MX5 v 200SX v MR2 v ?
Discussion
I've currently got an mx5, but am thinking I want something a bit quicker, but am undecided as to what.
My budget is around £5k and I'd like something fairly quick (~200bhp) but has to be reliable and cheap to run as it'll be doing 200 miles a week. It seems that I like 90's Jap cars, but that isn't something deliberate, so I may have missed out on other potential options.
I've shortlisted a 200sx, an MR2 turbo or possibly going down the FI mx5 route.
Can anyone point out any advantages /disadvantages these options may have over each other? For example, I know the running costs of an mx5 are pretty minimal, and I know I can get about 30mpg out of one, but I don't know the same details for the MR2 tub (~25mpg?) or a 200SX (I'm considering s13 & s14).
I've read a couple of buyers' guides, but whilst they're useful they don't compare the cars I'm looking at, so it's difficult to tell which would be more reliable/cheaper to maintain.
I don't want anything too basic, such as an Elise or a kit car (I've done the bike engined car thing before, and don't think I could put up with the commute in it!). I've considered an S2000 but the insurance is a killer, and having driven them before I'm not overly enamoured with them... I'd also probably prefer something with a roof, or at least a car which has the option of a hardtop.
TIA
My budget is around £5k and I'd like something fairly quick (~200bhp) but has to be reliable and cheap to run as it'll be doing 200 miles a week. It seems that I like 90's Jap cars, but that isn't something deliberate, so I may have missed out on other potential options.
I've shortlisted a 200sx, an MR2 turbo or possibly going down the FI mx5 route.
Can anyone point out any advantages /disadvantages these options may have over each other? For example, I know the running costs of an mx5 are pretty minimal, and I know I can get about 30mpg out of one, but I don't know the same details for the MR2 tub (~25mpg?) or a 200SX (I'm considering s13 & s14).
I've read a couple of buyers' guides, but whilst they're useful they don't compare the cars I'm looking at, so it's difficult to tell which would be more reliable/cheaper to maintain.
I don't want anything too basic, such as an Elise or a kit car (I've done the bike engined car thing before, and don't think I could put up with the commute in it!). I've considered an S2000 but the insurance is a killer, and having driven them before I'm not overly enamoured with them... I'd also probably prefer something with a roof, or at least a car which has the option of a hardtop.
TIA
Are you doing mostly town driving? I can never get 30mpg out of my MX5, mixed town and runs (must be my driving style haha).
Spoke to a guy who has a turbo mk2 mx5, he was saying that it's still ok on fuel, unless you're constantly punching it, and then it drops off quite sharply.
How about a DC2 Integra? Not quite 200bhp, but meant to be great fun, and VTEC... Yo.
Spoke to a guy who has a turbo mk2 mx5, he was saying that it's still ok on fuel, unless you're constantly punching it, and then it drops off quite sharply.
How about a DC2 Integra? Not quite 200bhp, but meant to be great fun, and VTEC... Yo.
Edited by Lanxx on Thursday 23 May 09:58
Edited by Lanxx on Thursday 23 May 10:03
My MX5 did 25mpg as standard. It then did 25mpg after I put a turbo on it. Its only 160bhp, but that was enough to have third gear traction issues/fun in a straight line in the wet. Going sideways is always an option.
My 200SX was an S13 and mostly broken. It was also a lot less fun to drive. The S14 is supposed to be more comfy and more reliable, but I've never driven one.
My mk2 MR2 was much more fun to drive than the 200SX, more comfortable than the MX5, and with decent tyres a really good car to blat down a B-road in. It wasn't a turbo, but I didn't really need it to be any faster than it was.
I had the MR2 for 7 years, the MX5 for 7 years and the 200SX for six months.
A BMW 328/330 would be at about the power level you want.
My 200SX was an S13 and mostly broken. It was also a lot less fun to drive. The S14 is supposed to be more comfy and more reliable, but I've never driven one.
My mk2 MR2 was much more fun to drive than the 200SX, more comfortable than the MX5, and with decent tyres a really good car to blat down a B-road in. It wasn't a turbo, but I didn't really need it to be any faster than it was.
