S2 Elise prices - which way are they heading?

[moribund]

MagicalTrevor said:

I explained to my Mrs that I was buying a car that wouldn't depreciate (or if at all it would be very small) and that if we did need to sell it then it could be easily sold. I was buying a car that I'd always wanted and I'd worked very hard to be able to buy and that I needed to scratch that itch. It was therefore relatively risk free and we'd have a fantastic car to take out at weekends.

I tried that tack - however I think I'd better start spending less money and time on it before she'll be convinced!

[Lotusevoraboy]

It's a car. Prices will only go one way...certain classics or ultra rare excepted. However, the Elise will depreciate less than most. Mine lost £3.5k in buying from and selling to a dealer and about a grand a year is the norm...this is great though...an Elise for £20 a week in depreciation!

[Ponk]

Interesting read chaps. The 111S certainly does appear to be the pick of the bunch for the £11-12k mark at the moment.

I had always assumed the seasonal variances were a myth but S1s and Exiges particularly are higher than when I last looked in November/December.

[Republik1980]

Lotusevoraboy said:

It's a car. Prices will only go one way...certain classics or ultra rare excepted. However, the Elise will depreciate less than most. Mine lost £3.5k in buying from and selling to a dealer and about a grand a year is the norm...this is great though...an Elise for £20 a week in depreciation!

Thanks - a fair point and while the value of most old cars certainly never climbs back up to what it was when new, some vehicles can represent very sound investments when used. Take the Mk1 Golf Gti for example; maybe £10k when new, £1500 would buy you a good one in the mid-'90s and now you're looking at £4-5k for a decent one. Likewise it appears that S1 Elise prices have certainly stabilised, and might be slightly on the up.

Ultimately I agree that very few cars will actually make you money, but it's nice to know they're not pissing it away for you either. Coming from an impoverished history of £1.5k hot hatches I can't see how so many people can just write off thousands of pounds a year in depreciation on a new car..

Do I take it that your Elise was fairly new when you bought it? I'd like to think that a 111s bought for £13k now wouldn't fall much below £9-10k full stop.. although perhaps I'm kidding myself

Ponk said:

Interesting read chaps. The 111S certainly does appear to be the pick of the bunch for the £11-12k mark at the moment.

I had always assumed the seasonal variances were a myth but S1s and Exiges particularly are higher than when I last looked in November/December.

Yup.. I'll be keeping a close eye on 111s prices, and sitting on my hands until January I think.

[pthelazyjourno]

Lotusevoraboy said:

It's a car. Prices will only go one way...certain classics or ultra rare excepted. However, the Elise will depreciate less than most. Mine lost £3.5k in buying from and selling to a dealer and about a grand a year is the norm...this is great though...an Elise for £20 a week in depreciation!

I had mine for 3 years and 40k miles, and sold it for pretty much what I bought it for.

I then bought it back for the same amount.

Plenty of people have made money on Elises - granted prices aren't over list, but buying a 10yr old model is a sound investment, and would be massively surprised if he lost a grand a year.

[SeanyD]

Republik1980 said:

I'd like to think that a 111s bought for £13k now wouldn't fall much below £9-10k full stop.. although perhaps I'm kidding myself

I'd say your not far off the mark given how well prices are holding up

[willld]

I recently sold my 2005 111S privately for £591 less than I paid for it at a dealer, after 4 years and a month and about 10,000 miles, which seems pretty good for any car.

[Lotusevoraboy]

pthelazyjourno said:

Lotusevoraboy said:

It's a car. Prices will only go one way...certain classics or ultra rare excepted. However, the Elise will depreciate less than most. Mine lost £3.5k in buying from and selling to a dealer and about a grand a year is the norm...this is great though...an Elise for £20 a week in depreciation!

I had mine for 3 years and 40k miles, and sold it for pretty much what I bought it for.

I then bought it back for the same amount.

Plenty of people have made money on Elises - granted prices aren't over list, but buying a 10yr old model is a sound investment, and would be massively surprised if he lost a grand a year.

OK. I forgot, this is PH, where everyone sniffs out a bargain car they have no problems with and then sells it for more than they paid for it. Even if this is true,and I accept it may be in a few cases, I would suggest that those have managed to do this probably bought a bit of a dog and invested time and money tidying it up during their ownership I.e. It may have been less tidy or more miley than similar cars when bought, but relatively tidier and lower milage than cars of a similar age when sold. Either this or they have spent some on mechanicals that they have neglected to factor in to their bought for x, sold for y figures.

