,750 investment by Ma5da Racing in 2009/10/11 and 12.
More than you thought I am sure, but as everyone else has said you probably know more than anyone, so you must be right. mmm
PS the MX150's did not come out until 2011 and had there own grids, supported by MK1's and on two of 9 events they bolstered the MK3 grids, Brands and Croft.
You really to need to lay the blame else where on the MK3's. I know exactly what caused it and it was not the MX150.... Facts over assumptions.
Many of the Mk3 drivers moved on to other racing at the end of 2011 but even before that from approximately half way through 2011 all of the Ma5da promotional work focused on the MX150Rs. Those costs were mainly incurred before 2011 but no one is accusing you of not doing a good job of promoting the Cup leading up to the 2011 season, as is shown by the healthy grids for the majority of 2011. It was that the focus and effort switched from the Cup to the MX150Rs before a stable basis for the Cup had been established and then it was neglected during 2012 while it was clearly in decline.
Myself and the majority of other people have the opinion that if it had not been for the introduction of the MX150Rs and their subsequent inclusion into the Cup races, coupled with the self-inflicted falling out with the BRSCC, then the Ma5da Cup championship would have gone from strength to strength.
Repeatedly stating that you know the 'true facts' and then not actually sharing them with anyone else does nothing to change peoples opinions on the matter. All it does is promote the rumours and make you look rather silly.
blakey99 said:
clubracing said:
Yes, really. How can you not see that the decline of the Ma5da Cup was your fault? The healthy grids at the start of 2011 show that the concept is a good one, it's just your management that's failed.
Mixing the 'budget kit car' MX150Rs onto the Cup grid in 2011, a championship that was supposed to be 'high profile, single model for current production MX5s' put off a lot of drivers and started the decline. Then stopping promoting the Cup mid-season in only it's first year to focus on the MX150Rs just compounded the problem from then on and throughout 2012. Along with all the other failings I've mentioned already.
As another poster previously said...has getting 6 MX150Rs to race at Silverstone, after 2 years of promotion, been worth losing practically all the Mk3 and vast majority of Mk1's?
Yes you are correct. I wish we had simply doubled the cost of track time for the MK3 to ensure that it was financially viable? Do you think that would have worked.Mixing the 'budget kit car' MX150Rs onto the Cup grid in 2011, a championship that was supposed to be 'high profile, single model for current production MX5s' put off a lot of drivers and started the decline. Then stopping promoting the Cup mid-season in only it's first year to focus on the MX150Rs just compounded the problem from then on and throughout 2012. Along with all the other failings I've mentioned already.
As another poster previously said...has getting 6 MX150Rs to race at Silverstone, after 2 years of promotion, been worth losing practically all the Mk3 and vast majority of Mk1's?
Just thought you may like to Know the following:
Development cost of ECU £4800
Testing, Promotion track and attendance cost (Brands Hatch/Oulton park/Rockingham) £3400
Autosport 2009/2010/2011 (£3800 combined)
Advertising £2750
So £14,750 investment by Ma5da Racing in 2009/10/11 and 12.
More than you thought I am sure, but as everyone else has said you probably know more than anyone, so you must be right. mmm
PS the MX150's did not come out until 2011 and had there own grids, supported by MK1's and on two of 9 events they bolstered the MK3 grids, Brands and Croft.
You really to need to lay the blame else where on the MK3's. I know exactly what caused it and it was not the MX150.... Facts over assumptions.
Edited by blakey99 on Saturday 18th May 13:08
Edited by speedy7 on Saturday 18th May 21:39
speedy7 said:
ECU ? WHAT your having a laugh there........ The reprogram just over fuels them thats why you had so many engines go BANG
Very few Mk3 race car engines have gone "bang" They are the bullet proof Duratec based unit. The ones that have failed have virtually all been as a result of continuing to race after the radiator has been punctured by a visit to the gravel trap.Edited by speedy7 on Saturday 18th May 21:39
This thread had DIED!!! Which attention seeking egocentric brought it back from oblivion?
Edited by bmwguy on Sunday 19th May 04:01
bmwguy said:
Very few Mk3 race car engines have gone "bang" They are the bullet proof Duratec based unit. The ones that have failed have virtually all been as a result of continuing to race after the radiator has been punctured by a visit to the gravel trap.
