How much of a risk is a 986 Porsche Boxster?
Discussion
alephnull said:
I personally would rather not live with breakdown paranoia...You have to fall in love with cars to justify the big bills. If you don't fall in love with it, it could be a short ownership.
Hmm to be honest I think ill end up with a 2.5 Z4 or a 3.0 Z3. The internet rumours will be ringing in my head as im hooning about up in the hills for me to have confidence in the boxster!
As others have said, spend your time looking for a good example. Don't get too hung up on mileage or age.
I have a 2000 2.7 with 111k on the clock, bought for £5000.
I have almost every receipt from new including the receipt for sale to the second owner for £28,500!
Prior to my ownership it had very recently:
Clutch
3 Coil Packs + Tubes
Window regulator
Coolant expansion tank
Roof rods/cables
Discs and pads all round
As you can imagine this adds up to a lot of money. I got lucky with mine to be fair, although there will be a few cars out there which have been as well pampered.
It could still do with (ideally) at least one new control arm (wishbone) as it is creaking and probably some ARB bushes.
As others have said it does not need to cost silly money to maintain, parts are relatively cheap and there is no need for specialist knowledge to unbolt and bolt on parts at this end of the market. The fact is the early cars are getting on a bit and will want some love now and then = £££ as will most other cars this age, but you will want to keep your Porsche in good condition both to enjoy it and also so that it is not a dog when you come to move it on.
There is the IMS issue which I won't bore you with. But I plan to replace mine in winter this year for piece of mind - however I don't mind removing a gearbox in my garage and doing it myself. A specialist will charge you £999 +vat for this.
So the jist is, look for a good one (lots of history, good tyres etc) drive it, enjoy it and keep some money aside as a contingency fund.
I have a 2000 2.7 with 111k on the clock, bought for £5000.
I have almost every receipt from new including the receipt for sale to the second owner for £28,500!
Prior to my ownership it had very recently:
Clutch
3 Coil Packs + Tubes
Window regulator
Coolant expansion tank
Roof rods/cables
Discs and pads all round
As you can imagine this adds up to a lot of money. I got lucky with mine to be fair, although there will be a few cars out there which have been as well pampered.
It could still do with (ideally) at least one new control arm (wishbone) as it is creaking and probably some ARB bushes.
As others have said it does not need to cost silly money to maintain, parts are relatively cheap and there is no need for specialist knowledge to unbolt and bolt on parts at this end of the market. The fact is the early cars are getting on a bit and will want some love now and then = £££ as will most other cars this age, but you will want to keep your Porsche in good condition both to enjoy it and also so that it is not a dog when you come to move it on.
There is the IMS issue which I won't bore you with. But I plan to replace mine in winter this year for piece of mind - however I don't mind removing a gearbox in my garage and doing it myself. A specialist will charge you £999 +vat for this.
So the jist is, look for a good one (lots of history, good tyres etc) drive it, enjoy it and keep some money aside as a contingency fund.
elephantstone said:
Hmm to be honest I think ill end up with a 2.5 Z4 or a 3.0 Z3. The internet rumours will be ringing in my head as im hooning about up in the hills for me to have confidence in the boxster!
I bought a 2003 3.0 Z4 a couple of years ago and so far it's cost me for a new roof motor, air con repairing, a new electric fan + coil packs/spark plugs due to overheating at standstill and various suspension parts both front and rear. If you get a good one you will have no problems, but they can be just as expensive as Boxsters to keep on the road. (I wish I had gone for the Boxster option tbh!)
rallycross said:
Be ready for
Water leaks into cabin, damp carpets and condensation on screen in winter
Clonks and knocks from front and rear suspension
corroded radiator and aircon condenser and pipes watch out for leaves stuck there
Dated unpleasant cabin
Cheap plastics used on heating and switchgear
Poor performance - don't except it to feel fast
Water leaks - There are two drain holes under the bonnet and 2 in the engine compartment. All are easily accessible and if kept clear you wont have any water coming into the cabin.Water leaks into cabin, damp carpets and condensation on screen in winter
Clonks and knocks from front and rear suspension
corroded radiator and aircon condenser and pipes watch out for leaves stuck there
Dated unpleasant cabin
Cheap plastics used on heating and switchgear
Poor performance - don't except it to feel fast
Clonks and Knocks from suspension - Well it is likely to be a 13(ish) year old car. Spend a couple hundred quid and replace the control arms and ARB bushes.
