Most undeservedly unlucky racing driver
Discussion
Hmmmm, fastest man on track when Prost gifted Monaco win from one J Ickx (CoC)? Not Senna. Bellof.
Fastest lap ever round the Ring. Bellof.
Hmmm, yes, over-rated.
Webber proved you can pass up Eau Rouge when he moved on the (well mannered) Alonso a couple of years back. Ickx turned in on him....IMHO.
The man just had speeeeeed.
Like Tony Brise, a light snuffed out before it could really dazzle. But I saw him in a 956 and he was head and shoulders above all the old guard. Only other time saw similar was Stookie on slicks in the wet in a 962, but he is just a freak!
I suggest hose who think he was over-rated never actually saw him race or weren't interested in the sport when he was current. If they were, shame on you for calling yourself fans!
Just need Roebuck to stop carping on about Gilles V and tell the hoi-poloi how good Bellof was.
Fastest lap ever round the Ring. Bellof.
Hmmm, yes, over-rated.
Webber proved you can pass up Eau Rouge when he moved on the (well mannered) Alonso a couple of years back. Ickx turned in on him....IMHO.
The man just had speeeeeed.
Like Tony Brise, a light snuffed out before it could really dazzle. But I saw him in a 956 and he was head and shoulders above all the old guard. Only other time saw similar was Stookie on slicks in the wet in a 962, but he is just a freak!
I suggest hose who think he was over-rated never actually saw him race or weren't interested in the sport when he was current. If they were, shame on you for calling yourself fans!
Just need Roebuck to stop carping on about Gilles V and tell the hoi-poloi how good Bellof was.
phatgixer said:
Hmmmm, fastest man on track when Prost gifted Monaco win from one J Ickx (CoC)? Not Senna. Bellof.
Fastest lap ever round the Ring. Bellof.
Hmmm, yes, over-rated.
Webber proved you can pass up Eau Rouge when he moved on the (well mannered) Alonso a couple of years back. Ickx turned in on him....IMHO.
The man just had speeeeeed.
Like Tony Brise, a light snuffed out before it could really dazzle. But I saw him in a 956 and he was head and shoulders above all the old guard. Only other time saw similar was Stookie on slicks in the wet in a 962, but he is just a freak!
I suggest hose who think he was over-rated never actually saw him race or weren't interested in the sport when he was current. If they were, shame on you for calling yourself fans!
Just need Roebuck to stop carping on about Gilles V and tell the hoi-poloi how good Bellof was.
When he drove the works 956 he was paired with bell who was a brilliant endurance driver. Unfortunately Bellof had more balls than sense and stacked it at the Ring. It is not a fair comparison becuse he took too many risks and eventually paid the price. The older drivers drove to win not to get fastest laps. i am sure he would have won GP's but cannot ever have seen him as WDC. spectacular but reckless.Fastest lap ever round the Ring. Bellof.
Hmmm, yes, over-rated.
Webber proved you can pass up Eau Rouge when he moved on the (well mannered) Alonso a couple of years back. Ickx turned in on him....IMHO.
The man just had speeeeeed.
Like Tony Brise, a light snuffed out before it could really dazzle. But I saw him in a 956 and he was head and shoulders above all the old guard. Only other time saw similar was Stookie on slicks in the wet in a 962, but he is just a freak!
I suggest hose who think he was over-rated never actually saw him race or weren't interested in the sport when he was current. If they were, shame on you for calling yourself fans!
Just need Roebuck to stop carping on about Gilles V and tell the hoi-poloi how good Bellof was.
RichB said:
Guillotine said:
Phillippe Massa <clip> World champion for 1 corner and about 10 secs!
Which he wasn't because the season had not ended. Not unlucky at all. Bloody lucky to have that drive...
Mark13 said:
phatgixer said:
Hmmmm, fastest man on track when Prost gifted Monaco win from one J Ickx (CoC)? Not Senna. Bellof.
Fastest lap ever round the Ring. Bellof.
Hmmm, yes, over-rated.
Webber proved you can pass up Eau Rouge when he moved on the (well mannered) Alonso a couple of years back. Ickx turned in on him....IMHO.
The man just had speeeeeed.
Like Tony Brise, a light snuffed out before it could really dazzle. But I saw him in a 956 and he was head and shoulders above all the old guard. Only other time saw similar was Stookie on slicks in the wet in a 962, but he is just a freak!
I suggest hose who think he was over-rated never actually saw him race or weren't interested in the sport when he was current. If they were, shame on you for calling yourself fans!