This thread had DIED!!! Which attention seeking egocentric brought it back from oblivion?
MGA lost 2 within the last 12 months and none had holes in rads and after selling Chrissy dad a sequential gearbox this week he tells me they lost them form over fueling on the map, Take the plugs out and have a look at them then tell me that there not over fueled...................This thread had DIED!!! Which attention seeking egocentric brought it back from oblivion?
Edited by bmwguy on Sunday 19th May 04:01
I presume the MGA cars don't have the 2012 update to the map? Having been raced in britcar the last couple of years.
I believe Chrissy Palmers engine failure at Knockhil in 2012 was the only one since the update which may have been unrelated to the map. Having said that I don't recall there being many failures before the update or see how running too rich could cause a failure?
ETA Though it was obviously felt that a change to the original map was needed to improve something in it.
I believe Chrissy Palmers engine failure at Knockhil in 2012 was the only one since the update which may have been unrelated to the map. Having said that I don't recall there being many failures before the update or see how running too rich could cause a failure?
ETA Though it was obviously felt that a change to the original map was needed to improve something in it.
Edited by clubracing on Sunday 19th May 11:18
Just for information, I raced with Ma5da from 2010 (first year the mk3's ran) and now race a mk3 since the start of 2012 and the only engines I recall actually going 'bang' were Adam Gores at Donington 2011 due I believe to a holed radiator and Chrissy at Knockhill in 2012, although I'm not 100% sure that did actually go bang as he's struggled with loose connections to something (possibly fuel) since then. I may have missed some, but usually a blown engine is pretty obvious at a meeting.
The re-map was changed at the start of 2012 and we were told it was to richen the mixture slightly to prevent damage to the pistons through running too lean, it also appeared to have little/no effect on power.
As an example, The engine in my car is a 64000 mile mk3 not 3.5 engine which has run on both fuel maps (car built for 2011 season) that has also been accidently over-revved (1st instead of 3rd gear
). It currently uses no-oil and during 2012 at no point did I feel it was down on power to Luke, Jordan or Chrissys cars. My experience of the mk3 2.0 engines is that they are pretty much bulletproof.
I know I've not helped here but there really is nothing more to say in this thread, it would dissapear if only someone would stop turning up a week after the last post with some more cryptic comments about 'facts'.
The re-map was changed at the start of 2012 and we were told it was to richen the mixture slightly to prevent damage to the pistons through running too lean, it also appeared to have little/no effect on power.
As an example, The engine in my car is a 64000 mile mk3 not 3.5 engine which has run on both fuel maps (car built for 2011 season) that has also been accidently over-revved (1st instead of 3rd gear
). It currently uses no-oil and during 2012 at no point did I feel it was down on power to Luke, Jordan or Chrissys cars. My experience of the mk3 2.0 engines is that they are pretty much bulletproof.I know I've not helped here but there really is nothing more to say in this thread, it would dissapear if only someone would stop turning up a week after the last post with some more cryptic comments about 'facts'.
speedy7 said:
another one then........
Ok....so we know of five Mk3 engines that have failed in four seasons of racing. Thats just over one per season amongst all the Mk3's racing in the UK. I would say that represents a very high level of reliablity! In most race series there is an engine failure at every meeting......Yet another argument why people should race in the MX5 Supercup...the engines are bullet proof!!!! (Well.... subject to driver error of course....most engine failures racing are caused by the driver)
I wasn't aware of Abbie blowing an engine as I didn't race at Combe, hopefully we'll see her back racing soon.
So that's 3 engine failures in 3.5 years of the cars racing (2010-2013) plus the two from MGA who are doing longer races on an old engine map?
I would say that's pretty good reliability for unmodified road engines and not out of the ordinary for a budget end one make championship.
As a comparison, at Knockhill in 2011 8 drivers blew engines in the mk1's at one meeting plus several more went throughout the season. I realise there is a price difference between a mk1 and mk3 engine second hand, but that quickly disappears when you can throw a mk3 engine straight in the car but a mk1 requires a good rebuild at significant additional cost to be competitive.
The best thing for anyone who is concerned about the reliability is to speak to a Mazda specialist such as Paul Sheared Autos/Roddisons Garage who also race them. They may also be able to point you in the direction of a cheap replacement for your blown engine. Alternatively speak to SanSpeed who provide the re-map.
