Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 2]
Discussion
I do find the many posts and views from all the contributors on PH to this subject seriously interesting and challenging. The exceptional posting by Driller a few days ago was a model of outstanding and brilliant humour and masterly editing. I do admire the style. Equally the many contributions of others including most latterly that of Irish and Mermaid to mention but two, from a lengthy list, certainly make the mix of opinions on this subject seriously challenging and provide a better and more comprehensive informed display of ideas and proposals than that of any other medium that I can easily address in the UK. I honestly believe that the real point in all of this has become not the focus on the economic details that accompany the various theories as to how to progress the matter itself, but rather the general agreement amongst the observers that the continuance of the Euro and the EU has only been achieved over the least two years by outright dishonesty within the EU itself.
That is a fact which the majority of observers and reporter PH are studiously avoiding in their deliberations. Yet it is as frequently suggested here on PH. This EU edifice is being kept alive and running but in reality the underlying circumstances of the unemployed and the desperate poor and sick are ugly scars across the face of Europe and growing steadily as they are fed weekly by the EU handouts. The edifice may still be in place but the tarnishing and smears have brought the whole reputation and perception of the EU as a worthwhile and sustainable political entity into very serious doubt.
Then there is the monstrous dishonestly underlining outright and deliberate, misappropriation of funds within the EU by the EU leaders within the Sovereign states of Europe and the EU as the Cyprus solution has been applied to cull the deposit sums held by Cyprus banks in favour of the EU. As a result a haircut has been forcibly applied to thousands of unrepresented Cypriot bank deposit holders without warning consultation discussion or agreement. Simple deliberate theft by the Cypriot government and in turn the EU.
I think this topic is more important now than at any time in the last few months. The EU may be keeping the mess going but what on earth is this mess steadily unraveling onto? Where must this continued dishonesty and misrepresentation in international finance lead the players and their supporting and undefended electorate and population? Can the EU introduce taxation without representation and the seizure personal assets within an EU state in order to ensure a payment by the depositors of that state directly to the EU? From what we have seen thus far it appears that they can with a very small state such as Cyprus.
But longer term as more and more and more opprobrium piles upon the likes of the EU and Mr Draghi and his cohorts as the steadily worsening economic and fiscal position of the failing Sovereign states reaches the point where the effort of maintaining such huge smokescreen of economic wellbeing that the effort just becomes too great this will defeat even the die hard EU leaders.
That is a fact which the majority of observers and reporter PH are studiously avoiding in their deliberations. Yet it is as frequently suggested here on PH. This EU edifice is being kept alive and running but in reality the underlying circumstances of the unemployed and the desperate poor and sick are ugly scars across the face of Europe and growing steadily as they are fed weekly by the EU handouts. The edifice may still be in place but the tarnishing and smears have brought the whole reputation and perception of the EU as a worthwhile and sustainable political entity into very serious doubt.
Then there is the monstrous dishonestly underlining outright and deliberate, misappropriation of funds within the EU by the EU leaders within the Sovereign states of Europe and the EU as the Cyprus solution has been applied to cull the deposit sums held by Cyprus banks in favour of the EU. As a result a haircut has been forcibly applied to thousands of unrepresented Cypriot bank deposit holders without warning consultation discussion or agreement. Simple deliberate theft by the Cypriot government and in turn the EU.
I think this topic is more important now than at any time in the last few months. The EU may be keeping the mess going but what on earth is this mess steadily unraveling onto? Where must this continued dishonesty and misrepresentation in international finance lead the players and their supporting and undefended electorate and population? Can the EU introduce taxation without representation and the seizure personal assets within an EU state in order to ensure a payment by the depositors of that state directly to the EU? From what we have seen thus far it appears that they can with a very small state such as Cyprus.
But longer term as more and more and more opprobrium piles upon the likes of the EU and Mr Draghi and his cohorts as the steadily worsening economic and fiscal position of the failing Sovereign states reaches the point where the effort of maintaining such huge smokescreen of economic wellbeing that the effort just becomes too great this will defeat even the die hard EU leaders.
fbrs said:
Steffan said:
Can the EU introduce taxation without representation...
