RE: Cayman - base is best? PH Blog
Discussion
Harry Metcalfe from EVO has hit the nail on the head with cars like the Cayman, they feel slow because the gearing is too long. Harry reckons its due to the Nurburgring where av lap times are in the 90 MPH bracket. The base Cayman does something like 107 MPH in 3rd and 77 in 2nd which is just silly for a low torque car. If 2nd went to, say, 65 and 3rd to 95, I reckon it would feel a lot chirpier on UK roads and at UK speeds.
Having said that, I drove a 2.9 on a Thruxton track day and it felt sprightly enough, so perhaps part of the problem is Chris being used to his AMG Mercs and turbo Porsches. But when a base cayman is slower than 50-70 in 3rd gear than a £17K Fiesta ST, something is surely wrong!!! (Fiesta 3.3 secs, Cayman 4.1 !!) btw, base EVORA does the 50-70 run in 3.3 secs too, quick car that new Fiesta!!)
Having said that, I drove a 2.9 on a Thruxton track day and it felt sprightly enough, so perhaps part of the problem is Chris being used to his AMG Mercs and turbo Porsches. But when a base cayman is slower than 50-70 in 3rd gear than a £17K Fiesta ST, something is surely wrong!!! (Fiesta 3.3 secs, Cayman 4.1 !!) btw, base EVORA does the 50-70 run in 3.3 secs too, quick car that new Fiesta!!)
Carl_Docklands said:
shoestring7 said:
Has it changed much from the one with lovely chassis and steering (and dodgy interior quality and gear change)?
SS7
Nope, but Lotus are doing interest free credit deals on them at the moment.SS7
- Free plug for Lotus -
Worth a look IMO.
Don't take my word for it, nothing against the Lotus BTW, I would imagine a review from PH is incoming with the same Red press car as above.
David Vivian - EVO July 2013
Lotus Evora S SR
"It's a valiant attempt to sex up what has always been the Evora's Achilles heel: a lack-lustre, poorly finished interior....theres still the old-style ford transit ignition key, parts-bin collumn stalks and so-so instruments. The less-than intuitive aftermarket sourced infotainment and sat-nav....and unforgivably nasty chrome plastic gearlever-gaiter trim...."
David Vivian - EVO July 2013
Lotus Evora S SR
"It's a valiant attempt to sex up what has always been the Evora's Achilles heel: a lack-lustre, poorly finished interior....theres still the old-style ford transit ignition key, parts-bin collumn stalks and so-so instruments. The less-than intuitive aftermarket sourced infotainment and sat-nav....and unforgivably nasty chrome plastic gearlever-gaiter trim...."
New Cayman is a big improvement on the original, looks-wise. I've never been a particular Porsche fan but this new Cayman has me really fancying one for the first time since the 993.
As regards interiors, I like eg brown leather seats and red leather seats, but I agree that the upper dashboard and the upper door trims need to be contrasting darker colour and the steering wheel should never, ever be trimmed to match the seats unless the leather colour is a very dark one. That Cayman interior is too much by a long stretch. By
As regards interiors, I like eg brown leather seats and red leather seats, but I agree that the upper dashboard and the upper door trims need to be contrasting darker colour and the steering wheel should never, ever be trimmed to match the seats unless the leather colour is a very dark one. That Cayman interior is too much by a long stretch. By
Carl_Docklands said:
Don't take my word for it, nothing against the Lotus BTW, I would imagine a review from PH is incoming with the same Red press car as above.
David Vivian - EVO July 2013
Lotus Evora S SR
"It's a valiant attempt to sex up what has always been the Evora's Achilles heel: a lack-lustre, poorly finished interior....theres still the old-style ford transit ignition key, parts-bin collumn stalks and so-so instruments. The less-than intuitive aftermarket sourced infotainment and sat-nav....and unforgivably nasty chrome plastic gearlever-gaiter trim...."
He's talking bDavid Vivian - EVO July 2013
Lotus Evora S SR
"It's a valiant attempt to sex up what has always been the Evora's Achilles heel: a lack-lustre, poorly finished interior....theres still the old-style ford transit ignition key, parts-bin collumn stalks and so-so instruments. The less-than intuitive aftermarket sourced infotainment and sat-nav....and unforgivably nasty chrome plastic gearlever-gaiter trim...."
ks IMO.Had an Evora S for the weekend only recently. Lovely thing. Had no problems with the interior quality at all. Only problem is that I am a bit too tall for it. Found it hard to get comfy. But I am freak, so this is not a surprise.
Bezza1969 said:
Harry Metcalfe from EVO has hit the nail on the head with cars like the Cayman, they feel slow because the gearing is too long.
Personally I think that's cobblers. Porsches and Lotuses can "feel slow" simply because the engines aren't very big and the torque output isn't very high. If you want to "feel fast" you generally need a big V8 or a big turbo (and then lag can come into the picture). There's a world of a difference between "in-gear" acceleration and "overall acceleration" where the number of gear changes required makes a huge difference. Some cars are geared to just hit 62 mph in a gear simply to get the headline time for magazines and pub talk. But real world usefulness can very different.
