Seven style kit car - 'best' option?
Discussion
Sutton said:
Would I fit in a Westfield? I tried a Caterham at a motorshow and didn't fit years ago. I'm 6'4"
You should fit unless your of ample girth, In which case (and my preference anyway) would be the wide body version at least that way your not going to be feeling your passenger up every time you change gear. Plenty of other options.
I spent 15-18months looking for the perfect '7' for me and despite looking at the usual suspects - a good many of them, Cater/Wfield, and the clones. I then bought a Fisher Fury. 3years later I'm bloody glad I did; there are no shortage of 'lightweights' out there, but few with well-resolved basic geometry, and fewer still well-set-up within what is capable.
Yes, read that again: if the basic chassis/suspension design doesn't support it, the end result will not ever be any fun, but may cost a lot to assure you of this fact.
So - go try many and buy the one that really moves you. I found a finely prepped /developed example used for sprints only being sold with SVA to fund the owner's next project.
427kG/165hp, BEC, utter joy to steer and <510Kg with me in it and half a tank of fuel - hell yeah.
I spent 15-18months looking for the perfect '7' for me and despite looking at the usual suspects - a good many of them, Cater/Wfield, and the clones. I then bought a Fisher Fury. 3years later I'm bloody glad I did; there are no shortage of 'lightweights' out there, but few with well-resolved basic geometry, and fewer still well-set-up within what is capable.
Yes, read that again: if the basic chassis/suspension design doesn't support it, the end result will not ever be any fun, but may cost a lot to assure you of this fact.
So - go try many and buy the one that really moves you. I found a finely prepped /developed example used for sprints only being sold with SVA to fund the owner's next project.
427kG/165hp, BEC, utter joy to steer and <510Kg with me in it and half a tank of fuel - hell yeah.
Edited by Huff on Saturday 15th June 00:17
Huff said:
Plenty of other options.
I spent 15-18months looking for the perfect '7' for me and despite looking at the usual suspects - a good many of them, Cater/Wfield, and the clones. I then bought a Fisher Fury. 3years later I'm bloody glad I did; there are no shortage of 'lightweights' out there, but few with well-resolved basic geometry, and fewer still well-set-up within what is capable.
Yes, read that again: if the basic chassis/suspension design doesn't support it, the end result will not ever be any fun, but may cost a lot to assure you of this fact.
So - go try many and buy the one that really moves you. I found a finely prepped /developed example used for sprints only being sold with SVA to fund the owner's next project.
427kG/165hp, BEC, utter joy to steer and <510Kg with me in it and half a tank of fuel - hell yeah.
My BEC (MAC#1) would never handle properly, despite quite a bit of tweaking. Ultimately, as you say there were fundamental issues - front dampers at too oblique angle, rears could not get enough droop and incorrectly valved, not enough caster adjustment up front... the list went on, but gave me the impression the smaller companies just haven't the R&D funds to sort this stuff out...?I spent 15-18months looking for the perfect '7' for me and despite looking at the usual suspects - a good many of them, Cater/Wfield, and the clones. I then bought a Fisher Fury. 3years later I'm bloody glad I did; there are no shortage of 'lightweights' out there, but few with well-resolved basic geometry, and fewer still well-set-up within what is capable.
Yes, read that again: if the basic chassis/suspension design doesn't support it, the end result will not ever be any fun, but may cost a lot to assure you of this fact.
So - go try many and buy the one that really moves you. I found a finely prepped /developed example used for sprints only being sold with SVA to fund the owner's next project.
427kG/165hp, BEC, utter joy to steer and <510Kg with me in it and half a tank of fuel - hell yeah.
Edited by Huff on Saturday 15th June 00:17
And, I just didn't like the bike engine if truth be told.I think I would prefer something with a bit more low grunt
The lack of weight was beautiful. (Almost) Mass free acc/deceleration
I did a Midlands - Welsh coast run once and used the brakes about three times (except to stop at junctions etc) I picked up an XE (rep top) westie for 6800 inc. a brian jones trailer. The XE had Jenvey throttle linkage w/SBD TBs, Quaife Straight cut box, QED dry sump, SBD rod bolts & cams, pocketed pistons etc. etc. Th tradeoff was that the body work was a bit tired, but who cares? Good deals can be found. 210 brake ~ish, 169lbft ~ish.
bonesX said:
Huff said:
Plenty of other options.
I spent 15-18months looking for the perfect '7' for me and despite looking at the usual suspects - a good many of them, Cater/Wfield, and the clones. I then bought a Fisher Fury. 3years later I'm bloody glad I did; there are no shortage of 'lightweights' out there, but few with well-resolved basic geometry, and fewer still well-set-up within what is capable.
Yes, read that again: if the basic chassis/suspension design doesn't support it, the end result will not ever be any fun, but may cost a lot to assure you of this fact.
So - go try many and buy the one that really moves you. I found a finely prepped /developed example used for sprints only being sold with SVA to fund the owner's next project.
427kG/165hp, BEC, utter joy to steer and <510Kg with me in it and half a tank of fuel - hell yeah.
