RE: Lord Drayson: PH Meets
RE: Lord Drayson: PH Meets
Friday 24th May 2013

Lord Drayson: PH Meets

Politician, racing team owner and electric racing advocate asks PH what do you want from Formula E?



Lord Drayson wants to kick off a debate about electric racing. And he knows where he wants that to take place - on PistonHeads. "It's lively!" he says of PH. "The great thing is you've got people who really do know their stuff and they're passionate and opinionated and we would really love the opportunity to generate some discussion."

Lord Drayson reckons Britain can lead the, er, charge
Lord Drayson reckons Britain can lead the, er, charge
So, the floor is open. What do you want of the impending age of electric motor racing, spearheaded with an opening round for the FIA-approved Formula E championship right here in London in 2014? Indeed, do electric motors have a place in motor racing at all? And can the whine of battery powered racers really replace that of a screaming F1 engine revving to 18,000rpm?

Drayson thinks so, his political savvy - following a peerage in 2004 he served as Defence Minister under Tony Blair in 2005, expanded his work to include the Department for Business two years later and from 2008 was Minister for Science and Innovation - matched with a passion for science, technology. And a desire to see Britain at the front of the electric revolution. As a politician he is a convincingly impassioned champion for British engineering talent and as a car fan and racer sees motorsport as a way to get electric cars away from what he describes as the 'greenwash' painting them as eco focused purely city runabouts.

Can petrolheads really embrace electric racing cars though?

Judd V10 out, electric motors in on B12/69EV
Judd V10 out, electric motors in on B12/69EV
The electric Ferrari
The evening before meeting with us he'd been at a lecture at Oxford held by Ferrari F1 chief Stefano Domenicali. "I said to Stefano, just imagine what would the character of a Ferrari be if it weighed less than 1,000kg and it had 1,000hp electric drive that could drive on one charge from London to Paris?" he says with a grin. "He said 'it's not in the strategy' but we're doing this project with the Royal College of Art sponsoring a project asking what should be the design language of the electric car. You. Will. Be. Amazed. We've grown up with the emotion of the car being associated with the internal combustion engine. I don't know - we don't know yet - how will the thing that we love about cars translate to the electric car if you're given a clean sheet of paper. We're not talking about city cars. I'm talking about the Drayson E Racer, a car that is designed for absolute performance, no compromise and zero emissions. That's it, go to it."

Drayson's passion is clear enough, the tempo and pitch of the conversation rising as we go. Especially when he gets onto the electric B12/69EV that ran at Goodwood last year. In the first season the Spark-built Formula E cars - co-developed with McLaren and with Renault now on board - will use a common design. But after that teams will be able to use their own motors and control systems and Drayson Racing hopes to lead the field, using experience gained on the B12/69EV.

Drayson's first job was at Longbridge in 1978
Drayson's first job was at Longbridge in 1978
Sound of speed
"Nobody has heard what a Formula 1 car sounds like at 200mph with the engine switched off," he says. "I guarantee you it's a really cool sound and that's what electric racing is going to do - it's going to show you what a car is like at 200mph without the engine drowning everything out."

And what of the driving experience, having removed the previous Judd V10 and replaced it with electric motors?

"It's got 850hp, it weighs 1,000kg and the driving experience is completely transformed," says Drayson. "It's not just about taking out a Judd V10 and putting in an electric drive - it's changed the character of the car and there's something really cool about it because it's really stealthy. There's a total lack of vibration and obviously you don't have the sound of the Judd V10 firing up behind your head. But when you are in the car the feeling of the power delivery ... it's like being in an aircraft on the ground because that push in the back is so smooth it's like being transported by something that's not mechanical. And then you hear, like you do a little bit with the Audis at Le Mans, you hear the aero."

And now's the time to have your say about how all this translates to Formula E. "That's the great thing about Formula E, it's brand new and a clean sheet of paper but in a year's time it won't be," he says.

Formula E cars built with input from Renault and McLaren
Formula E cars built with input from Renault and McLaren
New age
"Contemporary social media, wireless and smartphone technologies will provide us with the means to offer a more interactive fan experience in Formula E," he's said previously at a press conference at the launch of the Drayson Racing team. "We think there's an opportunity for the fans to be closer to Formula E than any other series so we're taking their input very seriously."

The legacy of wireless charging points in the road circuits used by Formula E - "It's like a giant Scalextric with no wires!" - means cities hosting races could have areas where electric cars, buses and taxis can demonstrate how such vehicles can run without being slaves to heavy batteries. "We're working with some amazing wireless charging technology," says Drayson. "Just imagine if you don't have to plug the damned thing in! It just charges itself while it's moving, it doesn't have to carry 300kg of batteries because you don't have to carry all of the energy on board, it's topped up as it goes so now you've got a car with 1,000hp and it's weighing 600kg."