I had the MR2 for 7 years, the MX5 for 7 years and the 200SX for six months.
A BMW 328/330 would be at about the power level you want.
I looked into a few different cars when looking to import from Japan.
The 200sx is more of a tourer, than a 'hoon' machine when standard, IMHO. Very nice car though. Bloody comfortable, and great looking. It didn't feel anywhere near the pull at higher speeds than there was in my MR2 Turbo. The 200 has a huge aftermarket scene, and can be made to perform however you wish with some modification.
I never quite got the MX5 thing. Underpowered, and never felt anywhere near as sharp as my NA MR2. Not driven a turbo/SC version though, so can't comment on those. As with the 200, huge aftermarket scene for them, so you should be able to get it how you wish. I could never get used to the rather feminine looks of the MX5 compared to the MR2 or the 200.
Loved my MR2 Turbo. In stock form fast, with respectable figures, and really sharp handling, as well as being the most comfortable seating position I've sat in. Decent boot, and the engine is great for more power. Great looking, IMHO, and the mid-engine sound behind your head is superb. Mpg when off boost, (easy to do when driving normally), you could get into the 30's if memory serves.
Other options... What about a 300zx? No idea how much they go for, but a real bruiser.
The 200sx is more of a tourer, than a 'hoon' machine when standard, IMHO. Very nice car though. Bloody comfortable, and great looking. It didn't feel anywhere near the pull at higher speeds than there was in my MR2 Turbo. The 200 has a huge aftermarket scene, and can be made to perform however you wish with some modification.
I never quite got the MX5 thing. Underpowered, and never felt anywhere near as sharp as my NA MR2. Not driven a turbo/SC version though, so can't comment on those. As with the 200, huge aftermarket scene for them, so you should be able to get it how you wish. I could never get used to the rather feminine looks of the MX5 compared to the MR2 or the 200.
Loved my MR2 Turbo. In stock form fast, with respectable figures, and really sharp handling, as well as being the most comfortable seating position I've sat in. Decent boot, and the engine is great for more power. Great looking, IMHO, and the mid-engine sound behind your head is superb. Mpg when off boost, (easy to do when driving normally), you could get into the 30's if memory serves.
Other options... What about a 300zx? No idea how much they go for, but a real bruiser.
Edited by TheHeretic on Thursday 23 May 10:26
I had two S14#s. both Tourings. Decent kit - leather, a/c, LSD. As standard they are a bit laggy off the line.
On the second one I had an HKS cat-back exhaust and induction kit. Removed all the lag and took in from 200lb/ft 200 bhp to 240bhp and probably a similar amount of torque. Helped in terms of unsticking the rear in the dry.
I also added a better head unit, speakers and a small (bazooka) sub to that one which rounded out the sound.
Having the bazooka maintained the useability - the rear seats fold so you can get a surprising amount into one. I used to get my MTB in and I brought a table football table back from Andorra via the Pyrennees.
Speaking of which it was fabulous on the mountain passes and very good on the mways.
The only thing I didb't like so much was the steering - the rack was a bit slow for my taste but I suppose it all fitted with the GT image.
If you were to get one I'd suggest a facelift Touring with a stainless exhaust as a good starting point.
On the second one I had an HKS cat-back exhaust and induction kit. Removed all the lag and took in from 200lb/ft 200 bhp to 240bhp and probably a similar amount of torque. Helped in terms of unsticking the rear in the dry.
I also added a better head unit, speakers and a small (bazooka) sub to that one which rounded out the sound.
Having the bazooka maintained the useability - the rear seats fold so you can get a surprising amount into one. I used to get my MTB in and I brought a table football table back from Andorra via the Pyrennees.
Speaking of which it was fabulous on the mountain passes and very good on the mways.
The only thing I didb't like so much was the steering - the rack was a bit slow for my taste but I suppose it all fitted with the GT image.
If you were to get one I'd suggest a facelift Touring with a stainless exhaust as a good starting point.
Lanxx said:
Are you doing mostly town driving? I can never get 30mpg out of my MX5, mixed town and runs (must be my driving style haha).