I'd suggest the FTT is nothing more than a first stab at such. It won't be the last.Ozzie Osmond said:
Blib said:
What, in your opinion, will drive this recovery?
Same as every other recovery - a return of confidence.It's only natural, I suppose, that Ozzie gets carried away on a wave of EUphoria by the sage pronouncements of President Hollande that le crise c'est fini. However, before Ozzie's long expected and predicted recovery occurs, traditional economics dictates the slump needs to first abate.
Sadly the economic figures just keep getting worse and worse, and reality keeps coming back to destroy fantasy. Hardly a week goes by without me pointing out further inconvenient truths about the depth of the depression being suffered by the south. For instance, we learn thios week that Greek females aged between 18-25 now suffer unemployment at a rate of 66.3%.
And finally Ozzie, how will current falling prices and disinflation in the southern Eurozone allow any growth to occur? Perhaps you could have a word with Francois Hollande and let us know?
There are now people being given airtime in the media to opint out the obvious flaws before us, both in the UK and the EU; that government/public spending is not sustainable. Before any recovery is possible, the state - in the broadest sense - needs to be cut down to size. In the UK this will be very difficult, in the EU it will be even more difficult.
Steffan said:
... but rather the general agreement amongst the observers that the continuance of the Euro and the EU has only been achieved over the least two years by outright dishonesty within the EU itself.
But this is the modus operandi of politics - reality can go hang, the elite have the high ground and well funded PR dept's hosing their message onto the populace with gay abandon.See parallel with climate change arguments between state funded bodies and independent observers with memories longer than 24 months.
Even if the euro were to be withdrawn it would be presented as a masterstroke of genius from some EU financial authority, followed by rapid covering of arses and mega bonuses all round.
Truth and reality and subservient (or irrelevant) to the message.
The Don of Croy said:
Steffan said:
... but rather the general agreement amongst the observers that the continuance of the Euro and the EU has only been achieved over the least two years by outright dishonesty within the EU itself.
But this is the modus operandi of politics - reality can go hang, the elite have the high ground and well funded PR dept's hosing their message onto the populace with gay abandon.See parallel with climate change arguments between state funded bodies and independent observers with memories longer than 24 months.
Even if the euro were to be withdrawn it would be presented as a masterstroke of genius from some EU financial authority, followed by rapid covering of arses and mega bonuses all round.
Truth and reality and subservient (or irrelevant) to the message.
There are parallels with the whole multicultural lash-up, the fallout from which is finally beginning to be more clearly defined in the media.
Chaps you are getting a little tinfoiley here.
Politicians do what politicians have done throughout the ages, power begats power. Always has and always will. There is no grand conspiracy theory here, its just what happens. Recognise that and you mitigate your exposure to it and at the end of the day thats all that matters.
Politicians do what politicians have done throughout the ages, power begats power. Always has and always will. There is no grand conspiracy theory here, its just what happens. Recognise that and you mitigate your exposure to it and at the end of the day thats all that matters.
WE'LL ALL BE SPEAKING GERMAN, JOE!
German should be an official language of the EU, says Merkel's party....along with English and French
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/make-g...
German should be an official language of the EU, says Merkel's party....along with English and French
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/make-g...
The Don of Croy said:
But this is the modus operandi of politics - reality can go hang, the elite have the high ground and well funded PR dept's hosing their message onto the populace with gay abandon.
See parallel with climate change arguments between state funded bodies and independent observers with memories longer than 24 months.
Even if the euro were to be withdrawn it would be presented as a masterstroke of genius from some EU financial authority, followed by rapid covering of arses and mega bonuses all round.
Truth and reality and subservient (or irrelevant) to the message.
Absolutely, very well expressed post.See parallel with climate change arguments between state funded bodies and independent observers with memories longer than 24 months.
Even if the euro were to be withdrawn it would be presented as a masterstroke of genius from some EU financial authority, followed by rapid covering of arses and mega bonuses all round.
Truth and reality and subservient (or irrelevant) to the message.
