Road rage & Me

[Gwagon111]

WeirdNeville said:

n the balance of probabilities, and in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I'll choose to believe the OP, his horrific injuries, and the people who came to his aid over your underworld connection rumor mill, if you don't mind.

Edited by WeirdNeville on Wednesday 19th June 07:23

But to look at it from another perspective, just suppose a troll post appears on a forum, talking about a fictitious event, but giving details of a car type, and location that do exist. Someone who lives in that area, happens to drive a vehicle which is like the one described in the troll post. That vehicle is then spotted, and dealt with by (for example) a routine police patrol. I know it wouldn't take very long for the police to check if indeed there had been a report of any incidents, such as described in the troll post. However, in the intervening minutes, someone is inconvenienced for nothing. On the flip side, if the post is genuine, I suppose it could expediate the removal of a dangerous nutter from the roads / the world in general. But I still have my doubts about this incident. I'm sure a quick 'freedom of information act' enquiry about any reports of such an incident, to the relavent people would put it beyond doubt . I haven't got the time or inclination to do it myself mind you. The point is that if it did happen, I hope the perp is found, and dealt with quickly. If it didn't happen, it's not smart to use an existing vehicle model, and location in a troll post ( no offence to the O.P. if he's genuine ).

[margerison]

WeirdNeville said:

So, do you arrest only the white males? Only the ones with history of violence?
Are you sure that arrest is lawful?
How confident are you in the parameters you chose for your search area?
Do you not arrest the female registered keepers? What if their son also drives the car or just has access to it? Are you arresting whole families now, or family members who fit the description?

...

And what are you going to do about the cars that belong to companies, and even worse the hire cars?

Edited by WeirdNeville on Wednesday 19th June 07:33

I think the OP said the police had some fingerprints. Are you allowed to check those against any male connected with these cars without arresting them?

[Strawman]

I think the police can request an individual to provide a fingerprint or DNA swab or whatever, to eliminate that person from their inquiries (or not), but if the person won't they can't compel them, unless they have a reasonable case against them already.

[J4CKO]

WeirdNeville said:

You run the search given 20 miles radius of the area of the attack.
You get 42 Black/Dark Kia Carens. 20 are privately registered, 15 are lease cars, 5 are hire company cars, 2 are in trade. Basic intel checks give you 70 names linked to these cars, of which 4 are white males with previous convictions for violent offences and 2 for road rage type offences.

Can you be sure that:
1) Your suspect lives in the area of your search?
2) The offender is the registered keeper of the car, or even related to a registered keeper?
3) That the vehicle in question was on correct plates?
4) That the vehicle is registered within 20 miles of the attack?
5) Arrest of any/all of these people would actually be lawful, given that you must have reasonable grounds to suspect them of an offence? Is owning a similar car in an area of an offence grounds enough to arrest? Would you take the same course of action if the suspects car was a Ford Mondeo? How would you feel if you were one of the forty (or seventy, if you're going down that route)?

Ultimately, given the resources (which you don't have), if you go out and arrest the 30 or so suspects, or even the 4 with previous violence on record, can you be sure your offender will be amongst those you arrest?

I'd suggest that your investigation plan needs to go back to the drawing board for a bit of a rethink.

If you think my numbers are off, I've just done an Autotrader search for 20 miles from my old work postcode: 29 Kia carens for sale, 11 of which are blue or black. That's the ones advertised for sale! Not even registered in the area.

(I've conducted investigations of precisely the type required in this thread BTW - though thankfully none for road rage incidents this severe)

Edited by WeirdNeville on Wednesday 19th June 03:42

So, you are never more than six feet from a Kia Carens !

There are 22,000 or so of them in the country

[Transmat]

Gwagon111 said:

Another flaw, I know a fair few folk from round that way, no one has heard anything about this what if it didn't happen? I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that it's odd that no one I know from round that way, saw, heard, or has heard anything on 'the grapevine'.

It would be interesting to get an update from the OP at least about what happened during the police statement and what they said about that news article someone dug out with the other road rager local to him with a black Kia.

OP was posting in piston heads Monday.

Any update OP?