Just need Roebuck to stop carping on about Gilles V and tell the hoi-poloi how good Bellof was.
When he drove the works 956 he was paired with bell who was a brilliant endurance driver. Unfortunately Bellof had more balls than sense and stacked it at the Ring. It is not a fair comparison becuse he took too many risks and eventually paid the price. The older drivers drove to win not to get fastest laps. i am sure he would have won GP's but cannot ever have seen him as WDC. spectacular but reckless.Fastest lap ever round the Ring. Bellof.
Hmmm, yes, over-rated.
Webber proved you can pass up Eau Rouge when he moved on the (well mannered) Alonso a couple of years back. Ickx turned in on him....IMHO.
The man just had speeeeeed.
Like Tony Brise, a light snuffed out before it could really dazzle. But I saw him in a 956 and he was head and shoulders above all the old guard. Only other time saw similar was Stookie on slicks in the wet in a 962, but he is just a freak!
I suggest hose who think he was over-rated never actually saw him race or weren't interested in the sport when he was current. If they were, shame on you for calling yourself fans!
Just need Roebuck to stop carping on about Gilles V and tell the hoi-poloi how good Bellof was.
These guys are why I love the sport. Not some cerebral win at the slowest pace. I like the full tilt 100% attack, never say die approach. Keke had it, Peterson, GV had it, Mansell (gawd!) had it, MS had it, Hamilton has it and so did Bellof. I think he thought Ickx would let him through, but sadly either the Belgian was not paying attention or it was a door close...
phatgixer said:
Just need Roebuck to stop carping on about Gilles V and tell the hoi-poloi how good Bellof was.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/ask_nigel/stefan-bellof-the-greatest-lost-talent/phatgixer said:
Like early Senna, Alonso and Hamilton? .....
These guys are why I love the sport. Not some cerebral win at the slowest pace. I like the full tilt 100% attack, never say die approach.
I completely agree. The attacking drivers stirs the soul and emotions and they are my favourite kind of drivers.These guys are why I love the sport. Not some cerebral win at the slowest pace. I like the full tilt 100% attack, never say die approach.
I was too young to have seen Bellof actually race but I know enough to form an opinion. John Watson and Derek Warwick have strong opinions on Gilles: they thought he was reckless and needed taming, Watson isn't keen on the romanticism/hero worship; Brundle has said some of his contemporaries who took a lot of risk ended up dead.
All these posts and nobody has mentioned Stirling Moss!
Actually, no not unlucky - a silly old boy who gave his car to his main competitor which lost him the championship.
I'll go with Tom Pryce, Paul Radisich - good call too for the OP.
How about a thread for most Undeserving Racing Driver. We could fill pages and pages.
Actually, no not unlucky - a silly old boy who gave his car to his main competitor which lost him the championship.
I'll go with Tom Pryce, Paul Radisich - good call too for the OP.
How about a thread for most Undeserving Racing Driver. We could fill pages and pages.
FIK said:
As a one-off, Carlos Sainz at the end of the WRC in 1998 must be considered one of the unluckiest moments in motorsport. Needing only to finish fourth to win the championship, his Toyota Corolla WRC expires 500 metres from the end of the last stage handing the championship to Tommi Makinen who was about to step onto an aeroplane having retired from the rally earlier in the day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P2hvDCAiOU
Co-Driver Luis Moya takes his frustration out on the rear window of the Corolla!
I learned on this very forum that he would not only have had to push the Corolla to the end of the stage, but a further 150 odd miles to the end of the rally.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P2hvDCAiOU
Co-Driver Luis Moya takes his frustration out on the rear window of the Corolla!
A kick in the balls indeed, but I think he's done ok all told.
phatgixer said:
Hmmmm, fastest man on track when Prost gifted Monaco win from one J Ickx (CoC)? Not Senna. Bellof.
Fastest lap ever round the Ring. Bellof.
Hmmm, yes, over-rated.
Webber proved you can pass up Eau Rouge when he moved on the (well mannered) Alonso a couple of years back. Ickx turned in on him....IMHO.
The man just had speeeeeed.
Like Tony Brise, a light snuffed out before it could really dazzle. But I saw him in a 956 and he was head and shoulders above all the old guard. Only other time saw similar was Stookie on slicks in the wet in a 962, but he is just a freak!
I dont thin khe was over rated, he was fantastically quick, as was Ickx when he was young (and still was in sportscars up to 83 when after his 2nd world title he lost a little of his spark ) You only had to see Ickx in a 956 at Brands in 82 to understand, one of the great sportscar drives, and without doubt the best/most succesful multi discipline driver of all time.Fastest lap ever round the Ring. Bellof.
