Which guitar amp do you have?

[chris5150]

Do yourself a favour long term try an axe fx 2 through a pair quality active monitors....tis the future.

[Animal]

B17NNS said:

Still better to go smaller and drive the valves harder presumably? Haven't bought an amp in ages.

If you've got an amp that has both a channel volume and a master volume you can turn the master up, which will work the power valves hard and then control the overall output volume via the channel-specific volume. Still a compromise, but it's worked for me.

[12v3pot]

Animal said:

If you've got an amp that has both a channel volume and a master volume you can turn the master up, which will work the power valves hard and then control the overall output volume via the channel-specific volume. Still a compromise, but it's worked for me.

It may work for you, but that technique doesn't work the power valves harder.

If you want to work power valves hard and have lower room volume, you need an attenuator or an amp with VVR/PowerScaling.

[davepoth]

BorkFactor said:

Great replies, thanks! To be honest I never use any of the FX on my amp. I usually have it on the "green crunch" setting with the gain at around 6. it is a nice sounding amp, but you can't really hear the difference between my guitars like you can on a tube amp.

Hadn't really thought of the DSLs, I think the local guitar shop might have some of them in stock along with quite a few other nice amps so I am going to take a trip down tomorrow:

http://www.rbmusic.co.uk/amplification.asp?id=14

Any opinions on the new Marshall Vintage Moderns / JVMs?

Also with regards to smaller amps and driving them harder, that is something I am considering too. The Fender SuperSonic 22 sort of falls into that category, but will it really be loud enough for gigging with a drummer?

Definitely. Due to the differences between valves and transistors, the apparent volume of a valve amp is a lot louder than a identically watted and speakered solid state device.

http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes...

A rule of thumb is roughly 3 transistor watts to one valve watt if you want to make a comparison.

[Turn7]

chris5150 said:

Do yourself a favour long term try an axe fx 2 through a pair quality active monitors....tis the future.

Im hearing more and more about this setup, but Ive yet to hear one live.

[gbbird]

I have a marshal dsl401. Great amp, except for when it is up at marshalls h.q. getting new valves or pots fitted.

[chris5150]

I couldn't go back to a basic valve amp now after the Axe FX 2, it is so versatile, it solves the GAS problem, as you can just pick so many different amps/cabs/patches. It will do a good acoustic/12 string...all the effects are great. Always struggled with pedal boards & messing about the way they effected the pure valve amp sound, I was always constantly battling to get good sounds. Had a myriad of amps, as indeed most people do, lots of Mesa's/Matchless, 1969 plexi, Cornell, fender tweed, the list go's on & on.
Don't feel the need anymore the Axe does it plus so much more. Ok some valve purists will bemoan attack & 'breathability' of real valves,fine, but you have to get over that and just tweak to find your sounds you like. Its a fantastic bit of kit for getting great artist sounds too, Eddie, lets play along to panama..boom, lets go to a bit of U2, then a bit of acoustic...why when you have so much in one box would you want to use a 2 channel valve amp plugged into a load of old pedals?....as I say tis the future.
I really don't get anyone anymore spending in excess of £1500 buying a valve amp

[12v3pot]

I love the idea of the AxeFX, I like the recorded tones that I've heard, and I've been through many digital modellers, but ... they all have a significant issue: that maze of &#*! menus.

Like synths, that programming process suits a particular type of player.

And it's not me. (FWIW, my rack system is full of one-knob-per-function stuff.)

[Justin Cyder]

3000 Euros with the foot controller

For gigging, which was the op's question, you'd still need to put it through a cabinet of some description. For years I had Multi fx set ups for live work & I found that in the end, the sheer amount of choice works against the player. The temptation to chop & change, tweak & mess around with the patches leads to the absolute definition of never satisfied.

Others will love it for sure, but I'm happy with a bunch of wisiwyg stomp boxes, simplicity rules.

[Dr Z]

Turn7 said:

Im hearing more and more about this setup, but Ive yet to hear one live.

From what I've heard, there a lot of big names (mainly solo artists) that endorse this kit but very few live usage. Well used/known among the heavy rock/prog rock/metal genre. I think Chris Broderick (of Megadeth) uses them live.

