No lanyard?

[Ayahuasca]

Similar accident happened where I live last year - a large wake capsized a dinghy (not even a RIB), the kill-cord wasn't worn, the boat circled back and the propeller chewed up a 15 year old girl's head and face. She died a few hours later.

[Seight_Returns]

Fishtigua said:

Forget Single-Handed, a fully crewed boat lost one just a couple of miles from our local marina this weekend.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-22...

Is it usual to arrest everyone else on a yacht when someone's lost overboard ? - or does this suggest there's more to this than a tragic accident ?

BBC said:

Rene Yves Louis Morvan, 63, was reported lost from the Jouvente shortly before 13:30 BST on Sunday.
A Guernsey Police spokesman said the three other men on board were arrested, but have been released without charge and allowed to return to France while inquiries continued.

[Fishtigua]

Seight_Returns said:

Fishtigua said:

Forget Single-Handed, a fully crewed boat lost one just a couple of miles from our local marina this weekend.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-22...

Is it usual to arrest everyone else on a yacht when someone's lost overboard ? - or does this suggest there's more to this than a tragic accident ?

BBC said:

Rene Yves Louis Morvan, 63, was reported lost from the Jouvente shortly before 13:30 BST on Sunday.
A Guernsey Police spokesman said the three other men on board were arrested, but have been released without charge and allowed to return to France while inquiries continued.

They had a working VHF radio but decided to sail 4 hours back to Harbour rather than raise the alarm straight away.

Wouldn't you want a little chat with them?

[Ayahuasca]

Fishtigua said:

Seight_Returns said:

Fishtigua said:

Forget Single-Handed, a fully crewed boat lost one just a couple of miles from our local marina this weekend.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-22...

Is it usual to arrest everyone else on a yacht when someone's lost overboard ? - or does this suggest there's more to this than a tragic accident ?

BBC said:

Rene Yves Louis Morvan, 63, was reported lost from the Jouvente shortly before 13:30 BST on Sunday.
A Guernsey Police spokesman said the three other men on board were arrested, but have been released without charge and allowed to return to France while inquiries continued.

They had a working VHF radio but decided to sail 4 hours back to Harbour rather than raise the alarm straight away.

Wouldn't you want a little chat with them?

If you want to murder someone and get away with it, having them 'fall overboard' is pretty foolproof.

[Fishtigua]

No murder inquiry has been raised, more p!ss-poor seamanship. I think that carries a heavier sentence in Guernsey.

[MOTORVATOR]

Ayahuasca said:

If you want to murder someone and get away with it, having them 'fall overboard' is pretty foolproof.

Quietly, the wife can hear us.

[Seight_Returns]

Ayahuasca said:

If you want to murder someone and get away with it, having them 'fall overboard' is pretty foolproof.

Although your chances of getting away with it decrease considerably if you do it in the presence of 2 witnesses.

[hidetheelephants]

MAIB have released their preliminary report.

[wobert]

Interestingly, the prelim report makes no recommendations as to best practice to attach the cord to the driver, i.e. via a harness or BA.....given it's publication is to warn others, I'm surprised this info isn't included.

[Marcellus]

Yes but it does give the safety warning that Kill Cords should be used and refers the reader to the RYA best practice.

BTW there is not a clear definitive answer by the RYA on connecting Kill Cord to leg or Bouyancy Aid, different "Regional Inspectors" have different views.

[zed4]

fking RYA, the bane of our lives. Stuck behind several layers of regulations, management and restrictions.

Why on earth they recommend you wear a kill cord like that is beyond me. The photo on this webpage sums it up: http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/safteytips/Pages/...



There's a very good chance that kill cord will slip off the helmsman's leg, even more so if he's not wearing shoes. It happened to my girlfriend, it could happen again to someone else. The RYA can keep on recommending to wear it like this, I will always recommend my customers clip it onto their belt or lifejacket.

It's about time wet weather clothing came with a plastic toggle on the trousers to attach the kill cord too. Either that or wear the PWC style killcord which has the velcro wrap around strap. Wrap that around your leg and it will never come off.

[anonymous-user]

For all their reputation as the 'wild boys' of the water, all the Jet skiers I saw over the weekend in Poole harbour were attaching the kill cord to the life jacket.

Is this due to awareness of this incident or is it just more natural to do so on a jet ski due to the seating position?

[MOTORVATOR]

zed4 said:

fking RYA, the bane of our lives. Stuck behind several layers of regulations, management and restrictions.

Very much agree with you on RYA Dan. If you see the stuff they do interfere with then the stuff they stand back from in the racing world you become aware that they have become an organisation more interested in protecting themselves and earning money from training than providing useful assistance.

As for Ribs I would have expected to see recommendation for all at risk of falling overboard to wear a stop device. Had that been the case with Charlie Hutton last year then he may still be with us, an incident strangely not investigated by MAIB.

If you want your family to be safe on a rib or other low sided boat and find kill cords restrictive then think about getting wireless proximity transmitters for everybody on board but be aware they also do nothing if you just chuck them under a seat.