ETA: Sorry, I've sort of duplicated what bmwguy has said here.
So that's 3 engine failures in 3.5 years of the cars racing (2010-2013) plus the two from MGA who are doing longer races on an old engine map?
I would say that's pretty good reliability for unmodified road engines and not out of the ordinary for a budget end one make championship.
As a comparison, at Knockhill in 2011 8 drivers blew engines in the mk1's at one meeting plus several more went throughout the season. I realise there is a price difference between a mk1 and mk3 engine second hand, but that quickly disappears when you can throw a mk3 engine straight in the car but a mk1 requires a good rebuild at significant additional cost to be competitive.
The best thing for anyone who is concerned about the reliability is to speak to a Mazda specialist such as Paul Sheared Autos/Roddisons Garage who also race them. They may also be able to point you in the direction of a cheap replacement for your blown engine. Alternatively speak to SanSpeed who provide the re-map.
ETA: Sorry, I've sort of duplicated what bmwguy has said here.
Edited by mattmk391 on Monday 20th May 14:10
Edited by mattmk391 on Monday 20th May 14:10
firenza43 said:
I think Abbies engine failure was due to a spark plug letting go and damaging valves, pistons etc. I think everybody now runs uprated plugs which to my knowledge there have been no problems with.
Hope Abbie is back for Cadwell.
The same as all the other, spark plug letting go TO MUCH FUEL.............. I can list 7 engines that went that way.Hope Abbie is back for Cadwell.
I am not trying to put a dampner on MK3's as I own 1
speedy7 said:
The same as all the other, spark plug letting go TO MUCH FUEL.............. I can list 7 engines that went that way.
I am not trying to put a dampner on MK3's as I own 1
It seems odd that your experience differs from those racing in the Cup and now SuperCup Championships. I am not trying to put a dampner on MK3's as I own 1
We changed our spark plugs for the start of this year having not changed them at all during 2012 and they looked fine when they were inspected on removal
Perhaps an issue with out of date map/wrong spec plugs combined with the longer length races in Britcar?
It also seems odd that as a mk3 owner you would (perhaps not intentionally) put such a negative spin on something which no-one racing in the Cup/Supercup considers an issue.
I personally don't see the appeal of racing any car in Britcar rather than it's own competitive one make championship, they just appear to be long lonely races at greater expense to me.
Why do that when you could be doing this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xk8uSqfBHo
mattmk391 said:
speedy7 said:
The same as all the other, spark plug letting go TO MUCH FUEL.............. I can list 7 engines that went that way.
I am not trying to put a dampner on MK3's as I own 1
It seems odd that your experience differs from those racing in the Cup and now SuperCup Championships. I am not trying to put a dampner on MK3's as I own 1
We changed our spark plugs for the start of this year having not changed them at all during 2012 and they looked fine when they were inspected on removal
Perhaps an issue with out of date map/wrong spec plugs combined with the longer length races in Britcar?
It also seems odd that as a mk3 owner you would (perhaps not intentionally) put such a negative spin on something which no-one racing in the Cup/Supercup considers an issue.
I personally don't see the appeal of racing any car in Britcar rather than it's own competitive one make championship, they just appear to be long lonely races at greater expense to me.
There is an issue/bug in the orignal ECU programme that over rides the earlier re-map and causes over fueling at different and totally random points of the rev range.
This issue was rectified in the 2012 map, with at the same time a new plug spec this solves the issue.
Secondly the engines do not 'go bang' they just loose a little power, as has mine (running the wrong plug). A replacement engine is about £1200 off the bay. A rebuild is £1700 from a top notch Duratec Builder.
Facts please people facts.
Sorry to resurrect.
So, what's happening Mr. Blake? What's with the "Japanese Invitational Races"?
Does Ma5da no longer exist?
Is it true you've been stopped from running your series by the MSA?
Are the rest of the planned rounds going to happen at all? MSV have said you're not racing at Cadwell on the 20th. Is this another "admin error"?
You seem to be very quiet now!
Does Ma5da no longer exist?
Is it true you've been stopped from running your series by the MSA?
Are the rest of the planned rounds going to happen at all? MSV have said you're not racing at Cadwell on the 20th. Is this another "admin error"?
You seem to be very quiet now!
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