cheaper performance upgrade alternative to BR??

[mikey k]

Jockman said:

gibbon said:

I look forward to seeing the before and after graphs and the full costings. It will be great to be able to compare true comparisons of the products offered.

+1

I look forward to being unable to understand 2 sets of graphs as opposed to just 1. Lets me use Little Phillie's crayons, though.

Dynos is short for dinosaurs, isn't it ??

It's just that I went to the Balti Curryhouse last night and I awoke this morning nursing a megasoreaus

you can tell you had a good holiday and are now back on form!

[mikey k]

gibbon said:

I will be more interested in the shape of the graphs to be honest and where the cars make the power / toque, thats where the interesting tuning really comes from. For what its worth (not a great deal!), i think you would probably be able to get past 420hp, if you really wanted to even with the standard intake restriction but it would take a lot of airbox and plenum work, and to what real world gain? Outright numbers are often misleading, it is always a trade off as to where and how the power is delivered.

I'll be looking for difference in area under the curve for the torque
The 4.3 will struggle to get much more as the whole intake train become the limiting factor, it simply can't flow enough air at the top end. This is why Aston tested the Vantage S with twin intakes (but then let the bean counters cut it from the spec )
As you say outright (head line) numbers are for bragging rights, its the mid range where it counts for overtakes and rolling acceleration.

[Jockman]

mikey k said:

you can tell you had a good holiday and are now back on form!

I'm shattered tbh Mikey - 22 hours travelling door to door was ok when I was younger

Thank Dieu I've got you to explain all this technical gobbledygook

[PiloteAM]

Back on topic

I had just my cats done at BR this week, doesn't add a lot of HP (around 20ish), but makes a huge difference to lowend torque and throttle response.

Quite a bit louder, I think I'll be using the quiet switch a lot more! Mike moved the valve opening point up the rev range too, useful around town, but when it cuts in now it's quite surprising!

Much cheaper than having the manifolds done as well, so if you don't want to go all in I'd recommend it.

I'm conserving cash at the moment, because I'm expecting some work-related changes, which is why I'm being a cheapskate

[yeti]

PiloteAM said:

Back on topic
I had just my cats done at BR this week, doesn't add a lot of HP (around 20ish), but makes a huge difference to lowend torque and throttle response.

20bhp is a pretty good jump (so high because of yours being an N400?), think it's around 18bhp on a V12. What people have to remember it's not just the 40bhp top end figures of cats and manifolds, it's the hugely enhanced driveabilty thoughout the rev range in any gear, at any speed. It feel like a totally different car

[KarlFranz]

PiloteAM said:

Back on topic

I had just my cats done at BR this week, doesn't add a lot of HP (around 20ish), but makes a huge difference to lowend torque and throttle response.

Quite a bit louder, I think I'll be using the quiet switch a lot more! Mike moved the valve opening point up the rev range too, useful around town, but when it cuts in now it's quite surprising!

Much cheaper than having the manifolds done as well, so if you don't want to go all in I'd recommend it.

I'm conserving cash at the moment, because I'm expecting some work-related changes, which is why I'm being a cheapskate

How would you compare the volume of the car with your new cats in "quiet mode" vs. the standard exhaust?

[stevewushu]

i'm too much of a wimp to drive my 4.3 to it's standard potential anyway...

[scotpak]

Hi Guys

As a reference, I found this old thread by Stuart Dickinson when he worked at RSC.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/aston-martin/28...


If you look at page 1 and page 4 of the thread you can see three dyno charts.

chart 1) 4.3 stock car producing 311 bhps (at the rear wheels obviously)

chart 2) 4.3 stock+CATS/ECU-REMAP/filters/sports exhaust producing 346 bhp

chart 3) as above+ headers producing 364 bhp

So what does this mean?

1) 311 to 364 equals a 17% increase thus the BHP at the flywheel is 380*1.17 which equals 445 bhp
or 2) you assume a 20% loss transfer between flywheel and rear wheels thus 364*1.2 equals 437 bhp.

Seems like pretty good results???

Please let me know if you think this analysis is incorrect or not appropriate as I want to make sure I interpret my own car's results appropriately next week!!

[Neil1300R]

scotpak said:

Stuff re performance

Would be useful to have rolling road results from an independent company - takes out another variable and no accusations of cheating.