Corroded radiators - Granted
Dated unpleasant cabin - exact same as the 911 (996). Haven't heard many complaints about it before.
Cheap plastics - really?
Poor performance - OK not the last word on speed but one of the best handling chassis you will find.
I'm not sure what everyone expects they are a 40 grand (new) mid engined sports car, the running costs are going to be high!!!
I really like them, as long as you go in accepting £600-2000 a year maintenance costs you will be fine! Do your homework get a specialist to look over any cars before sale and use the results to bargain money off.
People buy em for 5K, get a big bill on the horizon and often sell them on or complain at the cost of parts! Forty grand cars have forty grand running costs that don't diminish with age (usually the opposite!)
I really like them, as long as you go in accepting £600-2000 a year maintenance costs you will be fine! Do your homework get a specialist to look over any cars before sale and use the results to bargain money off.
People buy em for 5K, get a big bill on the horizon and often sell them on or complain at the cost of parts! Forty grand cars have forty grand running costs that don't diminish with age (usually the opposite!)
TwistingMyMelon said:
I'm not sure what everyone expects they are a 40 grand (new) mid engined sports car, the running costs are going to be high!!!
Why? Do Porsche only use materials and manufacture techniques only available on £40k cars?TwistingMyMelon said:
I really like them, as long as you go in accepting £600-2000 a year maintenance costs you will be fine!
Again why and more importantly on what exactly?TwistingMyMelon said:
Do your homework get a specialist to look over any cars before sale and use the results to bargain money off.
Homework is a good idea, but why a specialist, are Porsches using a different set of physics to other cars?TwistingMyMelon said:
People buy em for 5K, get a big bill on the horizon and often sell them on or complain at the cost of parts! Forty grand cars have forty grand running costs that don't diminish with age (usually the opposite!)
Really, or is this complete and utter tosh?nickfrog said:
rallycross said:
Be ready for
Poor performance - don't except it to feel fast
If you us all the lateral grip and traction, even a 2.5 will feel plenty fast around corners (isn't that the interesting bits?) in the right hands.Poor performance - don't except it to feel fast
So to summarise:
Get a boxster, I wont regret it aslong as I expect to have a bill every now and then (something I expect with my MX5 to be honest) but add a zero to the said bills. As I said I will be chucking money in a pot every month for a maintenance.
If I get an oil leak then ignore it until I get (if I get) the clutch changed.
Don't listen to the scaremongering and expect the usual stuff with having a roadster, drain holes etc..
It wont be covering a huge mileage as it will most be an evening blast car and a weekend car.
Get a boxster, I wont regret it aslong as I expect to have a bill every now and then (something I expect with my MX5 to be honest) but add a zero to the said bills. As I said I will be chucking money in a pot every month for a maintenance.
If I get an oil leak then ignore it until I get (if I get) the clutch changed.
Don't listen to the scaremongering and expect the usual stuff with having a roadster, drain holes etc..
It wont be covering a huge mileage as it will most be an evening blast car and a weekend car.
elephantstone said:
So to summarise:
Get a boxster, I wont regret it aslong as I expect to have a bill every now and then (something I expect with my MX5 to be honest) but add a zero to the said bills. As I said I will be chucking money in a pot every month for a maintenance.
If I get an oil leak then ignore it until I get (if I get) the clutch changed.
Don't listen to the scaremongering and expect the usual stuff with having a roadster, drain holes etc..
It wont be covering a huge mileage as it will most be an evening blast car and a weekend car.
In all honesty if you are buying at the cheap end of the market, having or trying to maintain a full Porsche (or even Porsche specialist) service history really isn't worth it. Most bits of the car are just nuts and bolts like any other car, this means any good mechanic can work on them, or even do some stuff yourself.Get a boxster, I wont regret it aslong as I expect to have a bill every now and then (something I expect with my MX5 to be honest) but add a zero to the said bills. As I said I will be chucking money in a pot every month for a maintenance.