Spoke to a guy who has a turbo mk2 mx5, he was saying that it's still ok on fuel, unless you're constantly punching it, and then it drops off quite sharply.
How about a DC2 Integra? Not quite 200bhp, but meant to be great fun, and VTEC... Yo.
My commute is 1/3 B roads, 1/3 motorway and 1/3 town, but I tend to keep to 70 on the motorway so it helps with the mpg a bit (and stops me being deafened by wind noise!). From what I've read a FI mx5 should use about the same fuel as a standard one if you're not on boost, which makes sense.Spoke to a guy who has a turbo mk2 mx5, he was saying that it's still ok on fuel, unless you're constantly punching it, and then it drops off quite sharply.
How about a DC2 Integra? Not quite 200bhp, but meant to be great fun, and VTEC... Yo.
I quite like DC2s, but I want a RWD really...
Captain Muppet said:
My MX5 did 25mpg as standard. It then did 25mpg after I put a turbo on it. Its only 160bhp, but that was enough to have third gear traction issues/fun in a straight line in the wet. Going sideways is always an option.
My 200SX was an S13 and mostly broken. It was also a lot less fun to drive. The S14 is supposed to be more comfy and more reliable, but I've never driven one.
My mk2 MR2 was much more fun to drive than the 200SX, more comfortable than the MX5, and with decent tyres a really good car to blat down a B-road in. It wasn't a turbo, but I didn't really need it to be any faster than it was.
I had the MR2 for 7 years, the MX5 for 7 years and the 200SX for six months.
A BMW 328/330 would be at about the power level you want.
This puts me of 200SXs! I've heard they can be a bit of a pain... My 200SX was an S13 and mostly broken. It was also a lot less fun to drive. The S14 is supposed to be more comfy and more reliable, but I've never driven one.
My mk2 MR2 was much more fun to drive than the 200SX, more comfortable than the MX5, and with decent tyres a really good car to blat down a B-road in. It wasn't a turbo, but I didn't really need it to be any faster than it was.
I had the MR2 for 7 years, the MX5 for 7 years and the 200SX for six months.
A BMW 328/330 would be at about the power level you want.
I've never driven an MR2, but the mid engined thing puts me off a bit, as I enjoy a bit of sideways action in the mx5, and I suspect the MR2 wouldn't be as fun in this respect?
I don't think I can face having a BMW - I've got an unjustified prejudice against them for some reason!
TheHeretic said:
Loved my MR2 Turbo. In stock form fast, with respectable figures, and really sharp handling, as well as being the most comfortable seating position I've sat in. Decent boot, and the engine is great for more power. Great looking, IMHO, and the mid-engine sound behind your head is superb. Mpg when off boost, (easy to do when driving normally), you could get into the 30's if memory serves.
Other options... What about a 300zx? No idea how much they go for, but a real bruiser.
How reliable was the MR2 Turbo? I've know a bloke who has a garage which specialises in MR2s, so it's kind of tempting to go along this route as I know I can get things looked at, but I'm still not 100% convinced it'd be as fun as the mx5!Other options... What about a 300zx? No idea how much they go for, but a real bruiser.
I quite like the look of 300ZXs, but I suspect they'd not be all that fun to chuck around and a bit of money pit...
LuS1fer said:
Mike Brewer will find you a Boxster S for that....
Not really a fan, and running costs would be too high I think.How much per year do these cars typically cost to maintain (I know it's a very difficult question, but ballpark figures)?
£500/year is more than enough for me to look after the mx5 (for the odd replacement part, servicing & consumables, doing most spannering myself), would this typically be the case for the MR2 and 200SX? I suspect the 200SX is the most expensive to look after?
Are you open to the idea of front-wheel drive? I'm pondering a similar selection for my next purchase, but with the DC2 Integra added in.
A friend had a n/a mk2 MR2 when I had my previous MX-5. Oddly, the Toyota felt quite a bit quicker, but there was nothing to choose between them from a rolling start. Do quite like the baby supercar feel.