If this upgrade deliver 90% of the BR upgrade for 70% of the cost I can see lots of people being interested. Not being derogatory to either company, its good to have competition and different price options. My figures are made up but hopefully everyone gets the drift.

[scotpak]

yes, the rolling road will be a third party as they don't have them at their locations.

Of course, there has to be an element of trust, otherwise you could just come up with an assumption that there all fake!

[PiloteAM]

KarlFranz said:

How would you compare the volume of the car with your new cats in "quiet mode" vs. the standard exhaust?

In quiet more is pretty much the same as it was in quiet mode before, except the values now open at higher revs. I had th e switch fitted already, to aid late night parking without a lynch mob.

[PiloteAM]

Lewis is spot on, the extra HP is fine, but it's the extra drivability that makes the difference... Cue Cockers to tell us all to MTFU, but in reality my car gets driven at about 1.5 tenths for most of its life!

[KarlFranz]

scotpak said:

Dont worry karl. There are cheaper alternatives out there.

In the US as evidenced by speedonline seems like many have ordered sports exhaust, ecu remapsoftware, sports exhaust system and used a local specialist to fit the parts.

No disrespect to BR but its not rocket science, which hopefully my project next week should be able to prove, fingers crossed !

Perhaps. But what I like about BR is that it is a one-stop shop for design, engineering and installation of upgrades from highly knowledgable Aston experts that provide a turnkey solution. In my line of work we often choose a single vendor solution because they have to take full ownership. There have been too many occasions when things don't work properly and when you have one guy designing and another one installing, it becomes too easy to have each party point to the other and say the problem lies with them.

Also, I don't know if there's anyone in my area that I would trust other than the tech at my dealer to work on my car.

[scotpak]

Anyone else doubting that BHP gains are limited see the following link:

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=113&i=162...

As you can see prodrive (owner of aston martin racing) got the 4.3 vantage to 425 bhp using a combo
Of ecu remap, new exhaust and CATS. Dont think they used new manifolds/ headers.

Also I think prodrive are an authoritative and trustworthy source when it comes to their bhp figures.

[mikey k]

scotpak said:

Anyone else doubting that BHP gains are limited see the following link:

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=113&i=162...

As you can see prodrive (owner of aston martin racing) got the 4.3 vantage to 425 bhp using a combo
Of ecu remap, new exhaust and CATS. Dont think they used new manifolds/ headers.

Also I think prodrive are an authoritative and trustworthy source when it comes to their bhp figures.

Scot that is a 6 year old article on a package that PD no longer offer.
Also like the AM N400 upgrade it will only deliver that increase on 100RON fuel
I think some one else suggested get yours done with before and after dynos on the same dyno then we can talk about your real numbers

[sukh_m]

PiloteAM said:

Back on topic

I had just my cats done at BR this week, doesn't add a lot of HP (around 20ish), but makes a huge difference to lowend torque and throttle response.

What's the cost of this? You got me thinking Mr Cheapskate ......

[scotpak]

mikey k said:

Scot that is a 6 year old article on a package that PD no longer offer.
Also like the AM N400 upgrade it will only deliver that increase on 100RON fuel
I think some one else suggested get yours done with before and after dynos on the same dyno then we can talk about your real numbers

Good point on the fuel. I will make sure my car is running on the normal 98RON when it is tested next week.
Hopefully that will prevent people coming back and questioning gains.

[Araantonak]

Also, BR is working on a "Cheapskate"- Version of their 4 in 1 Manifolds that should give good gains for less cost then their current/pinnacle version.

I had the privilege to see the new "cost saver manifold" yesterday at BR and am sure Mike will post figures and prices about it soon.

I believe for the figures he needs a car for the new manifolds to go on... maybe something for you Sukh_m ? Why don't you give him a call about it

[scotpak]

Or they could offer their best stuff for less?? If this was the case, I wouldnt have started this thread and
Would already be driving around in a BR modded car.

[mikey k]

scotpak said:

Or they could offer their best stuff for less?? If this was the case, I wouldnt have started this thread and
Would already be driving around in a BR modded car.

That won't happen the cost of manufacturing that product to that spec precludes it (this is not guess work either )