Check the ads...on average a 2004 car will be a grand cheaper than a 2005, a 2005 will be a grand cheaper than a 2006 and so on. Anyway, even it it does drop a grand a year, or £20 a week, it is absolute peanuts to have a car like an Elise...so do it...get one!

[pthelazyjourno]

Lotusevoraboy said:

OK. I forgot, this is PH, where everyone sniffs out a bargain car they have no problems with and then sells it for more than they paid for it. Even if this is true,and I accept it may be in a few cases, I would suggest that those have managed to do this probably bought a bit of a dog and invested time and money tidying it up during their ownership I.e. It may have been less tidy or more miley than similar cars when bought, but relatively tidier and lower milage than cars of a similar age when sold. Either this or they have spent some on mechanicals that they have neglected to factor in to their bought for x, sold for y figures.

Check the ads...on average a 2004 car will be a grand cheaper than a 2005, a 2005 will be a grand cheaper than a 2006 and so on. Anyway, even it it does drop a grand a year, or £20 a week, it is absolute peanuts to have a car like an Elise...so do it...get one!

Mine was overpriced in many peoples' eyes - considering it had 60k miles - and was priced within a grand of cars with half the miles.

It had a lot of work done on it though so I was willing to pay for it, it was in exceptional condition, and this is what helped to attract interest when I needed to sell it. Certainly when I hear talk of appreciation my car's value isn't rising with it, however, as it now has 100,000 miles and I'll never get over £8k for it.

Spent plenty of money turning it into the car of my dreams, but 80 per cent of it was sheer indulgence (engine headwork, upgraded suspension parts, paintwork etc). Fact remains I had it for a good amount of time, did more miles than many owners will do in a decade, and was still within £400 of the original asking price.

Checking the ads over the past three years, and prices for early S2s have remained resolutely around the £9-11k mark, NA Exiges very rarely below £17k etc. Prices for S1s over the past decade have dropped to a low of £6-7k, risen to highs of £13-14k for a low mileage 111S (and yes I conveniently do have a friend who sold at the top end), and tailed off a bit in the past couple of years back down to the 10k-11k mark.

Interest from Europe seems to have tailed off so prices have been pegged back, but in my experience, over 10 years, there's no reason to suspect you'll lose a grand a year at the bottom end of the S2 scale.

And yup, agree that newer cars are more expensive - that's inevitable, and no I don't think they'll all keep their prices. We're talking about a very specific price range here though - and at £12k I suspect it's not 2006 onwards.

Edited by pthelazyjourno on Wednesday 12th June 00:26

[Paddy Field]

Republik1980 said:

Man, if I could get the other half that interested I'd probably go out and buy one tomorrow!

The car looks fantastic - is it Cobalt Blue or one of the later flavours? I think the cars look great in the darker metallics - blue, grey.. have seen a few purple ones floating about that are growing on me too

My other half wasn't interested, until I took her to see one. Then she started doing the man maths for me :-)

[simpo555]

Paddy Field said:

My other half wasn't interested, until I took her to see one. Then she started doing the man maths for me :-)

Mine never wanted it. Never sat in it. Only ever moaned about the cost of it. Wonder why she's an 'ex'

[fridaypassion]

For a 12k budget I would look for a tidy none S S2 sport tourer. I had a similar dilema earlier this year having set about looking for a decent 111S but with a budget of 12k. Saw a couple within budget but they needed a couple of k spending to get them anywhere near as tidy as cars that were already on the market for only 14-15k

A good 12k S2 will eat all of your budget but shouldn't depreciate. 50k on the miles is a magical figure to ensure an easy sell when the time comes its always a bit tricky with cars leggier than that.

I ended up with a 48k sport tourer for 11k (10.5 after I took the hardtop off and sod it) which I was happy with as it was mechanically superb.

The 111S if you can stretch the budget is equally robust to depreciation you will not get a decent one for under about 14k. The K series engine cars IMO are a safer bet in terms of depreciation that the yota ones. Head gasket smead gasket they are so characterful they will eventually carry a strong premium over the 111R and new S I believe.

[Republik1980]

Cheers once more for all the thoughts

fridaypassion said:

For a 12k budget I would look for a tidy none S S2 sport tourer. I had a similar dilema earlier this year having set about looking for a decent 111S but with a budget of 12k. Saw a couple within budget but they needed a couple of k spending to get them anywhere near as tidy as cars that were already on the market for only 14-15k

A good 12k S2 will eat all of your budget but shouldn't depreciate. 50k on the miles is a magical figure to ensure an easy sell when the time comes its always a bit tricky with cars leggier than that.