All well and good for the versatility if you're a cover band trying to ape somebody else, but do you sound like yourself? Funny thing is these are pretty hard to track down to try in a guitar shop. I've seen the Kemper but not this. I guess, it appeals to the tweakers. Not for me. Give me a telecaster and a tweed deluxe. I'm happy.

ok, ok I may need a reverb pedal and a boost. oh and a good fuzz. I'm happy then!

[Animal]

12v3pot said:

Animal said:

If you've got an amp that has both a channel volume and a master volume you can turn the master up, which will work the power valves hard and then control the overall output volume via the channel-specific volume. Still a compromise, but it's worked for me.

It may work for you, but that technique doesn't work the power valves harder.

If you want to work power valves hard and have lower room volume, you need an attenuator or an amp with VVR/PowerScaling.

Probably all in my ears then! The only real solution was for me to open the patio doors and stand outside with the amp cranked up properly. Fortunately none of my neighbours appear to work shifts...

[chris5150]

Don't quite understand the 'how do you sound like yourself' comment. Surely the more options and sounds you have then the more chance you have of finding an individual sound. The Plexi /fender tweed etc is pretty much a sound that has been around for years, how many times is it 'oh yeah, eddies brown sound' or Jimi's or whatever people try to copy?.
Totally understand the simplicity route, after a couple of years with the Axe I went back to a Mesa roadking and used 4 channels period for all my sounds, was quite happy..BUT...the axe just keeps getting better & better, functionality and ease superb...yes you are right it comes at a price, but its certainly worth trying to play through one if you can.
Many many people are gigging with them in the USA....UK is a bit slower in the uptake with this sort of thing, not quite as receptive, quite expected the 'oh no I love my ( insert valve amp of choice, usually from well before 1976 ), nothing gives me MY sound like that'
All I am saying is if someone is asking about amps nowadays you are mad if you do not try an axe 2, its constantly getting new software & being refined, it will tone match any amp, it has tons of effects built in , and has easy programmability. If you got one now, then you may well save loads of money buying & selling many many amps. Most people who have played for a long time will say they are tone chasers, that's a bit of an excuse for GAS, of which it applies to me too, very much so. By the time you have been through many many amps the axe 2 will seem quite a bargain if you had just gone out and got one in the first place.
Rattled on enough, if you get chance try one, don't listen to those that state this amp or that amp is better that haven't actually tried an Axe 2...how can people who have not tried something compare it?
I would try a selection of good amps,the usual Marshalls,Mesa's, Vox's, Blackstars etc, an axe 2, and indeed a Kemper...once you have tried all those things then make your mind up, don't discount anything on hearsay, and certainly don't think of an axe in the same way you do a POD or any other Line 6 product.

[Dr Z]

Really, what the OP needs is this:

'69 Marshall SuperBass (or a later '73 one?)

And a 4x12 cab w/ (Rola) Celestion Greenbacks (2 with the 55Hz cone and 2 with 75Hz cones)

Perhaps, consider (horror of horrors) installing a PPIMV or a VVR for home usage.

I defy any Axe thingymajig to replicate the response of this.

/luddite

ETA: in repsonse to chris5150 (legendary amp btw!), you're right I think I mixed up the sounding like yourself with having very versatile gear. I must ask pardon from the Gods of guitar, really a guitarist is known by his chops/touch more than having an 'individual' tone I guess. I could play with the Axe Fx but I'll still sound like myself as the licks are the same. I find that having a tweed deluxe circuit coming through via an Alnico speaker in a pine cab gives me the response I love and enjoy.

My previous (limited) attempts to get this sort of sound without a valve in sight gave me a very 'sterile' experience really. Perhaps things have improved a lot now. But now I got my sound, I don't need to try an Axe Fx like device.

Edited by Dr Z on Thursday 23 May 14:42

[12v3pot]

Animal said:

12v3pot said:

Animal said:

If you've got an amp that has both a channel volume and a master volume you can turn the master up, which will work the power valves hard and then control the overall output volume via the channel-specific volume. Still a compromise, but it's worked for me.