Things are not going well in Bulgaria https://medium.com/better-humans/d289c6e1392
DJRC said:
Politicians do what politicians have done throughout the ages, power begats power. Always has and always will. There is no grand conspiracy theory here, its just what happens. Recognise that and you mitigate your exposure to it and at the end of the day thats all that matters.
Agreed, fudge will follow more fudge till the heat gets too high and you have massive civil unrest.DJRC said:
Chaps you are getting a little tinfoiley here.
Sorry if it came over that way - I'm not advocating NWO in the shadows, just seeing what the EU does and the arrogance it displays. Hence my use of the term 'parallel' with how the MMGW argument is played out in the UK.There is no obvious link - just the way very large, well funded, bureaucracies throw their weight around. It's in their nature.
Of course, it is just possible they're doing the right thing...keeping up appearances being number one priority in bad times when the entire monetary edifice is so reliant upon sentiment.
The Don of Croy said:
DJRC said:
Chaps you are getting a little tinfoiley here.
Sorry if it came over that way - I'm not advocating NWO in the shadows, just seeing what the EU does and the arrogance it displays. Hence my use of the term 'parallel' with how the MMGW argument is played out in the UK.There is no obvious link - just the way very large, well funded, bureaucracies throw their weight around. It's in their nature.
Of course, it is just possible they're doing the right thing...keeping up appearances being number one priority in bad times when the entire monetary edifice is so reliant upon sentiment.
k all. The driving force is standard old school money.The EU displays no more or less arrogance than any other govt or official body. C'est la vie. But again its this false idea that "the EU" exists in the shape of some all encompassing monster. There is no "the EU" right now as far as Europe's finances are concerned, there is is just Germany/Merkel and the IMF. Hollande has made himself irrelevent, even France considers him irrelevent at the moment. Barroso and the other muppet never have been relevent.
The only thing that matters in all Authority is power and money and power in ALL organisations stems from money and right now The Money is Germany and only Germany, ergo the only power and the only voice that matters is Angie.
It staggers me ppl are giving a f
k about the unemployment prospects of the youth or whatever in Spain, Greece, Portugal etc or the weakness of Italy! It should be a Godsend! The bds are weak, put your foot on the necks and keep them there. Official British policy right now should be trying to rape those countries for as much as possible and trying to force them into firesales to cherrypick their best assets. With any luck the situation could be manipulated to break France to rape them. Brutal? Yes, but newsflash...wtf do you think the Arab and Chinese Soverign Wealth Funds have been doing?DJRC said:
It staggers me ppl are giving a fk about the unemployment prospects of the youth or whatever in Spain, Greece, Portugal etc or the weakness of Italy! It should be a Godsend! The bds are weak, put your foot on the necks and keep them there. Official British policy right now should be trying to rape those countries for as much as possible and trying to force them into firesales to cherrypick their best assets. With any luck the situation could be manipulated to break France to rape them. Brutal? Yes, but newsflash...wtf do you think the Arab and Chinese Soverign Wealth Funds have been doing?
Unless I just miss the articles about British companies in Europe, it seems that they are much better at coming here and buying our assets. Utilities especially, seem to be somewhat dominated by foreign companies.k about the unemployment prospects of the youth or whatever in Spain, Greece, Portugal etc or the weakness of Italy! It should be a Godsend! The bds are weak, put your foot on the necks and keep them there. Official British policy right now should be trying to rape those countries for as much as possible and trying to force them into firesales to cherrypick their best assets. With any luck the situation could be manipulated to break France to rape them. Brutal? Yes, but newsflash...wtf do you think the Arab and Chinese Soverign Wealth Funds have been doing?DJRC said:
Indeed Andrew. Which rather begs the questions of:
A) Htf did we manage to allow European companies to do that?
B) Wtf are we not now targetting utilities in said European companies?
C) Why are we not targettign European banks?
A) We are holding for the best timeA) Htf did we manage to allow European companies to do that?
B) Wtf are we not now targetting utilities in said European companies?
C) Why are we not targettign European banks?
B) Hands are tied due to something we're not considering
C) Our politicians really are as poor as we think they are
I'm not even sure if it's out politicians that should be doing the plundering? Maybe our large plcs just can't get access to the funding they need to go shopping.
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