15 year old girl elopes with her teacher

[goldblum]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

The victim in this current case may be doing her best to defend the teacher now, but in 15 yrs time when she has grown up and maybe has a daughter of her own, she will might be really angry at how people assumed her immaturity was exploited by someone who should have known better.

On the other hand she may not think that at all. Interesting you think that only at 30 is she mature enough to have a valid perspective.

I'm absolutely certain not everyone who contravenes societal convention lives to regret their actions.

[singlecoil]

In Japan girls do not arrive at years of discretion until they are fifty.

[goldblum]

singlecoil said:

In Japan girls do not arrive at years of discretion until they are fifty.

Didn't know that. A backward society in many ways.
Japan has worsening school discipline records: Ancient religious beliefs and ignorance meet the modern world and technology head on; sociologists blame the 'class chaos' on the numerous and inflexible rules and regulations in Japanese schools that they think stifle student's freedom. It's called gakkyu hakai or class disintegration. They have a real problem at the moment.

[Rollcage]

goldblum said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

The victim in this current case may be doing her best to defend the teacher now, but in 15 yrs time when she has grown up and maybe has a daughter of her own, she will might be really angry at how people assumed her immaturity was exploited by someone who should have known better.

On the other hand she may not think that at all. Interesting you think that only at 30 is she mature enough to have a valid perspective.

I'm absolutely certain not everyone who contravenes societal convention lives to regret their actions.

There are a couple of cases of teachers running off with pupils where they are still together. I couldn't name them, so don't ask me to, and nor could I comment on how often the relationship endures, but it does happen.

[singlecoil]

goldblum said:

singlecoil said:

In Japan girls do not arrive at years of discretion until they are fifty.

Didn't know that. A backward society in many ways.
Japan has worsening school discipline records: Ancient religious beliefs and ignorance meet the modern world and technology head on; sociologists blame the 'class chaos' on the numerous and inflexible rules and regulations in Japanese schools that they think stifle student's freedom. It's called gakkyu hakai or class disintegration. They have a real problem at the moment.

It was a quote, from the Mikado by Gilbert and Sullivan, probably their single most successful opera and one that is still much played today.

Not only did it seem a humorous remark which fitted the context of the discussion at that point, but the particular relevance is that one of the central characters (the one who spoke the line I quoted) is a schoolgirl. Her age is not spelled out anywhere, but she is about to be married to her guardian, but marries the son of the Mikado instead.

Nobody freaked out about it though. None of the contemporary reviews even mentioned it. It was first produced in 1885. Times have changed.

[IainT]

singlecoil said:

Nobody freaked out about it though. None of the contemporary reviews even mentioned it. It was first produced in 1885. Times have changed.

AoC in Japan is currently 13... Something maybe haven't changed all that much.

[singlecoil]

IainT said:

singlecoil said:

Nobody freaked out about it though. None of the contemporary reviews even mentioned it. It was first produced in 1885. Times have changed.

AoC in Japan is currently 13... Something maybe haven't changed all that much.

The Mikado was set in Japan, but it was never meant to be about Japan.

[IainT]

singlecoil said:

The Mikado was set in Japan, but it was never meant to be about Japan.

I wonder when the concept of age of consent was passed into law here? Attitudes have clearly changed over ime

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Rollcage said:

goldblum said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

The victim in this current case may be doing her best to defend the teacher now, but in 15 yrs time when she has grown up and maybe has a daughter of her own, she will might be really angry at how people assumed her immaturity was exploited by someone who should have known better.

On the other hand she may not think that at all. Interesting you think that only at 30 is she mature enough to have a valid perspective.

I'm absolutely certain not everyone who contravenes societal convention lives to regret their actions.

There are a couple of cases of teachers running off with pupils where they are still together. I couldn't name them, so don't ask me to, and nor could I comment on how often the relationship endures, but it does happen.

You could be right, but I suspect that in the unlikely event of them living happily ever after, if they have a daughter of their own who gets tapped up at school by a teacher twice her age, they will be fking livid.

[singlecoil]

IainT said:

singlecoil said:

The Mikado was set in Japan, but it was never meant to be about Japan.

I wonder when the concept of age of consent was passed into law here? Attitudes have clearly changed over ime

I believe that it was set at 13 in 1875, and raised to 16 in 1885.