If I get an oil leak then ignore it until I get (if I get) the clutch changed.
Don't listen to the scaremongering and expect the usual stuff with having a roadster, drain holes etc..
It wont be covering a huge mileage as it will most be an evening blast car and a weekend car.
Specialists are good once in a while to check things that might be missed, or to do more specific work that is more unique to the car. But apart from those exceptions I'd personally look for cheaper more cost effective ways of maintaining the car.
Remember a lot of specialists will have a hefty mark up on parts and often charge premium labour rates, i.e. maybe £100/hr labour or higher and they may charge £40 for a £10 set of wipers. On this basis you can end up with large bills and costs very quickly, despite not really getting the best VFM.
IMS is I think the biggest risk and there's little you can do to minimise that risk. This is the gamble. But other cars suffer issues too.
I bought my wife a 2.5 Tiptronic# in 2011 and we have just sold it.
She wanted an #automatic gearbox and the Boxster suited her requirements perfectly (part exchanged a 2000 model year SLK 320) for a weekend car/bit of fun.
Boxster was a good car with no major issues.
We replaced air con condensers and steering arms (60,000 mile car).
Also, for less than £100 we had the roof treated with cleaner/colour which improved the cars appearance dramatically (for the better).
A few updates such as coloured wheel crests were not expensive.
Personally, we liked our Boxster a lot even though it was an 'entry level' version.
Good car and great ownership experience.
She wanted an #automatic gearbox and the Boxster suited her requirements perfectly (part exchanged a 2000 model year SLK 320) for a weekend car/bit of fun.
Boxster was a good car with no major issues.
We replaced air con condensers and steering arms (60,000 mile car).
Also, for less than £100 we had the roof treated with cleaner/colour which improved the cars appearance dramatically (for the better).
A few updates such as coloured wheel crests were not expensive.
Personally, we liked our Boxster a lot even though it was an 'entry level' version.
Good car and great ownership experience.
Bought a 2000 3.2S Boxster Tip for £6500 from a used car dealer last April. Typically the sort of place selling £2-3K puegeots, mondeos etc.
Had some history some OPC some indies. Have slowly sorted it out, needed a good clean, stereo replaced etc. Most done myself. Replaced a rear tyre with exact match to the other side from E Bay for £110.
Had a Major OPC service done last Aug (when it was due) for £395, provided own (non-Mobil1 oil) & paid including an exhaust clamp & a few other odds £326. OPC were thee cheapest, cheaper than an Indie & an OPC stamp in the service book. OPC pretty much gave it a clean bill of health, few bits to do, such as cracked coils & RMS weeps slightly.
Just recently had a Tip box fluid change & re-adaption done at local OPC for a negotiated £320. This vastly improved the gear change quality. I recently changed the wheels because I hated the Turbo twists it was on, new Sports Designs came for £405 with great front tyres & 4mm rears. I did a track day last year & melted the brake sensors, so an hour of my time & £25 got four new ones.
We then did Circuit du Historique Laon & despite some err... spirited driving didn't use a drop of oil.
Jobs on the list are cracked coils, replace plugs & spark plug tubes at the same time, I'll do that as it is easy.
Do I worry about it, no. If the engine lets go there are plenty out there I'll swap it. Wear & tear, funny enough it is now 13 years old so susension bits will need replacing in the future.
Had some history some OPC some indies. Have slowly sorted it out, needed a good clean, stereo replaced etc. Most done myself. Replaced a rear tyre with exact match to the other side from E Bay for £110.
Had a Major OPC service done last Aug (when it was due) for £395, provided own (non-Mobil1 oil) & paid including an exhaust clamp & a few other odds £326. OPC were thee cheapest, cheaper than an Indie & an OPC stamp in the service book. OPC pretty much gave it a clean bill of health, few bits to do, such as cracked coils & RMS weeps slightly.
Just recently had a Tip box fluid change & re-adaption done at local OPC for a negotiated £320. This vastly improved the gear change quality. I recently changed the wheels because I hated the Turbo twists it was on, new Sports Designs came for £405 with great front tyres & 4mm rears. I did a track day last year & melted the brake sensors, so an hour of my time & £25 got four new ones.
