Neat idea for securing that garage door

[SVS]

foxsasha said:

As has been said you dont want to go huge on external visible locks because then youre advertising that theres something worth protecting ...

Yeah, I used to think the same. Until I read police advice. Apparently, if your house looks well-protected, then the hassle will put off opportunist thieves.

People used to think that having a burglar alarm showed you had stuff worth nicking. Houses with alarms are burgled less often. Ditto with property marking. Shops with Smartwater signs didn't get looted in the last London riots (as Smartwater was quick to advertise!!).

[Skirmisheer]

There is now a video of GarageGuard explaining the product a little more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPVezIR2x9k

[SteelerSE]

Happy with mine though it's needed a bit of WD40 recently. The only hassle is getting the wife to use it - she is being particularly lazy though!

[Skirmisheer]

Can you please explain why it needed WD40? Any feedback about the product is very useful and I'll pass on the information to Squire.

[SteelerSE]

The lock was becoming very stiff and it was getting harder and harder to get the key in the lock. A couple of squirts of Wd40 in the lock sorted it out though.

[Skirmisheer]

Thanks for that. I'll pass that information on.

[SteelerSE]

Sadly I've had a problem with some of the interior screws literally falling out. it looks like they've rusted away which isn't good after four months. I've contacted the retailer about returning it.

[LordFlathead]

Skirmisheer said:

Hi there.

I just noticed from the website analytics that there was a lot of traffic coming from here so I thought I'd just have a look.
As the person who came up with the original idea for the GarageGuard product I can confirm that the lock mechanism is of a much higher quality than those you will find on the garage T handle locks.
The aim of the product, as you can see on the website, is to offer a first level of deterrence and security that stops the unobtrusive and quiet attacks including picking the lock or breaking the T handle.
The other big advantage is that, unlike all other garage devices, it requires no installation or DIY skills.

The product was only launched three months ago but it's already being sold in quite a lot of online retailers and hopefully some of the bigger companies will stock it soon too.

Edited by Skirmisheer on Tuesday 15th January 18:50

Hi Skirmisheer

This lock might seem like a good idea to the lucky majority that has not had their house/garage broken into, but it is not a viable way to protect a garage door from the professionals in my opinion. There are two kinds of thief; an opportunist and a professional. I would presume that this device is aimed at the opportunist? Given the choice of one garage with your lock on and one without, it would serve its purpose. However, most thieves would not see this as a threat to them as it is still relatively easy to bypass. Naturally I will not discus how this is done as this is a public forum but I can assure you that it is relatively easy with readily available tools.

The professionals will simply reverse up to the door in the small hours with a van, hook a chain under the door and pull the door off the hinges. Then they can throw your bike in the back and be gone in less than a minute.

The lock is not the issue (although your invention does provide a more secure approach). The security shortcoming is through the basic poor design of the door. This is due to the paper-thin metal sheet and bracketry, insecure hinges (fulcrum point), lack of ground anchoring, and the two thin arms that protrude from the door into the galvanised frame which are supposed to be the main securing method for the door.

The after-market ground anchors that physically bond the bottom of the door to the floor offer far better physical mechanical protection. The next best thing is remove the Henderson style door altogether and replace it with a continental electric roller shutter, installed so that the bottom slat protrudes into the concrete, thus rendering it a lot harder to remove with a grappling hook.

This post is not intended to devalue your product, but merely to raise awareness of the shortcomings of the basic up and over garage door design. As I have been on this site since it started, I felt obliged to offer the devils advocate view to bikers that might think that this product would be the ultimate in garage security. I sincerely wish you every success with your product.

[hornetrider]

What a thoroughly informative post Flathead

[RemaL]

One of the reasons why with what I have in my garage I need to get a better door then my up and over door. I can get into the garage from the back door and do secure it from inside as well but would like something a bit better than what I have now

[SVS]

RemaL, this could be useful info for you: http://thecrimepreventionwebsite.com/preventing-cr...

Do you know if you can upgrade the up-and-over mechanism to 4-point locking? This is often possible and a fairly cheap option. Though you should upgrade the lock cylinder to a high security cylinder too (also relatively inexpensive).

Interested to know any further views from Lord F.

Edited by SVS on Monday 20th May 21:28

[LordFlathead]

That site is extremely useful as it highlights the standards that security should be installed to.

Flatheads Mini Garage Security Review

Notice that the full 'paperwork protection' is not granted unless installed by an accredited security installer when replacing existing type doors. The advantage of using an accredited installer is that you should receive favourable quotes from your insurer and also you know that the items have been fitted to a recognised standard of workmanship. If you attempt to fit them yourselves you may fall short of the insurers requirements.

If your garage has an external 'passenger door' then I strongly recommend the use of Latham steel door sets, which include the steel frame as well as a multi-point locking mechanism similar to the way patio doors lock. As the door and the frame are steel, just looking at the door is enough to get most villains looking for an easier target. The basic costing steel door set it NOT suitable for the internal garage to house segregating door because it is not half-hour fire rated. However it is a tickable option but costs more - important to specify as you may invalidate your fire insurance should a claim be made and the building inspected.

The passenger door is often targeted when the car door faces into the street and both doors should be considered carefully as once the burglar managed to get inside the garage, he is free to beaver away at your internal door without being noticed. This brings me on to the next part..