A friend had a n/a mk2 MR2 when I had my previous MX-5. Oddly, the Toyota felt quite a bit quicker, but there was nothing to choose between them from a rolling start. Do quite like the baby supercar feel.
AC43 said:
On the second one I had an HKS cat-back exhaust and induction kit. Removed all the lag and took in from 200lb/ft 200 bhp to 240bhp and probably a similar amount of torque. Helped in terms of unsticking the rear in the dry.
40 bhp from a cat-back and induction kit?I'm calling shenanigans!
Mellow Matt said:
Captain Muppet said:
My MX5 did 25mpg as standard. It then did 25mpg after I put a turbo on it. Its only 160bhp, but that was enough to have third gear traction issues/fun in a straight line in the wet. Going sideways is always an option.
My 200SX was an S13 and mostly broken. It was also a lot less fun to drive. The S14 is supposed to be more comfy and more reliable, but I've never driven one.
My mk2 MR2 was much more fun to drive than the 200SX, more comfortable than the MX5, and with decent tyres a really good car to blat down a B-road in. It wasn't a turbo, but I didn't really need it to be any faster than it was.
I had the MR2 for 7 years, the MX5 for 7 years and the 200SX for six months.
A BMW 328/330 would be at about the power level you want.
This puts me of 200SXs! I've heard they can be a bit of a pain... My 200SX was an S13 and mostly broken. It was also a lot less fun to drive. The S14 is supposed to be more comfy and more reliable, but I've never driven one.
My mk2 MR2 was much more fun to drive than the 200SX, more comfortable than the MX5, and with decent tyres a really good car to blat down a B-road in. It wasn't a turbo, but I didn't really need it to be any faster than it was.
I had the MR2 for 7 years, the MX5 for 7 years and the 200SX for six months.
A BMW 328/330 would be at about the power level you want.
I've never driven an MR2, but the mid engined thing puts me off a bit, as I enjoy a bit of sideways action in the mx5, and I suspect the MR2 wouldn't be as fun in this respect?
I don't think I can face having a BMW - I've got an unjustified prejudice against them for some reason!
I used to compete in the BDC, so I like going sideways. The MX5 is easy to slide, but the MR2 wasn't difficult to slide around in. It was a bit snappy on rubbish tyres, but on a set of matching tyres it was good fun. Winter commuting in it was particularly hilarious.
My immediate reaction was RX7, but then reliability and fuel economy, and my reaction was 'dear God, not an RX7'.
As standard, the S14 is more of a tourer, but can be sharpened up a fair bit. I had 2 - the first was a simple breathing modded, boost upped, everything done as well as I could afford type car. It was a great car, but I spent the entire ownership trying to make it as much fun as my other half's MX5. It never was. What it was, however, was pretty quick on it's feet when needed (think it was around 260ish), handled OK (on Tein Flex with many braces and polybushes) and good looking to these eyes. It was also incredibly reliable - in the night on 3 years I owned it, the only problems it ever had were self imposed by my poor skills.
Second was a slightly scruffy daily modded on the cheap with adapted parts and SH bargains. It was a great quick daily, but hampered by the autobox. Only issue that had in a year and a half was a coilpack. Fixed cheap SH.
Provided the oil has been changed, the SR20 is a very tough, reliable engine. The bodies are susceptible to rust though. Sills/Arches/subframe mounting areas, front inner arches and turret tops are the main places that spring to mind.
Some peopel insist they are sports cars - they aren't - they are tourers with a good turn of speed that can be made to handle pretty well if you throw money at them.
DC2 is a great shout - hilarious fun, and you feel like you can drive 10/10ths the whole time, because 10/10 throttle isn't super quick. And so rewarding. They don't feel FWD, it feels like they're driven somewhere under the driver's seat
Ours was immensely reliable, took heaps of abuse.In 2 and a half years of track days, holidays, house moves, brick lugging, and general kicking in of the head, not a single thing went wrong. Utterly brilliant.
Manual 200SX got somewhere around 27mpg in mixed daily driving, Auto more like 24. Both were low 30's on a run IIRC.
DC2 would be somewhere in the high 20's day to day, nearly 40 on a 70mphish run.