[Willy Nilly]

If it was a 15 year old boy running away with his teacher we would all be congratulating him.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Willy Nilly said:

If it was a 15 year old boy running away with his teacher we would all be congratulating him.

You might be, but I'd think it was disgraceful behaviour by the teacher.

And I bet you wouldn't say that if the 15 y/o boy ran off with a male teacher!!

[goldblum]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

You could be right, but I suspect that in the unlikely event of them living happily ever after, if they have a daughter of their own who gets tapped up at school by a teacher twice her age, they will be fking livid.

I'm sure they wouldn't encourage it but if the girl and her parents share a mutually respectful relationship and the girl's education is uninterrupted, why would they be 'fking livid'? Why not just 'concerned'.

If it was my daughter however then like most parents I wouldn't be capable of objectivity - I'd be fking livid.

[anonymous-user]

ViperPict said:

Breadvan72 said:

Note also that Forrest started to groom the girl when she was just 14. The fact that the girl may still have a teenage infatuation with Forrest is nothing to the point here. It's his conduct that matters, not hers.

What is the definition of 'groom'? That seems to be quite a 'loaded' term - pre-supposing intentions...

I very much doubt that this man in his thirties started a close relationship with a 14 year old and had sex with her when she was 15 unintentionally.

I really do wonder why some posters here seem so keen to find some exoneration for this man. His only defence would be reasonable excuse or lawful authority. He has, I think, approximately zero chance of succeeding in such a defence, not least because the evidence of his victim is that he had sex with her. What possible reasonable excuse could a man have for travelling with a 15 year old girl to France in order to have sex? Lawful authority is plainly a non starter. It is remarkable that Forrest is pleading not guilty, and I suspect that his lawyers have advised him firmly to plead guilty, but he seems intent on going to a verdict. Nothing is certain, but I will eat a large PH shaped hat if he is acquitted.

[saaby93]

Surely he's been charged with abduction?
Aren't any other matters subject to a separate trial if there is one

[anonymous-user]

Please see above, where the definitions relevant to the offence are explained. Forrest is charged with abduction and can only be charged with that offence because he was extradited for that offence only. The fact that he had sex with the girl rebuts any claim by him that he had reasonable excuse or lawful authority to take her from the lawful control of her parents. If for example, he were to claim that he took the girl for her own safety, that claim would fall to pieces as he has not challenged her evidence that he had sex with her. You don't rescue a troubled teenager by taking her off for a shag.

[anonymous-user]

Prosecution counsel put it quite well, I think:-

"What is it that Jeremy Forrest finds attractive about young-looking, vulnerable women?

"There is a word for it. It's called grooming - being caring, being kind, being close, gaining confidence, gaining the trust of that person and then you can do what you want to do with them."

Forrest argues, without giving evidence, that he took the girl to France to stop her killing herself. If he really feared she was suicidal there were many things he could and should have done to help her. i suggest that taking her off to bunk up in a hotel was not one of those things.

[carinaman]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

You might be, but I'd think it was disgraceful behaviour by the teacher.

And I bet you wouldn't say that if the 15 y/o boy ran off with a male teacher!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2341898/Ride-baby-ride--Shocking-remark-primary-school-dinner-lady-41-simulated-sex-boy-12.html

Though perhaps that's not comparable.


Despite being an emotional cripple I'm not feeling the love in those wedding photos. He's that cool he's giving the impression he'd rather be anywhere else including at home with a pile of marking to do?


People get caught up in the idea of the wedding, as some event, some cool party a bit like George Bishop going to some slap up car launch?

Edited by carinaman on Wednesday 19th June 15:16

[longblackcoat]

Breadvan72 said:

Forrest argues, without giving evidence, that he took the girl to France to stop her killing herself. If he really feared she was suicidal there were many things he could and should have done to help her. i suggest that taking her off to bunk up in a hotel was not one of those things.

Nail on head.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Breadvan72 said:

What possible reasonable excuse could a man have for travelling with a 15 year old girl to France in order to have sex?

That's a massive assumption on your part. Is your relationship with your O/H "to have sex"? There's usually more to a relationship than that.

Nonetheless Mr Teacher knows (or should know) the rules and is in deep trouble whatever his reason for disappearing with her, sex or no sex. The "statutory rape" angle, if proven, just tucks him up even tighter. He's toast.