Street racing to bring Formula E to the masses
Street racing to bring Formula E to the masses
Which is an interesting way of turning Chris Harris's argument about the 918 Spyder on its head. Not, what would it be like without all the batteries and electrical gubbins destroying the weight gains of the clever carbon tech. But rather, what would it be like without that lump of V8 metal and a big tank of fuel? Clearly there are still significant infrastructure questions to be answered, not to mention safety ones. Drayson highlights the reluctance of marshals to approach Anthony Davidson's wrecked hybrid Toyota after last year's epic Le Mans shunt as one example of how electric cars can freak out a business ruled by internal combustion.

Can we really learn to love the hum of an electric motor as much as a screaming V8 though? Drayson reckons so. "Don't fight it, embrace it! Let's make cars which we can fall in love with and be passionate about but let's just make them with the new technology."

Over to you...


B12/69EV test

 

Formula E test run in Moscow

 

 

Author
Discussion

Galileo

Original Poster:

3,147 posts

244 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
Electric racing will be like going to a Ballet to find there is no music.

Or trying to appreciate the beauty of a Monet that's been reproduced in black and white.


RemarkLima

2,799 posts

238 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
If they sound like TIE fighters surely that's gotta be a "good thing"?

PistonHeads said:
Drayson highlights the reluctance of marshals to approach Anthony Davidson's wrecked hybrid Toyota after last year's epic Le Mans shunt as one example of how electric cars can freak out a business ruled by internal combustion.
However, running towards 200 litres of highly explosive petrol isn't a problem wink It's going to take a change in perspective, and I guess fireproof overalls could have some conductive elements (a la Farraday cage) to keep the eletrons away.

Mad Chrissy

8 posts

165 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
It will be very similar to watching Diesel powered Audi's lapping Le Mans (boring) thank god for the Aston Martins and Corvettes!! In my head I can imagine the electric cars sounding like the vehicles of the Jetsons cartoons smile)

FourWheelDrift

92,068 posts

310 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
RemarkLima said:
If they sound like TIE fighters surely that's gotta be a "good thing"?
Like this but louder - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNxuquRCI74

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

281 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
Well, I'll be looking forward to seeing how it comes out. Maybe that's because I'm not a Luddite. wink

DrMekon

2,493 posts

242 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
That formula-e video sounds like a dentists drill. Not good.

Hoofy

79,698 posts

308 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
Perhaps they'll go quick and handle better but they sound awful. Part of the reason I love motorsport is the sound.

http://youtu.be/D52uNQfqiwk

smartie93

99 posts

191 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
Sounds like he does an up shift at 1.10 on the second video, Do these things have gearboxes?

It's not zero emissions though, the electric energy isn't produced by fairies living at the bottom of your garden :/

I wish people would look at the manufacturing process for pollution not just how much comes out of the exhausts.

BEVs are not the future, Electric motors can stay, replace the drive train, a la Fisker. But we need a technology that works the way ICEs work now, A battery charging to full in 20 minutes is too long, and that's a long way off.

Instead of replacing the Energy converter, why not replace the energy source. ICEs can be made to run on any combustible liquid or gas, look for an alternative. Change our current infrastructure not build an entirely new one.

STOP WASTING MONEY ON BATTERIES AND DEVELOP A TRULY CARBON NEUTRAL CAR!

My opinion anyway haha smile

Edited by smartie93 on Friday 24th May 12:37

Crusoe

4,118 posts

257 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
I've seen him racing Aston Martins before so he isn't a stranger to petrol power, not sure a new formula is the way to go if you want it to be successful in the long term with electric power. Not going to attract enthusiasts to watch it in the same way petrol power racing would. If they invested in make a decent cheap electric go cart that can replace the wheezy petrol ones and let people enjoy the instant torque for sliding them around with a bit less noise and no fumes for indoor use then people might buy into it being fun for some applications.

Hoofy

79,698 posts

308 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
smartie93 said:
It's not zero emissions though, the electric energy isn't produced by fairies living at the bottom of your garden :/
WHAT? ALL LIES. I'll hear none of it. Even Boris Johnson said the electricity came from the plug socket.

