Discussion
Meoricin said:
egor110 said:
So the fact your kicking off about this means you don't agree with lower speed limits around schools?
So the fact you're ok with this means you want cars banned?Hey, look - I can do straw man too!
I agree with lower speed limits around schools though and you'd be the first to be bleating on if your offspring got hit by a car.
Rovinghawk said:
I never said anything about its merits or otherwise with respect to turning little yobs into potential prime ministers. I was disputing your assertion that only the inner sanctum were fit to hold opinions on the subject.
You did imply it was a bad idea with the gang-rape. Rovinghawk said:
I will say that I would prefer the kids to be inside the classroom being educated in subjects other than 'speed kills' indoctrination & 'Officialdom 101'.
There are no problem with people having an opinion. Personally, I try to be reasonably informed before I give mine. People here may not like the road safety part, I get that and it's hardly a surprise, but to write the whole thing off and essentially suggest that there's some indoctrination and 'speed kills' conspiracy is laughable.
La Liga said:
People here may not like the road safety part, I get that and it's hardly a surprise, but to write the whole thing off and essentially suggest that there's some indoctrination and 'speed kills' conspiracy is laughable.
Is it?After the election didn't they say they'd change planning regulations so surburban developments would have car parking rules or guidelines loosened off or scrapped?
Councils for whatever the reasons look to restrict car use, be it because they've an anti-car agenda or they see car use as a source of revenue.
Councils aren't 'partner organisations' that the police also work with?
Isn't the targetting of car use and motoring offences by Councils as a source of revenue like the modus operandi of Speed Camera Partnerships?
The beloved precautionary principle?
It's good to engender an anti car use sentiment as it helps save the planet?
'Get the plebs on the buses'?
La Liga said:
People here may not like the road safety part, I get that and it's hardly a surprise, but to write the whole thing off and essentially suggest that there's some indoctrination and 'speed kills' conspiracy is laughable.
Isn't that what's happened in Australia? One of my cousins there, admittedly the one with three sons was very anti-speeding and I think that could be due to the way speeding is dealt with in the wider society?Fozziebear said:
It's down to parents or carers to teach children how to cross the road without being run over
That would be fantastic if we lived in a perfect world. We don't though, so in the real world, should we stick our head in the sand and pretend it's not a problem, or is it better that someone teaches children about road safety rather than no one?And for what it's worth, it's rarely teachers that teach road safety - someone cheaper teaches it and the teachers themselves use the time for preparing for other "real" lessons or working on the 101 other non teaching admin tasks that they get saddled with.
La Liga said:
You did imply it was a bad idea with the gang-rape.
No- the implication was that one did not have to have great experience to be entitled to a viewpoint.La Liga said:
People here may not like the road safety part,
I hope I speak for the majority when I say that there's no problem whatsoever with the idea of road safety. The problem is with how this road safety is implemented.MrTrilby said:
Fozziebear said:
It's down to parents or carers to teach children how to cross the road without being run over
That would be fantastic if we lived in a perfect world. We don't though, so in the real world, should we stick our head in the sand and pretend it's not a problem, or is it better that someone teaches children about road safety rather than no one?And for what it's worth, it's rarely teachers that teach road safety - someone cheaper teaches it and the teachers themselves use the time for preparing for other "real" lessons or working on the 101 other non teaching admin tasks that they get saddled with.
te. I know how much extra teachers have to do a friend is one. My friends kid that's been involved such an operation and featured in the local newspaper about it has been in three separate car accidents in cars driven by their parents (2 to dad, 1 to mum).
NUDGE? As well as waiving the IPT to those that pass the IAM or RoSPA advanced tests give those that pass with offspring under 18, a £100 book voucher for each of their kids that's valid until their 18th birthday and not transferable.
Pass the IAM or RoSPA test and get a helping hand towards the course books for your kid's schooling? 'You've invested in their safety, we're helping invest more in their academic aspect of their life chances.....
NUDGE? As well as waiving the IPT to those that pass the IAM or RoSPA advanced tests give those that pass with offspring under 18, a £100 book voucher for each of their kids that's valid until their 18th birthday and not transferable.
Pass the IAM or RoSPA test and get a helping hand towards the course books for your kid's schooling? 'You've invested in their safety, we're helping invest more in their academic aspect of their life chances.....
jesta1865 said:
in the report i saw they said that kids were involved because of mp3 players and phones, then went on about drivers going too fast etc, so in fact glossing over the responsibility that the pedestrian has.
also i know i am fully grown (in all directions unfortunately), but i manage to walk to and from railway stations on my commute too and from work using my phone as an mp3 / audible device wearing headphones and i have yet to be run over and killed, i just check before i cross the roads in both directions. i remember the green cross man.
But hang on a minute. You're approaching it from a point of view of wanting to reduce pedestrian deaths! Don't you realise that spiting drivers and indoctrinating kids with the lie that the speed limit is important is much more of a priority?also i know i am fully grown (in all directions unfortunately), but i manage to walk to and from railway stations on my commute too and from work using my phone as an mp3 / audible device wearing headphones and i have yet to be run over and killed, i just check before i cross the roads in both directions. i remember the green cross man.
This has the same distinctly sinister and Orwellian undertones as the speed awareness courses. You will sit there and listen to lies being told (either directly or through kids) by people who don't know any more than you do, and whose motive is most definitely nothing to do with safety, and if you dare to point out any holes in what they say then you will be punished. You're not allowed to dispute whether the speed limit or parking restrictions are reasonable, whether safe driving can be measured in miles per hour, or anything else, no matter how objectively right you are. And it's no coincidence that particularly small kids are chosen for these sessions: the smaller the kid, the more embarrassing it is for the driver to be told off by them. Whichever sad little car-hater thought that one up must be very pleased with himself.