I ended up with a 48k sport tourer for 11k (10.5 after I took the hardtop off and sod it) which I was happy with as it was mechanically superb.

The 111S if you can stretch the budget is equally robust to depreciation you will not get a decent one for under about 14k. The K series engine cars IMO are a safer bet in terms of depreciation that the yota ones. Head gasket smead gasket they are so characterful they will eventually carry a strong premium over the 111R and new S I believe.

Thanks - I wholly appreciate your point but the greater poke / better fuel economy / cheaper tax / higher gearing of the 111s really appeals. I completely see where you're coming from though.

I've seen a couple of 111s' so far that have really had me straining at the leash. The cheaper of the two ('02 plate on 43k at £12k) has apparently just had a service and a load of work done; although there is no mention of the head gasket or suspension having had any attention so this could well fit in with your point that it'll probably need some more money chucking at it in the near future.

The other ('05 plate on 55k at £13k) has had a lot more work done, however an engine rebuild is mentioned so this sets alarm bells ringing (although I suppose there's no reason it should if the work has been done properly).

I agree with the philosophy that it's better to go with a better example of a lower-specced model than a poor example of a higher-specced model at the same price - I'll have to view a few and make up my own mind I suppose.

I also agree about the K-series cars; despite potential reliability issues they're apparently lighter with better weight distribution and certainly offer more bang for your buck than Toyota-engined cars of comparable performance.

I've noticed that stuff is slow to shift in the classifieds (which I'd like to think means that cars might be going for less than it's advertised price) however in reality I suspect that this is just because of the relatively small market for such cars.

Anyway, thanks again for everyone's input

[simpo555]

Prices are 'firm' across the range. Depreciation is not a serious issue, no doubt due to limited supply of cars. I would also say that cars are selling rather well despite the current financial situation. However, it remains a limited market, where sales volumes are small. Makes owning one less onerous than other makes but either way it costs you money. As has been said, ownership costs need to take into account maintenance, depreciation and insurance costs amongst but a few. Some gloat how they bought and sold their car for the same price, forgetting to add in the servicing costs. Bit like the gambler that says he never loses. Stupid to suggest Rover engined cars will hold up better than Toya models. I know people that wouldn't touch a Rover engined model with a barge pole and vice versa. Price argument is purely based on which camp you fall into. Obviously Rover models being at the 'bottom end' of the price spectrum, lose less in quantitive terms. 10% of 12K is obviously less than 10% on a 25K car. One could say the Toya S is perhaps less attractive due to its lower power but running costs are lower. Will be interesting to see how prices hold up in the long term. Will availability of second hand V6 Exiges in the future cause greater depreciation on S1 S2 cars. Evidently not happened so far as can be seen for prices on S1 Exiges. However, the V6 is apparently significantly better in performance and quality terms to put older models in the 'outdated' category. This was never the case with S1 and S2's which explains the continued strength of the cars at the current time. A year or two down the line and this could all change, or not. All depends on numbers sold and no doubt on the future of the company. Buy the best you can and then enjoy it. Smiles per miles far more important and any Lotus has them in abundance.

[fridaypassion]

The other angle on the new exige is that it's so expensive that it makes the older cars look even better value for money and actually firm up prices even more. I've seen this happen with a couple of brands as new cars are so much more expensive than they were 5/6 years ago.

[fridaypassion]

It's always hard to tell the UK figures are always dire but I don't think they release international figures where they do most business.

[kambites]

Where do the plan on selling the Exige V6 if not in the UK? It's not type approved for the US, is it?

[pthelazyjourno]

kambites said:

Where do the plan on selling the Exige V6 if not in the UK? It's not type approved for the US, is it?

They've sent a couple of V6 Cup cars over there.

[MJK 24]

fridaypassion said:

It's always hard to tell the UK figures are always dire but I don't think they release international figures where they do most business.

They made just under 940 cars in 2012. That's all models, worldwide.

[kambites]

MJK 24 said:

fridaypassion said:

It's always hard to tell the UK figures are always dire but I don't think they release international figures where they do most business.

They made just under 940 cars in 2012. That's all models, worldwide.

Now that doesn't sound like too bad to me for a company as small as Lotus (it'd put their revenue at somewhere around the £40,000,000 mark?), but how many did they actually sell?