[creampuff]

Ej74 said:

My 2pence worth

Location : Area of London West

Individual cuts me up at roundabout, i simply turn to look at him and continue.
Notice he is coming after me on the wrong side of road, lock doors and windows up.
Overtakes and blocks the road, gets out with knife in hand.
Engage gear and i drove straight at him.

Result escape and report to police

Foolish for the guy with the knife. Would be instant jail if caught. The people who he is threatening would still be in their car, vs him on foot. I don't think many people would be bothered about hitting the knife carrying thug with their car while making an escape.

[J4CKO]

I would be wanting, to make sure, if I located him that he suffered a fate similar to "Zed" from Pulp Fiction, well, I would certainly be thinking that way even if I wouldnt actually do anything.

"What now, Let me tell you what now. I'ma call a couple of hard, pipe-hittin' *Chaps* to go to work on homes here with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch. You hear me talkin' hillbilly boy? I ain't through with you by damn sight. I'ma get medieval on your ass.

[Centurion07]

WeirdNeville said:

Centurion07 said:

Start wondering why they would "no comment" to a rather easy question?

Going on Weirdneville's numbers you could probably rule out a few of those names just by the description the OP gave the police i.e. age, ethnicity etc etc.

So, do you arrest only the white males? Only the ones with history of violence?
Are you sure that arrest is lawful?
How confident are you in the parameters you chose for your search area?
Do you not arrest the female registered keepers? What if their son also drives the car or just has access to it? Are you arresting whole families now, or family members who fit the description?

Even under arrest you cannot force anyone to answer a question. If I was a solicitor representing someone at a police station, and was told in disclosure "Your client has been arrested on suspicion of GBH. On [day date time] at [place], A man was attacked by the driver of a dark Kia carens. Your client owns a dark kia Carens and on arrest said "I don't know what you're talking about but I'll come to the station officer" Then I too would advise them to give no comment unless the Police could come up with more, or they had a cast iron alibi to eliminate themselves from the enquiries (although, to be honest I'd still tell them to STFU).

And what are you going to do about the cars that belong to companies, and even worse the hire cars?

Edited by WeirdNeville on Wednesday 19th June 07:33

TBF it wasn't ME that used the word "arrest"!

The general gist I'm getting from you though seems to be that unless you have more to go on then there's nothing to investigate?

[DonkeyApple]

Rammy76 said:

Yep that sums it up pretty much.

I was out "cruising" with my best mate at the age of 18 trying to impress girls.

We'd parked up in a line of cars all doing the same thing, then one by one they all started to drive away.
Naive as we were we continued sitting there all alone not noticing the 2 characters approaching the car.

Before we knew it they demanded to get in the back of the car to get a lift home.

To keep the peace we (stupidly) let them in the car to give them a lift.

These 2 guys were well known nutters high on drugs and very unpredictable, and therefore the next 2 hours being forced to drive at knifepoint in my car were the worst I've ever had. I was so desperate I was contemplating deliberately crashing my beloved FIAT Uno Turbo I.e. (Antiskid no less!) to harm these nutters that had no seatbelt on.

What was even worse was the court case afterwards, us ( the victims) were grilled and made to look stupid by their solicitors, I'll never forget that day. After that they got jailed and their mates continued to intimidate us for about a year afterwards.

Basically what I'm trying to say is don't judge if you have not been in a situation that is as intimidating as that. It is not a good place to be.

On a side note, my little FIAT continued to live for a while, but was never the same again (to me). G481 DSW you will be missed!

Not all car jackings are deliberate though.

Years ago I had two Yorkshire mates come down to London and stay with me. They decided one sunny afternoon to buy 4 litres of White Lightening, a loaf of bread, a block of cheese, borrow my large kitchen knife and walk to Highgate Cemetery to pay their respects to Karl Marks.

Long story short, they drank the cider, ate all the bread and cheese and after an afternoon in the sun decided to get a minicab back to min instead of walking. So, they jumped into the back of a Pug estate at the traffic lights being driven by an Indian chap. Two pissed Northern idiots and my large kitchen knife.

When they got to my flat and climbed out, before they could turn around to pay the driver he was screaming down the road with his back doors still open. It was only at that point they began to think the chap may not have been a minicab at all, just some poor sod sitting at the traffic lights when his world collided with two monkeys.