As standard, the S14 is more of a tourer, but can be sharpened up a fair bit. I had 2 - the first was a simple breathing modded, boost upped, everything done as well as I could afford type car. It was a great car, but I spent the entire ownership trying to make it as much fun as my other half's MX5. It never was. What it was, however, was pretty quick on it's feet when needed (think it was around 260ish), handled OK (on Tein Flex with many braces and polybushes) and good looking to these eyes. It was also incredibly reliable - in the night on 3 years I owned it, the only problems it ever had were self imposed by my poor skills.
Second was a slightly scruffy daily modded on the cheap with adapted parts and SH bargains. It was a great quick daily, but hampered by the autobox. Only issue that had in a year and a half was a coilpack. Fixed cheap SH.
Provided the oil has been changed, the SR20 is a very tough, reliable engine. The bodies are susceptible to rust though. Sills/Arches/subframe mounting areas, front inner arches and turret tops are the main places that spring to mind.
Some peopel insist they are sports cars - they aren't - they are tourers with a good turn of speed that can be made to handle pretty well if you throw money at them.
DC2 is a great shout - hilarious fun, and you feel like you can drive 10/10ths the whole time, because 10/10 throttle isn't super quick. And so rewarding. They don't feel FWD, it feels like they're driven somewhere under the driver's seat
Ours was immensely reliable, took heaps of abuse.In 2 and a half years of track days, holidays, house moves, brick lugging, and general kicking in of the head, not a single thing went wrong. Utterly brilliant.Manual 200SX got somewhere around 27mpg in mixed daily driving, Auto more like 24. Both were low 30's on a run IIRC.
DC2 would be somewhere in the high 20's day to day, nearly 40 on a 70mphish run.
amusingduck said:
AC43 said:
On the second one I had an HKS cat-back exhaust and induction kit. Removed all the lag and took in from 200lb/ft 200 bhp to 240bhp and probably a similar amount of torque. Helped in terms of unsticking the rear in the dry.
40 bhp from a cat-back and induction kit?I'm calling shenanigans!
'Stage 1' cars (decats, exhaust, air filter, plugs, pump, raised boost via boost controller) frequently make 270-280, and that can be done for £500 or so if you are savvy.
Lots of options.
300zx is a nice car but lots to go wrong and economy isnt its strong point. Less of a b-road tool but quicker than the other options. On the plus side for £5k you could buy one decent one and a snotter to use for spare parts. This one looks nice - http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/n...
R33 GTS is an option. Bit like the 300 but more practical and slightly less stuff to go wrong. Getting a bit GT car which not not be to your taste. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/n...
MK3 MR2 - does most things but for the power output. Vague chance you could fine one with a converted VVTL engine which should see 190bhp. Lower running costs than pretty much everything but the MX5 (though better of fuel). Not a lot of space in the car though.
328 Coupe or E36 M3 - must be a consideration surely
RX7 you might find a nice vaguely standard one for £5k.
Also worth considering the v6 conversions for the mk2 MR2. I had the thought of finding a leggy but straight UK spec late model car for around £1k and then paying the £3,500 odd for the 3.0 v6 conversion. Apparently it improves economy and sounds like a cracking car for a daily driver.
300zx is a nice car but lots to go wrong and economy isnt its strong point. Less of a b-road tool but quicker than the other options. On the plus side for £5k you could buy one decent one and a snotter to use for spare parts. This one looks nice - http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/n...
R33 GTS is an option. Bit like the 300 but more practical and slightly less stuff to go wrong. Getting a bit GT car which not not be to your taste. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/n...
MK3 MR2 - does most things but for the power output. Vague chance you could fine one with a converted VVTL engine which should see 190bhp. Lower running costs than pretty much everything but the MX5 (though better of fuel). Not a lot of space in the car though.
328 Coupe or E36 M3 - must be a consideration surely
RX7 you might find a nice vaguely standard one for £5k.
Also worth considering the v6 conversions for the mk2 MR2. I had the thought of finding a leggy but straight UK spec late model car for around £1k and then paying the £3,500 odd for the 3.0 v6 conversion. Apparently it improves economy and sounds like a cracking car for a daily driver.