We then did Circuit du Historique Laon & despite some err... spirited driving didn't use a drop of oil.
Jobs on the list are cracked coils, replace plugs & spark plug tubes at the same time, I'll do that as it is easy.
Do I worry about it, no. If the engine lets go there are plenty out there I'll swap it. Wear & tear, funny enough it is now 13 years old so susension bits will need replacing in the future.
300bhp/ton said:
In all honesty if you are buying at the cheap end of the market, having or trying to maintain a full Porsche (or even Porsche specialist) service history really isn't worth it. Most bits of the car are just nuts and bolts like any other car, this means any good mechanic can work on them, or even do some stuff yourself.
Specialists are good once in a while to check things that might be missed, or to do more specific work that is more unique to the car. But apart from those exceptions I'd personally look for cheaper more cost effective ways of maintaining the car.
Remember a lot of specialists will have a hefty mark up on parts and often charge premium labour rates, i.e. maybe £100/hr labour or higher and they may charge £40 for a £10 set of wipers. On this basis you can end up with large bills and costs very quickly, despite not really getting the best VFM.
IMS is I think the biggest risk and there's little you can do to minimise that risk. This is the gamble. But other cars suffer issues too.
Oh yeah I wouldn't be going to a specialist, ive got an indie garage ive been going to for 8years and my family takes 6 cars for servicing etc and hes become a friend so in a good position.Specialists are good once in a while to check things that might be missed, or to do more specific work that is more unique to the car. But apart from those exceptions I'd personally look for cheaper more cost effective ways of maintaining the car.
Remember a lot of specialists will have a hefty mark up on parts and often charge premium labour rates, i.e. maybe £100/hr labour or higher and they may charge £40 for a £10 set of wipers. On this basis you can end up with large bills and costs very quickly, despite not really getting the best VFM.
IMS is I think the biggest risk and there's little you can do to minimise that risk. This is the gamble. But other cars suffer issues too.
Its quite exciting to be in a position to own a Porsche, they are my favourite manufacturer and do not take any notice of the "poor mans Porsche" s
t. All I need to do is wait for this money to become available to me (hopefully not long now) and sell the MX5 and go car shopping!
When I had mine (2 years or so of ownership) it required 4 figures spending on it more than once:
1st time was new radiators and condenser for air-con as well as a general service
2nd time was the coolant system for the engine going tits up and dropping all the water out of the system which may or may not have contributed to the aux belt on the engine (one for everything) snapping and taking the water pump with it
3rd time was a new clutch and rear tyres
It was a fun car though!
1st time was new radiators and condenser for air-con as well as a general service
2nd time was the coolant system for the engine going tits up and dropping all the water out of the system which may or may not have contributed to the aux belt on the engine (one for everything) snapping and taking the water pump with it
3rd time was a new clutch and rear tyres
It was a fun car though!
robbieduncan said:
When I had mine (2 years or so of ownership) it required 4 figures spending on it more than once:
1st time was new radiators and condenser for air-con as well as a general service
2nd time was the coolant system for the engine going tits up and dropping all the water out of the system which may or may not have contributed to the aux belt on the engine (one for everything) snapping and taking the water pump with it
3rd time was a new clutch and rear tyres
It was a fun car though!
Curious, but were did you source the parts and get the work done? Not saying either way is wrong, but there usually cheaper and more expensive ways of attaining the same result.1st time was new radiators and condenser for air-con as well as a general service
2nd time was the coolant system for the engine going tits up and dropping all the water out of the system which may or may not have contributed to the aux belt on the engine (one for everything) snapping and taking the water pump with it
3rd time was a new clutch and rear tyres
It was a fun car though!
e.g.
condenser for £110
Rad for £113
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Porsche-986-Boxster-...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORSCHE-911-996-BOXSTER-...
Of which I suspect most mechanics charging £25-35/hr would be more than capable of fitting (something you could even attempt yourself).
Lets say 6 hours work :@ £35/hr
Labour £210
Parts £223
Misc £90 (re-gas, clips, fluid, etc etc)
Still pricey, but I bet you'd struggle to do the same thing to a Fiesta for less, which sort of puts it in relative terms.
Not too mention there is always the possibility that it didn't need a new rad anyhow.
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