For anyone who really is having trouble grasping this, it is of course the case that any genuine and successful effort to improve the safety of children walking to school will 1) focus on the driving factors that actually result in collisions (i.e. not "speeding", however easy it may be to measure), and 2) also be clear to the children that they have a responsibility to keep themselves safe as well, and tell them how. In other words, focus on what all parties need to do to minimise collisions, and keep irrational personal prejudices about who "should" be using what mode of transport out of it. Overemphasising "speeding" just because it's easy to measure and it's an easy way of persecuting drivers is not acceptable. This is all so entirely obvious, and has been clarified so many times here, that it seems odd that some long-term posters still apparently think that safe driving can in fact be measures in miles per hour.
jesta1865 said:
Hooli said:
Kids, ideal people to judge driving standards 
Why not teach kids not to run into the road etc, oh silly me it's never your own fault is it?
in the report i saw they said that kids were involved because of mp3 players and phones, then went on about drivers going too fast etc, so in fact glossing over the responsibility that the pedestrian has.Why not teach kids not to run into the road etc, oh silly me it's never your own fault is it?
also i know i am fully grown (in all directions unfortunately), but i manage to walk to and from railway stations on my commute too and from work using my phone as an mp3 / audible device wearing headphones and i have yet to be run over and killed, i just check before i cross the roads in both directions. i remember the green cross man.
Children crossing the road are ‘distracted’ by texting friends, ‘tweeting’ messages, surfing the internet, playing games or visiting Facebook instead of paying attention to traffic.
Alarming new statistics reveal that serious road accidents involving young children are at a ten-year high – particularly among girls.
Streaky
It's not just kids though, how often do you see drivers on the mobile, fiddling with the CD player/iPod.
Trouble is most people want safe roads, in there neighbourhood yet they'll be on there mobile in another neighbourhood as if that doesn't account.
If you want to speed outside a school go for it, but if you get caught man up take the punishment and stop bleating on how hard done you were.
Trouble is most people want safe roads, in there neighbourhood yet they'll be on there mobile in another neighbourhood as if that doesn't account.
If you want to speed outside a school go for it, but if you get caught man up take the punishment and stop bleating on how hard done you were.
Accidents usually have multiple contributory factors so going a bit over the limit, or at the limit while there's a kid(s) not paying due regard to their own safety could cause an accident.
Cars = bad, Schoolkids = good, Police = good?
Did I see a link to a newspaper article where the disabled had gone from being cool last year due to the Paralympics and they're now seen as benefits scroungers?
20 limits spread too far from schools given the times and days of the week when there's likely to be hazards?
The road safety religion leads to limits that can be as bad and ill thought out as that dog's dinner of legislation known as the dangerous dogs act?
Cars = bad, Schoolkids = good, Police = good?
Did I see a link to a newspaper article where the disabled had gone from being cool last year due to the Paralympics and they're now seen as benefits scroungers?
20 limits spread too far from schools given the times and days of the week when there's likely to be hazards?
The road safety religion leads to limits that can be as bad and ill thought out as that dog's dinner of legislation known as the dangerous dogs act?
Edited by carinaman on Wednesday 19th June 22:47
MrTrilby said:
streaky said:
A boom in smartphone use is being blamed for an alarming rise in the number of children killed and injured on Britain’s roads, a report reveals today..
Streaky
Sounds interesting. Do you have a link to the report that you can share?Streaky
carinaman said:
La Liga said:
People here may not like the road safety part, I get that and it's hardly a surprise, but to write the whole thing off and essentially suggest that there's some indoctrination and 'speed kills' conspiracy is laughable.
Is it?The online education sources I can find, such as this, put the emphasis on the child looking after themselves.
carinaman said:
La Liga said:
People here may not like the road safety part, I get that and it's hardly a surprise, but to write the whole thing off and essentially suggest that there's some indoctrination and 'speed kills' conspiracy is laughable.
Isn't that what's happened in Australia? One of my cousins there, admittedly the one with three sons was very anti-speeding and I think that could be due to the way speeding is dealt with in the wider society?You best write to the world order and inform them of this contradictory messages doesn't help the anti-car indoctrination of our kids, as the tactic plays and reinforces the natural attraction kids seem to have to cars.
Rovinghawk said:
I hope I speak for the majority when I say that there's no problem whatsoever with the idea of road safety. The problem is with how this road safety is implemented.
You do realise a big part of the road safety messages provided to children are about pedestrian safety, since they are a vulnerable group? See the above link. Don't pick a small part of a wider picture and object to the whole picture because of it.
From what I see on my travels it would be far better (if raising driving standards is the aim) to have these gangs of kids talk to the parents who drop them off to school or take them to the shops. If you want to see cars consistently badly driven, look at the school run or pretty much any other place where kids are transported, such as the supermarket or leisure centre.
Saw this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22985019
and thought of this thread. I guess you could look at it two ways. You could say this whole Junior PCSO thing is deffo a great idea as it could reduce incidents like this one. You could probably make a pretty good argument for the opposite, too, on the basis that if there'd been a kiddie speed patrol on duty they'd all have been squished.
I honestly don't know how I feel about the whole thing, anyway.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22985019
and thought of this thread. I guess you could look at it two ways. You could say this whole Junior PCSO thing is deffo a great idea as it could reduce incidents like this one. You could probably make a pretty good argument for the opposite, too, on the basis that if there'd been a kiddie speed patrol on duty they'd all have been squished.
I honestly don't know how I feel about the whole thing, anyway.
There you go La Liga, I even got the Australian angle in for you:
http://www.lotus.org.au/index.php?option=com_conte...
http://www.lotus.org.au/index.php?option=com_conte...
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