If considering a 200SX I'd only be looking at Silvias(import 200SX).
Pretty much every UK 200 will have had or will require welding due to rust.
No many original examples around now, most were tuned and/or drifted.
Then there's the turbo gaskets which should be considered consumables once stage one.
How about a manual N/A Supra?
Excellent reliability, RWD, LSD, 220bhp and very comfortable to commute in assuming it's on OEM suspension.
In fact your budget would also stretch to a twin turbo automatic supra which is in another league performance wise.
Pretty much every UK 200 will have had or will require welding due to rust.
No many original examples around now, most were tuned and/or drifted.
Then there's the turbo gaskets which should be considered consumables once stage one.
How about a manual N/A Supra?
Excellent reliability, RWD, LSD, 220bhp and very comfortable to commute in assuming it's on OEM suspension.
In fact your budget would also stretch to a twin turbo automatic supra which is in another league performance wise.
Reliable and cheap to run definitely rules out the RX7. And I'd suggest the Z32 as well.
What about an Import Z33? Can easily pick up one for 5k now make sure it has Brembos and a reasonable interior, and you're good to go. Don't feel super fast compared to some, but should feel more so than the MX5
EDIT: Never changed a turbo gasket in nigh on 20k miles of 'stage 1' SX ownership, spread over 2 cars And if you do them properly, they don't go again for yonks.
What about an Import Z33? Can easily pick up one for 5k now
make sure it has Brembos and a reasonable interior, and you're good to go. Don't feel super fast compared to some, but should feel more so than the MX5 EDIT: Never changed a turbo gasket in nigh on 20k miles of 'stage 1' SX ownership, spread over 2 cars
And if you do them properly, they don't go again for yonks.Edited by FD3Si on Thursday 23 May 12:53
Have you considered a classic Impreza? STI models might be a bit outside of your running costs, but a UK Turbo 2000 will still be 208/214 bhp depending on year and can be bought for less than a grand. My best result on a dual carriageway run over 75 miles or so was 31.7 mpg worked out from fill to fill at the pump, however I'd probably take my own life if I had to drive like that every day, 25-26 mpg is more likely in day to day driving, though that can be lower if you're like me and you get addicted to that flat four rumble when you floor it!
Try woodsport for MR2 V6 info, Paul Woods is the V6 guru http://www.woodsport.org/joomla/index.php/engine-c...
I've had 4 MR2's and a 200sx S14a. Both are getting on a bit now but compared to the other jap stuff (Subaru, Skyline, evo) they are fairly cheap to run. Both cars have decent enthusiast forums with almost everything you need to know. So many are broken for spares that you can pick up almost anything used for a reasonable price. I've always been afraid of rotten cars but my last MR2 had rusted on both rear inner arches, inside the boot and the floor under the seat and I got it all welded up an sealed for £200, which you easily recuperate upon re-sale.
Best thing is to drive a few cars and see what you like, depending on chassis mods you can make either car handle how you want it, although I did find my modified S14A to be more fun and you don't see many around these days.
If either are already modified check very carefully over the mods that have been done (no manual boost controllers or ebay fuel pressure regulators etc)
http://www.woodsport.org/joomla/index.php/engine-c...I've had 4 MR2's and a 200sx S14a. Both are getting on a bit now but compared to the other jap stuff (Subaru, Skyline, evo) they are fairly cheap to run. Both cars have decent enthusiast forums with almost everything you need to know. So many are broken for spares that you can pick up almost anything used for a reasonable price. I've always been afraid of rotten cars but my last MR2 had rusted on both rear inner arches, inside the boot and the floor under the seat and I got it all welded up an sealed for £200, which you easily recuperate upon re-sale.
Best thing is to drive a few cars and see what you like, depending on chassis mods you can make either car handle how you want it, although I did find my modified S14A to be more fun and you don't see many around these days.
If either are already modified check very carefully over the mods that have been done (no manual boost controllers or ebay fuel pressure regulators etc)
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