Hmmm, yes, over-rated.
Webber proved you can pass up Eau Rouge when he moved on the (well mannered) Alonso a couple of years back. Ickx turned in on him....IMHO.
The man just had speeeeeed.
Like Tony Brise, a light snuffed out before it could really dazzle. But I saw him in a 956 and he was head and shoulders above all the old guard. Only other time saw similar was Stookie on slicks in the wet in a 962, but he is just a freak!
Dont start on Stuck in the wet, I still hate him for stuffing the 320iT in the fence at Brands in 77 and not letting me get a chance to see Ronnie show him how it really should be done.
DiscoColin said:
For me Brundle is right up there - a strong contender for best F1 driver never to have won a race. Always in the wrong car at the wrong time. Waited a career to get into a team like McLaren and they gave him one of the worst cars (in terms of competitiveness) that they ever produced. Still dragged it onto the podium at Monaco though. I reckon he would have more LeMans titles but not for car defects too.
In terms of 'unlucky' those who have died are generally more unlucky than those invalided out of the sport, who in turn are unluckier than those who remain. However, having dealt with such obvious profundity, I must agree with your nomination from amongst the lucky and healthy survivors.Of course, such a thread is destined to be full of 'ifs', 'buts' and 'maybes'; but when one compares the enormous successes of his most illustrious team mates – whom he was pretty much on a par with until scuppered by things which belong outside the scope of this thread – Martin Brundle certainly warrants a mention…
Brundle never recovered his momentum after his practice crash in the Tyrell during his first season in F1. Like Herbert who likewise never quite got over his Brands F3000 accident. They were both potential WDC but lost that edge physically, you could call it luck of the draw or fate conspiring against them. In both cases they were still very successful. Brindle had great success in Sportscars, a long career in F1 and has do e well in his post driving career. Herbert won GP's, so is part of an elite group.
Possibly not exactly the unluckiest ever, and his memory is unfairly coloured by his time as Massa's stand-in at Ferrari in 2009, but Luca Badoer had tremendously heart-breakingly bad luck at the Nurburgring in '99. This was the wet race won by Herbert for Stewart. It's easy to forget Badoer had been F3000 champion and one of the most promising upcoming drivers during the early 90s but by '99 his reputation had diminished as a result of being saddled with various slow-as-a-rainy-Tuesday Minardis and Fortis. Anyway, come '99 and he pitched up again for Minardi and most thought him a left field but wise choice; perhaps he'd lost the outright ability he once had but as a back-of-the-grid veteran and a good bloke he could be relied on to get the job done if there was a sniff of a result. The sniff came at the European GP after the weather intervened and removed most of the more fancied runners. Badoer found himself in 5th place, with his team mate far behind to protect him from a recovering Hakkinen in the McLaren. You might guess from my name here, that I was tremendously excited. A few laps from the end, the Minardi's gearbox broke. Luca stopped the car at the side of the track, stepped out and immediately collapsed in tears. Back in the pits, Minardi were distraught, but when Luca got back they lifted him on their shoulders to celebrate his drive, and there was some consolation with Marc Gene salvaging 6th in the other Faenza machine.
Poor Badoer I think remains the driver with most starts and zero points in F1. '99 was a defining year for him, not just for that race. After Schumacher crashed at Silverstone, the logical thing was to slot Luca into the Ferrari as despite racing for Minardi, he remained Ferrari's test and reserve driver. Inexplicably, Ferrari chose Salo instead. Two heartbreaks in a year. At least he remained an integral member of the Ferrari set-up and got his chance to race a Ferrari, although by then as we know it was all too late. I remember a friend and I visiting Minardi back in 200-something and Massimo Rivola, the then team manager talking about Badoer: "Good driver" [thumps chest with fist] "very loved for Minardi and Ferrari but lose heart".
Poor Badoer I think remains the driver with most starts and zero points in F1. '99 was a defining year for him, not just for that race. After Schumacher crashed at Silverstone, the logical thing was to slot Luca into the Ferrari as despite racing for Minardi, he remained Ferrari's test and reserve driver. Inexplicably, Ferrari chose Salo instead. Two heartbreaks in a year. At least he remained an integral member of the Ferrari set-up and got his chance to race a Ferrari, although by then as we know it was all too late. I remember a friend and I visiting Minardi back in 200-something and Massimo Rivola, the then team manager talking about Badoer: "Good driver" [thumps chest with fist] "very loved for Minardi and Ferrari but lose heart".
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