Pablo16v

2,806 posts

223 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
Hoofy said:
Perhaps they'll go quick and handle better but they sound awful. Part of the reason I love motorsport is the sound.

http://youtu.be/hz7PJSWUveI
yes I can still remember my first F1 race……oh my god, the noise! cloud9

FerrousOxide

227 posts

171 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
I love a screaming race engine as much as the next petrolhead, but it's not the be-all and end-all for me. My favourite racing to watch live is still Formula Ford, and that is definitely NOT about the sound!! I watch it to see close racing between well matched cars with lots of natural (non-DRS) overtaking - the motive power source is a minor thing for me.

To me, downforce is a bigger killer of trackside thrills than the sound of deisel / electric / fart / whatever powered engines, but I appreciate that this is a minority view, and somewhat off topic.

German

203 posts

173 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
I think its a great Idea. Develop new tech, and advance existing stuff so all the people who view their cars as white goods anyway can have a 'leccy car. Meanwhile we can ignore them, and get busy spanking big loud petrol engines about the place. Mine is a 250 Lusso please smile

Gavlar83

29 posts

169 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
surely as everyone is saying all road cars will be electric or hydrogen powered then well want to see some dirty polluting race cars flying round a track making lots of noise as well as we'll be so used to having slow and silent everyday cars at home?! not for me i'm afraid.

ukaskew

10,642 posts

247 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
I'm of the opinion that we may as well embrace it, and make it the best it can possibly be. Like it or not noise restrictions are only heading in one direction, so everything will have to get quieter anyway,I would rather there is something exciting on the horizon than nothing at all.

All those of the 'don't like it, don't care for anything but a rumbling V8 or screaming V12' persuasion are rather missing the point, things will have to change sooner rather than later. Even if they have to fudge it a bit it would be really interesting to see what sort of sounds work from an aural enjoyment perspective, but also have minimal environmental impact.

Throwing one out there, different sounds for different cars. The kids always pick cars to follow, 'I'm supporting the one that sounds like a Tie Fighter' etc etc would be good fun.

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

281 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
I can watch the Tour De France, despite it not having petrol engines, and little noise except for gear shifting, brakes.
I can watch formula E despite it not having petrol engines.

I can watch a race because the most important part of a race is exactly that... The race. There was an incredibly dull period of Formula one in the 2000's. I stopped watching. Engine noise did not matter, the racing did.

V8 FOU

3,023 posts

173 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
TheHeretic said:
I can watch the Tour De France, despite it not having petrol engines, and little noise except for gear shifting, brakes.
I can watch formula E despite it not having petrol engines.

I can watch a race because the most important part of a race is exactly that... The race. There was an incredibly dull period of Formula one in the 2000's. I stopped watching. Engine noise did not matter, the racing did.
Very well put.
Formula E will run alongside other ice events etc, not replace it for a long time, so why not embrace it?
BTCC produces probably the best track action, but the sounds aren't all that exciting.
Let's not pre judge this until we see it. Oh, I forgot, this is PH.

moribund

4,360 posts

240 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
I enjoyed watched Drayson race, and personally I think electric cars have a place. A Tesla would be on my lottery list.

But isn't his electric prototype the car that killed Lola? Not sure I can forgive him for that...

chevronb37

6,472 posts

212 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
I like Drayson - he's a politician who's grounded in the real world. He really is a genuine enthusiast too - witness his skilled pilotting of his DB4GT and Lotus 24 for that.

I find there kinds of debates over motor racing quite amusing on PH. They're invariably argued out by folk who go to one or two events a year, yet hold disproportionately strong opinions.

I can only write as I find but I am extremely excited about the prospect of Formula E. Anyone who's witnessed street racing will understand the sheer thrill of racing vehicles at close quarters. Even as a spectator you can really see the difference in technique and skill of the drivers. It's so visceral.

A large part of this relates to the noise. I'm deeply intrigued though. I've only seen electric car demos but the way they move is remarkable. Drayson's Lola moves with total stealth and apparently no inertia. It's amazing. For the record, though, I love the big V12 diesel LMP1 cars as well.

The simple, unavoidable, truth is that one day the oil will run out. This will, of course, affect manufacturing of vehicles as well as running. But this is a start. The next steps will involve materials and manufacturing from genuinely renewable materials. Witness Lotus's hemp car for ideas.

Through my writing for one of the racing technology magazines, we've discussed at some length the ways to engage 'Generation Y'. This generation of youngesters brought up on PlayStations and Gran Turismo for whom tuning carburettor jets is of no interest. By introducing manic fast cars to the centre of cities, it offers promise. I hope Rallycross, Pike's Peak and Time Attack do something similar.

Formula E has my unequivocal support.

Watchman

6,391 posts

271 months

Friday 24th May 2013
quotequote all
When they sort out the distance-issues associated with high power electronic-car racing, I think this will become more spectacular than cars with IC engines. Electric cars have the capacity for massive power.