[Ayahuasca]

Rum Runner said:

mph1977 said:

single handers in sailing vessels either clip on or trail a rope

a tiller on a sailing vessel not held by hand or a tiller pilot / vane will tend to push 'away' and cause the boat to come head to wind

Most sailing vessels will round to windward and flog sails. It is something called lead. The centre of effort of the sail plan is aft of the centre of effort of the lift produced by the keel, which is your pivot point. Some boats can be very well balanced and have minimum weather helm as its known. Similar to understeer I suppose. Built in for feel and safety.
However certain sail configurations can make the boat turn down wind and gather pace rather than turn head to wind and stop. In training we get dinghy sailors to steer a triangular course without a rudder while adjusting the effort in the sail plan to make the boat turn to or away from the wind and moving centre board position (keel but not fixed) to adjust the CE of that also.

Edited by Rum Runner on Sunday 12th May 22:01

Not with an autopilot set! They should make a remote 'kill button' for the autopilot (or for an outboard engine for that matter)so that an overboard crewman can turn it off.

[zed4]

Ayahuasca said:

Rum Runner said:

mph1977 said:

single handers in sailing vessels either clip on or trail a rope

a tiller on a sailing vessel not held by hand or a tiller pilot / vane will tend to push 'away' and cause the boat to come head to wind

Most sailing vessels will round to windward and flog sails. It is something called lead. The centre of effort of the sail plan is aft of the centre of effort of the lift produced by the keel, which is your pivot point. Some boats can be very well balanced and have minimum weather helm as its known. Similar to understeer I suppose. Built in for feel and safety.
However certain sail configurations can make the boat turn down wind and gather pace rather than turn head to wind and stop. In training we get dinghy sailors to steer a triangular course without a rudder while adjusting the effort in the sail plan to make the boat turn to or away from the wind and moving centre board position (keel but not fixed) to adjust the CE of that also.

Edited by Rum Runner on Sunday 12th May 22:01

Not with an autopilot set! They should make a remote 'kill button' for the autopilot (or for an outboard engine for that matter)so that an overboard crewman can turn it off.

Something like the Raymarine MOB system, but that also kills the engine/autopilot.

I'm sure making something with proximity sensors and outputs to cut the kill cord wires or NMEA outputs to shut down autopilots wouldn't be too difficult.

[NomduJour]

Friend's son is in the same class at school as the boy who has lost his foot - unpleasant business.

I think I would investigate a prop guard on a leisure boat.

[surveyor]

NomduJour said:

Friend's son is in the same class at school as the boy who has lost his foot - unpleasant business.

I think I would investigate a prop guard on a leisure boat.

They'd still get a nasty bump on the head. Attaching the bloody lanyard would be the answer.

[zed4]

NomduJour said:

Friend's son is in the same class at school as the boy who has lost his foot - unpleasant business.

I think I would investigate a prop guard on a leisure boat.

I'm the UK distributor for Propguard if you do want one.

[Rum Runner]

zed4 said:

Something like the Raymarine MOB system, but that also kills the engine/autopilot.

I'm sure making something with proximity sensors and outputs to cut the kill cord wires or NMEA outputs to shut down autopilots wouldn't be too difficult.

Yes different story with autohelm on.
Good story for you a certain charter company in St.Lucia had a couple take a boat down Island to St.Vincent (29 mile open water passage). It was strange day for the Carib with not a lot of trade wind breeze, so the husband decided to go a swim off a line whilst under sail ( Naked and so was the wife ) The wind filled in quickly as there is a 3000ft volcano at the south side of the passage on St. Vincent and cold air can drop from the top. He then struggled to get back in the boat, his wife tried to help and she went in...boat sailed off south. Sometime later a local charter skipper was sailing along the rhum line when he found 2 naked people in the water 10-15 miles from land !. If they had drifted a little further east with the 1 knot of trade wind current from the transit line between the Island they would have been chum.
The boat was washed up around 500 miles North In Puerto Rico on sandy beach with very little damage 2 weeks later.

Edited by Rum Runner on Saturday 18th May 17:01

[zed4]

Rum Runner said:

Yes different story with autohelm on.
Good story for you a certain charter company in St.Lucia had a couple take a boat down Island to St.Vincent (29 mile open water passage). It was strange day for the Carib with not a lot of trade wind breeze, so the husband decided to go a swim off a line whilst under sail ( Naked and so was the wife ) The wind filled in quickly as there is a 3000ft volcano at the south side of the passage on St. Vincent and cold air can drop from the top. He then struggled to get back in the boat, his wife tried to help and she went in...boat sailed off south. Sometime later a local charter skipper was sailing along the rhum line when he found 2 naked people in the water 10-15 miles from land !. If they had drifted a little further east with the 1 knot of trade wind current from the transit line between the Island they would have been chum.
The boat was washed up around 500 miles North In Puerto Rico on sandy beach with very little damage 2 weeks later.

Edited by Rum Runner on Saturday 18th May 17:01

That's very embarrassing! The shame! They were very lucky though.