Basics.. villains do not like to be seen. The best form of security is to make them stand out. At night do this with security PIR lights - 'they' won't stay round for long. If you want a cheap and reliable external deterrent sounding alarm, buy two 240v PIR detectors (as used to turn external lights on) and mount them either side of your garage vehicle door but pointing towards one another. Take the switched live outputs of each one and wire it to two 240v relays, connecting them so that they both have to come on together to output a live feed. Connect this live wire to a noisy siren, bell etc. You need BOTH detectors to activate to sound your alarm, and to do that 'they' need to be infront of your garage or they won't cross both beams. This means no false alarms. Put the supply to this system to a fused switched spur so you can turn it off from the inside of the garage.

Entrance to the garage where garage has a passenger door (highest risk as two points of entry).. Use the passenger door as the only primary entrance route to the garage. That way you can lock the main car garage door securely from the inside. Use ground anchors like those earlier in this thread. A garage door is audibly like a drum once the 'skin' is pinned top, bottom and sides.. if the villain is dumb enough to play it, plenty will hear One trick I have done for a customer who had an electric garage door opener (up and over), was to completely remove the handle from the outside and fit a blanking plate.. now try opening a recessed door with no handle! If you now lock the top of the door against the frame, with the motor attached the door is nigh on impossible to open. If there is a gap at the bottom of the door, rivet aluminium strip to stop hooks or other tools from being fed under the door. If they haven't got anything to get hold of they can't pull the door off. Also this stops all the leaves from blowing under.

Alarm.. if you already have a monitored alarm, call your alarm company in and ask for the garage to be fitted as an extra zone. They will use a more robust dual technology detector which should not false alarm. If you have a cheap and nasty house alarm (like Response etc) you are better off also buying a stand alone, stick on the wall alarm with a blip blip remote (about £15). It does the same job ie makes a nasty noise and gets neighbours complaining/looking over. A real simple secure fixing is to fix the loop end of the staple (hasp and staple) to the bottom inside edge of the garage vehicle door and use a motorcyle ground anchor mounted next to the door in the middle and join with a short security loop or chain and padlock. If you haven't got an anchor, simply use a climbing carabina attached to a rope that is fixed to the other end of the garage via a rawlbolt in the floor! You cannot open the door without removing it Ground anchors are the new king in garage/bike security. Don't mess around with any other chain get an Almax and preferably a Abus 562 lock, they are better than the Squire IMO and cheaper on ebay. When you've finished your security 'den' take a picture of the various security attributes in case you are broken into. The Police and the insurance company will benefit from seeing these if there is a break in as it shows plod that they are looking for a villain with a particular set of skills and it shows the insurance company that you've done everything in your power to reasonable protect your property.

CCTV cameras.. getting cheaper all the time. Do not buy fake cameras they are a joke. No camera on the market has a flashing red LED if you are dumb enough to buy one, you are saying, "Fake camera here burgle me" Good luck with that one! You are better off buying a real dome camera (£35) and not connecting it to anything. A villain will look out for a camera and will not take the chance. Hoodi wearers think they are immune to cameras, but it is not their face that gives them away, it is their posture!.. they are simple to identify by comparing other footage, plod is very switched on with this one.

I will update this tomorrow hope this helps

[B'stard Child]

LordFlathead said:

The next best thing is remove the Henderson style door altogether and replace it with a continental electric roller shutter, installed so that the bottom slat protrudes into the concrete, thus rendering it a lot harder to remove with a grappling hook.

Very usefull information and as I am about to replace my henderson up and over with a vertical roller shutter it's something I will do in preparation for fitting

The other thing I was advised was to set the door behind the existing pillars rather than having it running in a track in the apperture if you understand what I mean - my understanding was that this makes it harder to jemmy/pop the slats/door out of the guides

you do lose an inch or two of garage space but it is then much more secure

[LordFlathead]

Have a look at my (God damned bloody awful paint) picture.



The pros and cons are:

Side guides fitted to middle of the aperture

Pro's

• Allows long fixings into brickwork using up to 10" Fischer fixings (giant rawlplugs). Fixings are mounted in the centre of the brickwork so they allow for strong and long fixings without fear of cracking bricks during installation or an attack. This allows the highest fixing force for pulling the slat guides tight against the wall. As the overall width is less, it allows less flex on the door (slats) and resistance to pulling the slats out of the guides is greatly increased. This method offers the best strength for the fixings and the best strength against direct attacks.

Con's

• Reduces overall door aperture by the width of the side guides. On 'council' style garage doors, fitting the door this way can reduce the opening too much depending on the car that lives there! Of course, no problem if your lock up contains bikes

Side guides fitted to inside face of the wall

Pro's

• Allows a neater looking frontal with less door frame (guide) on show. Gives a cleaner appearance as the slats appear to go almost from buttress to buttress. Gives more width to the opening.

Con's

• Door guides are mounted partially concealed to the fixing from the guide to the brick work is mounted within a couple of inches of the edge of the brickwork. Although this is the most aesthetically pleasing option, it relies on the strength of engineering blocks to make it viable but even then it is not as strong as when fitted in the centre of the buttress. If you use normal brick or block-work, then there is insufficient hardness on the wall on the inside face which can lead to premature fixing failure when attacked due to the brick crumbling. After all bricks are brittle and designed to hold constant weight and not defend against striking (shock) attacks.

I have attended many break-ins and learnt a lot from the way criminals work and their impetuous nature of getting what they set out to get. The long and short of it is:

• If you have a lot of security, you buy more time
• If you have little security, thieves will constantly target you as an easy target and they will come again.
• It does not matter what security you have, if you are up against a professional, they will work out a way to make it theirs

^ The last comment does not apply to the majority of us, it is aimed at those that own priceless pictures and antiques etc

Edited by LordFlathead on Tuesday 21st May 17:08