My BEC (MAC#1) would never handle properly, despite quite a bit of tweaking. Ultimately, as you say there were fundamental issues - front dampers at too oblique angle, rears could not get enough droop and incorrectly valved, not enough caster adjustment up front... the list went on, but gave me the impression the smaller companies just haven't the R&D funds to sort this stuff out...?I spent 15-18months looking for the perfect '7' for me and despite looking at the usual suspects - a good many of them, Cater/Wfield, and the clones. I then bought a Fisher Fury. 3years later I'm bloody glad I did; there are no shortage of 'lightweights' out there, but few with well-resolved basic geometry, and fewer still well-set-up within what is capable.
Yes, read that again: if the basic chassis/suspension design doesn't support it, the end result will not ever be any fun, but may cost a lot to assure you of this fact.
So - go try many and buy the one that really moves you. I found a finely prepped /developed example used for sprints only being sold with SVA to fund the owner's next project.
427kG/165hp, BEC, utter joy to steer and <510Kg with me in it and half a tank of fuel - hell yeah.
Edited by Huff on Saturday 15th June 00:17
And, I just didn't like the bike engine if truth be told.I think I would prefer something with a bit more low grunt
The lack of weight was beautiful. (Almost) Mass free acc/deceleration
I did a Midlands - Welsh coast run once and used the brakes about three times (except to stop at junctions etc) My clients into building and racing kit cars have argued with me for years that a four pot turbocharged powerhouse would be the best overall compromise and give outstanding results and performance combined with real road ability. For that reason I am currently completing an RS Turbo based kit car using the Quantum kit as the basis for the car. It will be complete and IVA'd in July (subject to passing first time !!??!!). (Like I need another Kit Car. Ho Hum!).
I will set up a record of the build IVA etc on PH on and results in due course. I hope it works it has a limited slip diff etc so it should handle reasonably so long as we have the geometry done correctly and all adjustable suspension so some tweaking should be readily accomplished. We will see!
Edited by Steffan on Saturday 15th June 14:18
bonesX said:
Most of them are ~550Kg's? 200BHP should be fine then
My S1 was more around 700KG and with 165bhp was just not fast enough (on the road. Track was OK)
Is fully independent rear better?
My old SLR started life with 190HP. Tweaking the cam timing transformed the driveability no end, gave it a lovely linear response. It didn't feel as fast but by God it was, it just pulled instead of having a big hole in the midrange. Also part throttle and progression was night and day. So. I did what pretty much every new owner does and spent a fair amount of time and effort bringing it up to 230-240HP. This was a protracted and at times very frustrating project. I ended up with something that was too quick for the road. With the benefit of hindsight I would say a 160HP car is about perfect as you can really explore them rather than the power dominating the experience. I would go for a K Series as despite their well documented issues they are easy to fix and when tuned to 160HP or so very reliable. I know a fair few guys who race them and most agree that the feel of the K series car is better, especially the turn in. Against the duratecs you will have no chance torque or power but at your budget there should be something out there that you can buy and slowly make your own.My S1 was more around 700KG and with 165bhp was just not fast enough (on the road. Track was OK)
Is fully independent rear better?
Top mods I would say are the Scouse airbox, Raceco silencer, decent pair of dampers and a flat floor session. Dial the cams in and you'll be good to go. Re: the noise on your old S1, lots of K's I have seen have really annoying injectors. In the Caterham you don't really notice them
I wanted a quick Westy (185bhp Zetec, Cosworth MT75 gearbox and Cosworth ltd slip diff) that was comfortable on the road but one that would be quick on track.
So for comfort I've got:
Heater, Weather Gear, carpets, padded seats, windscreen (Can't see the point of an aeroscreen unless the car is being used PURELY on track)
For track I've got:
Toyo R888 tyres, Full harness, RAC rollcage, AVO suspension,
I also wanted it to be clean and look good, after some searching and quite a lot of work I now have the car that suits my needs perfectly.
The car won't depreciated now and I plan to keep for a while.
So for comfort I've got:
Heater, Weather Gear, carpets, padded seats, windscreen (Can't see the point of an aeroscreen unless the car is being used PURELY on track)
For track I've got:
Toyo R888 tyres, Full harness, RAC rollcage, AVO suspension,
I also wanted it to be clean and look good, after some searching and quite a lot of work I now have the car that suits my needs perfectly.
The car won't depreciated now and I plan to keep for a while.
May be asking the same question as OP soon. Keeping this thread to save answering again!
Old man is thinking about getting something like a Westfield/seven style kit car.
He wants some luxury eg screen and wet weather kit but all else he is flexible on.
Looking forward to helping him choose one
Old man is thinking about getting something like a Westfield/seven style kit car.
He wants some luxury eg screen and wet weather kit but all else he is flexible on.
Looking forward to helping him choose one
Westfield gets my vote,as they seem better value for money. My first one was a lancia 1600 turbo engined model,narrow body and independent rear suspension.Immense fun and handling to die for. Second was a 1800 zetec wide body,which always seemed a bit gutless even though 150 bhp. My ideal spec would be vauxhall red top with around 200 bhp,narrow body and irs. Perfect 
RobM77 said:
Personally I'd recommend a Caterham, awesome little things and in this instance, the original is best.
This, then you can spend as much time as you want debating the next best (and I've built a Westfield).As for power, here's my story. I sold my Cayman to one of Caterham's development team, who turned up with one of his mates (and colleague) to buy the car. I mentioned that my ~160bhp Caterham was about perfect for the road. They looked at each other, then nodded in agreement; they only built the more powerful ones to meet the demands of misguided customers.
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