[Centurion07]

WeirdNeville said:

*Sneaky stuff I can't talk about - would also be going on.

I would like to hear more about this^.

[Petrolhead95]

sulli said:

Very disturbing post this. Is it not an opportunity for a massive community, Pistonheads, to come together and use our resources to help the police catch this psycho?
How about a front page story?
If there is a description of the attacker and make and model of the car, the wider that the story gets makes it more likely this bloke can be identified? Should this not find its way into the press?
I will be sharing this on Twitter to get I started, #roadragePH

This actually sometimes works. I don't know if anyone follows Jalopnik on Facebook/Twitter, but when someone has been seriously hurt in a hit and run etc, they post up the details to their 200,000+ fans and the culprit is normally caught.

Surely Pistonheads with almost 10x the amount of people can do something?!

[J4CKO]

Petrolhead95 said:

Surely Pistonheads with almost 10x the amount of people can do something?!

Are you calling for VBRJ ?

[saaby93]

Centurion07 said:

WeirdNeville said:

*Sneaky stuff I can't talk about - would also be going on.

I would like to hear more about this^.

[micawrx]

WeirdNeville said:

you're back to arresting everyone - it's the only way to "force" someone to give fngerprints.

Does PACE not give the police the rights to collect fingerprint/DNA evidence as they wish? or at least under caution?

[sulli]

The Crack Fox said:

Let the Police do their job !

Anything Gung-ho you might do would probablyg jeapordise the investigation, everyone wants this thug put away, let the law do it's thing.

The police have a job finding him, the intention is to assist in this, nothing else. Seems like I am the only one to tweet it though, so the community here doesn't seem interested, which I think is a shame.
There are plenty of examples where media is used to identify offenders, there has been absolutely no suggestion of anything else, if that's what you thought, I.e. vigilantism. Anyway, I would leave this character down to the Police, he sounds like a nutter, not that I would bother anyway for anyone but my family. Nevertheless, keen to help a fellow petrolhead who has been the innocent victim of mindless violence. Anyone else?

1. roadragePH

[daveky]

croyde said:

All well and good but there are never any police around to instigate these fines. I firmly believe that now policing is all done by cameras there is a lot more idiotic, dangerous and lunatic driving.

Back when I were a lad driving and riding motorcycles we were constantly stopped for all sorts of things. The police were everywhere but now it's all eye in the sky people seemed to have stopped driving nicely or bothering with things like tax and insurance.

Was thinking this yesterday. Driving manners are often terrible now mainly due to overcrowding, frustration and lack of any chance of getting caught. Lot of frustration brought out onto the road due to personal circumstances - high levels of family breakdown, generation rent etc. It's rare to even do a short (<5 mile) journey and not see some incident of impatience, bullying, racing around or dangerous/careless driving and unless police are put back on the road in significant numbers (which isn't going to happen as long as the government has to run crazy levels of borrowing to fund tax credit benefits) it's only going to get worse.

It really is shameful how this country has been run into the ground over the last 20 years through a combination of mass immigration overcrowding and crazy welfare encouraging the wrong sort to proliferate.

[Transmat]

Any update OP?

[randomeddy]

giblet said:

I thought this thread would make me calm down but seems I still end up swearing at people on the road who act like fknuts. Had a prick try to barge me off the road instead of letting me merge in. My windows were open and I ended up shouting some abuse towards him, maybe I need to remain silent.

OR maybe you need to queue up like he has had to do.

[Centurion07]

randomeddy said:

giblet said:

I thought this thread would make me calm down but seems I still end up swearing at people on the road who act like fknuts. Had a prick try to barge me off the road instead of letting me merge in. My windows were open and I ended up shouting some abuse towards him, maybe I need to remain silent.

OR maybe you need to queue up like he has had to do.

Do you understand english? He said merge, not jump the queue.

[Efbe]

randomeddy said:

giblet said:

I thought this thread would make me calm down but seems I still end up swearing at people on the road who act like fknuts. Had a prick try to barge me off the road instead of letting me merge in. My windows were open and I ended up shouting some abuse towards him, maybe I need to remain silent.

OR maybe you need to queue up like he has had to do.

tool