It may work for you, but that technique doesn't work the power valves harder.

If you want to work power valves hard and have lower room volume, you need an attenuator or an amp with VVR/PowerScaling.

Probably all in my ears then!

It's not necessarily an imaginary difference (it's just not power valves working harder). Because, in an amp with several cascaded gain/level/volume controls you can get many different tones by dialling some up high and others low. In doing so, you can alter which valves in the signal path are being overdriven. I've got a Diezel-modified Marshall that has Gain - Volume - Lead Master - PPIMV Master. Lots of ways to get crunch out of that.

In general, amps with more than two gain/level/volume controls in the signal path are designed primarily for preamp/phase inverter distortion and the power valves themselves run relatively clean, with a little natural compression.

(I just meant to say that if a conventional amp's output to the speaker isn't high, then the power valves themselves aren't being driven hard, no matter where the other controls are set).

[chris5150]

Points taken Dr Z, you are very right. In some ways there is something so 'earthy' about a good valve amp...a great guitar & a lead into a 69 plexi I once had just felt so right, you sort of feel it more than hear it, but I think that has so much to do with history and your own perception than the real sound, but then the whole guitar thing is generally built around vintage is better, a lump of wood with a 1959 wound pickup into a 1969 glowing valve creating a sound..it is a wonderful thing...but lets face it, its a bit like enjoying antiques, there is a good modern alternative nowadays.
I really like the constant 'new gifts' from the axe though nowadays, ashamed to say I enjoy 'tinkering' loading up new patches, tweaking/trying stuff..its a bit like when you first get an iphone or whatever, you slowly get sucked in, and it becomes fun, and before long you wondered how you got along without all those things that make life more easier/more fun or whatever. One of the reasons I went back to a valve amp for a bit was because I found I was spending too much time 'tinkering' trying all those patches posted up and I just went 'wooahhh' I want to play my guitar when I have the time, not spend that precious time mucking about with a computer uploading new software/ new patches, altering stuff etc..but once you embrace it, it really is the gift that keeps giving!!

[Lotus 50]

...but getting back on thread the OP has a £1k budget so the vintage marshall and Fractal systems are both in effect irrelevant!

Moderately sized valve amp and a good multi-effect unit (Boss/Line 6) might be the best compromise?

[Art0ir]

Nowhere near your budget, but I use an AVT275 as my main amp for gigging and it is way more than adequate. The tones are sublime as well. For jamming I bought a barely used MG30FX for £40 - I thought it was a scam right until the guy selling plugged it in).

[Mastodon2]

chris5150 said:

I really don't get anyone anymore spending in excess of £1500 buying a valve amp

The AxeFX, in particular the Axe FX2 is very good, but let's not be ridiculous. Modelling is part of the future, but it is not "the" future, tube amps will never go away. I often have a wry smile at Fractal Audio's method of marketing it, giving a huge list of names of famous players, but not telling you that a lot of their endorsers still use tube amps and run the Axe FX solely as an effects unit - Steve Vai and John Petrucci are the most prominent names on the list doing just this.

People will never stop buying tube amps, just because you don't understand it doesn't mean the market is gone.

Some people will:

• never want to deal with the complexity of the menus in something like an Axe FX or a Kemper
• not need to play quietly, so will not need the "great tone at low volume" modelers provide
• Prefer the organic response of a tube amp compared to modelers, which are getting better but still aren't quite there in the eyes of many

You like your Axe Fx, that much is obvious, and they are great at some things, but they will never be all things to all men, no matter how much you shout from the pulpit about them.

[davepoth]

Looks like a lovely box. You still need a power amp and cabinet to use it though, which seems like a bit of overkill for playing in a pub.

I always think that having the ability to flit between dozens of tones means you'll never find "your" tone properly.

[smash]

If you like the idea of modeling but want simple, easy, familiar user interface see if you can try out a DV Mark Multiamp - starting to get some rave reviews. It's a full head concept with 250w per side power amp as well as perfect modelled line outs for recording.

The absolute king of the hill is still the (now sadly discontinued) VG99 but the menu architecture and sheer endless possibilities for control put a lot of people off - it's capable of incredible, incredible things....