15 year old girl elopes with her teacher
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
I think that the blame lies plainly with the man.
That is certainly where our society places the blame and there's probably no realistic alternative.However, I wouldn't buy any arguments along the lines "teenagers don't know what they are doing". I say this having known young teenagers whose judgement seems substantially better than that of many adults.
Breadvan72 said:
Some of the commentary in this thread seems to me to come close to blaming the girl for what happened, but I think that the blame lies plainly with the man.
I am most certainly not blaming her, nor am I defending him (I think you understand this, but perhaps others do not). I do, and was thinking of comments by others, including some near the beginning of this thread along the lines of oh well she's plainly some little slapper anyway.
The teacher here is in his thirties, and therefore young enough to be that modern phenomenon a kidult, with all the self indulgent idiocy that this entails, but that's still not an excuse.
The teacher here is in his thirties, and therefore young enough to be that modern phenomenon a kidult, with all the self indulgent idiocy that this entails, but that's still not an excuse.
Breadvan72 said:
The teacher here is in his thirties, and therefore young enough to be that modern phenomenon a kidult, with all the self indulgent idiocy that this entails, but that's still not an excuse.
That phenomenon is quite interesting and I think relevant. At 40 I have a lot more in common with my 8yo son than my father had with me. My grandfathers relationship with my father was again very different. There is a lot less difference mentally these days between generations I think.Surely this chap would have been told of the consequences of "eloping with a student" during his training? They do have CREB checks after all. Per the newspapers, the girl appears to be saying "she made all the decisions" - but the teacher is the supposedly professionally trained adult, and he really should have gone to the Head of Year or Principal for advice and parents should have been called in to discuss - in ideal world of "hindsight, if only and what if..."
However, he is still on trial and entitled to have his say - plus any mitigating circumstances to help his defence - discussed in the court all the same. Let the court decide based on all the facts put before it.
However, he is still on trial and entitled to have his say - plus any mitigating circumstances to help his defence - discussed in the court all the same. Let the court decide based on all the facts put before it.
If you're going to "elope with a student" the smart move is to go directly to a country which allows young marriage without parental consent.
Then you have a chance of benefitting from all the same laws which allow arabs to come shuffling over here with their multiple wives to live in Mayfair, or on benefits, without interference. A marriage is recognised in UK if it's legally binding in the place where the ceremony was performed.
No doubt some officious person in UK would try to argue that an abduction offence had been committed before the marriage so he should still go to jail but the media would no doubt be braying for sympathy for the "poor young bride deprived of her husband".
Then you have a chance of benefitting from all the same laws which allow arabs to come shuffling over here with their multiple wives to live in Mayfair, or on benefits, without interference. A marriage is recognised in UK if it's legally binding in the place where the ceremony was performed.
No doubt some officious person in UK would try to argue that an abduction offence had been committed before the marriage so he should still go to jail but the media would no doubt be braying for sympathy for the "poor young bride deprived of her husband".
Breadvan72 said:
The consent of the child is no defence. A child cannot lawfully consent to be abducted and cannot consent to sex with an adult. I can't see how this guy is going to succeed on a defence of lawful authority or reasonable excuse, but we shall see.
On the strength of the girl's evidence the jury might well nullify...I had a crush on a teacher when I was 14 and shamelessly encouraged him.
Fortunately for him (and me) he was mature enough to deal with that and in a very kind way although he was only in his mid twenties.
Yes the girl in this particular story was 15 but, as far as I'm concerned, relationships are NEVER simple.
Fortunately for him (and me) he was mature enough to deal with that and in a very kind way although he was only in his mid twenties.
Yes the girl in this particular story was 15 but, as far as I'm concerned, relationships are NEVER simple.
thing with teaching is that sometimes crushes do happen. it's not personal and it certainly isn't because you're fabulous. it's the equivalent of a baby goose hatching and seeing someone in stripy socks with bells hanging off, they can just imprint. he should have spotted it and nipped it in the bud sharpish.
fluffnik said:
On the strength of the girl's evidence the jury might well nullify...
I think the chance of that is close to nil.There would be public outrage for starters, and whilst that shouldn't necessarily sway courts minds they will surely be minded of the particular circumstances of this alleged abduction. This isn't like a friend of hers or even an extended family member absconding with her,
Parents leave their children in the care of teachers with an expectation that they won't be preyed upon. It's pretty much the only time parents are expected to be able to "let go" of their responsibilities, so there will surely be an increased level of scrutiny and aggravating circumstances applied to this case. Teachers are (rightfully) subjected to a higher standard because they are in a position of authority, and parents submit their children to them.
It's also quite possible they will consider her evidence in the context of her still being at an impressionable age, or even that "the damage has already been done" to her psychologically.
It is conceivable that she does know her own mind, and that she genuinely does love him (still). 15 year olds can be mature, I don't believe in the notion that your capability to have free will and make considered decisions to be something that occurs overnight on your 16th or 18th birthday, though obviously the risk of influence and coersion would I presume increase dramatically as the age gets younger. That being said it's not really relevant to the charge - though titillating stories of their alleged hotel room trists sells newspapers.
I guess this is all immaterial to the case though. If he is found guilty of abduction, and I think the chances are very high, he will I imagine be looking at a custodial sentence of several months/year as well as the obvious lifetime ban from teaching/interaction with children. I would be quite surprised if he got a suspended sentence since the bench will have one eye on the obvious deterrent & public awareness elements.
Edited by Durzel on Wednesday 19th June 03:21
cornishgirl said:
I had a crush on a teacher when I was 14 and shamelessly encouraged him.
Fortunately for him (and me) he was mature enough to deal with that and in a very kind way although he was only in his mid twenties.
Yes the girl in this particular story was 15 but, as far as I'm concerned, relationships are NEVER simple.
This post sums it up perfectly.Fortunately for him (and me) he was mature enough to deal with that and in a very kind way although he was only in his mid twenties.
Yes the girl in this particular story was 15 but, as far as I'm concerned, relationships are NEVER simple.
The victim in this current case may be doing her best to defend the teacher now, but in 15 yrs time when she has grown up and maybe has a daughter of her own, she will be really angry at how her immaturity was exploited by someone who should have known better.
Breadvan72 said:
Note also that Forrest started to groom the girl when she was just 14. The fact that the girl may still have a teenage infatuation with Forrest is nothing to the point here. It's his conduct that matters, not hers.
What is the definition of 'groom'? That seems to be quite a 'loaded' term - pre-supposing intentions...ViperPict said:
Breadvan72 said:
Note also that Forrest started to groom the girl when she was just 14. The fact that the girl may still have a teenage infatuation with Forrest is nothing to the point here. It's his conduct that matters, not hers.
What is the definition of 'groom'? That seems to be quite a 'loaded' term - pre-supposing intentions...
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