I believe about 2/3rds of Porsches are sold with PDK and they are quicker than manual cars because shifts are quicker. The driveline management computer will also have the car in the right gear at the right time. It's no accident that modern autos often carry 7 or 8 gears. If St Harry of EVO can't find a ratio he likes I suspect that's down to him, not the car.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Bezza1969 said:
Harry Metcalfe from EVO has hit the nail on the head with cars like the Cayman, they feel slow because the gearing is too long.
Personally I think that's cobblers. Porsches and Lotuses can "feel slow" simply because the engines aren't very big and the torque output isn't very high. If you want to "feel fast" you generally need a big V8 or a big turbo (and then lag can come into the picture). There's a world of a difference between "in-gear" acceleration and "overall acceleration" where the number of gear changes required makes a huge difference. Some cars are geared to just hit 62 mph in a gear simply to get the headline time for magazines and pub talk. But real world usefulness can very different.
I believe about 2/3rds of Porsches are sold with PDK and they are quicker than manual cars because shifts are quicker. The driveline management computer will also have the car in the right gear at the right time. It's no accident that modern autos often carry 7 or 8 gears. If St Harry of EVO can't find a ratio he likes I suspect that's down to him, not the car.
Ozzie Osmond said:
I should add, the latest manual 3.4 litre Boxster and Cayman are capable of 170 mph yet can be driven comfortably in 6th (top) gear from as slow as 30 mph.
Given there's a choice of 5 lower ratios as well I find it difficult to describe that gearing as "too long".
I tried a 991 recently, with a 7 speed manual box. Third ran to about 125mph; I'd say that was too long for any road short of a deserted autobahn.Given there's a choice of 5 lower ratios as well I find it difficult to describe that gearing as "too long".
SS7
Terminator X said:
Gary C said:
I think the most worrying part of the article is the response of the epas !
Forget the power & pdk, if the steering is as dead as described then I dont want one. Major fckup by the sound of it.
Imho the manufacturers don't particularly want leccy steering, they have to use it though to reduce CO2 emissions, ditto the pdk gearboxes. The sooner the Govt stop banging the CO2 drum the better it will be for all of us.Forget the power & pdk, if the steering is as dead as described then I dont want one. Major fckup by the sound of it.
TX.
Gary C said:
Terminator X said:
Gary C said:
I think the most worrying part of the article is the response of the epas !
Forget the power & pdk, if the steering is as dead as described then I dont want one. Major fckup by the sound of it.
Imho the manufacturers don't particularly want leccy steering, they have to use it though to reduce CO2 emissions, ditto the pdk gearboxes. The sooner the Govt stop banging the CO2 drum the better it will be for all of us.Forget the power & pdk, if the steering is as dead as described then I dont want one. Major fckup by the sound of it.
TX.
Now when you watch this review of the 991 GT3 ladies please take note of how Chris Harris - Mr GT3, Mr Manual car and who quite rightly has bemoaned electric steering. Has driven the new car which has lower arms and software changes, but nothing drastically different compared to the problematic Carrera or Cayman and it is now sorted.
Question is - Did this come about because of pressure from your local member of parliment?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVdme4ISq8Y
Ozzie Osmond said:
toppstuff said:
It is time Chris Harris revisited the Lotus Evora.
Truth is, it's time Lotus revisited the Evora. They really missed a trick with that one. Should be selling like hot cakes but ended up as a "nearly" car.It's the rough edges that need dealing with, the core car is amazing to drive. It just feels like they got it to a point and went 'that'll do', rather than then refining and honing it. When I get out of a car with a list of proper niggles (rather than just nit picking) you do wonder how Lotus didn't notice them and sort them out.
Edited by juansolo on Wednesday 19th June 08:45
juansolo said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
toppstuff said:
It is time Chris Harris revisited the Lotus Evora.
Truth is, it's time Lotus revisited the Evora. They really missed a trick with that one. Should be selling like hot cakes but ended up as a "nearly" car.It's the rough edges that need dealing with, the core car is amazing to drive.
It's not as if Porsche can boast particularly good build quality is it.
Fittster said:
juansolo said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
toppstuff said:
It is time Chris Harris revisited the Lotus Evora.
Truth is, it's time Lotus revisited the Evora. They really missed a trick with that one. Should be selling like hot cakes but ended up as a "nearly" car.It's the rough edges that need dealing with, the core car is amazing to drive.
It's not as if Porsche can boast particularly good build quality is it.
I think the Exige will be interesting - the new cup looks awesome, it's fast and should handle amazingly well - everyday usability is less of an issue for this type of car anyway, but it is quite a lot of money although a positive bargain compared to the new GT3!
sisu said:
Gary C said:
Terminator X said:
Gary C said:
I think the most worrying part of the article is the response of the epas !
Forget the power & pdk, if the steering is as dead as described then I dont want one. Major fckup by the sound of it.
Imho the manufacturers don't particularly want leccy steering, they have to use it though to reduce CO2 emissions, ditto the pdk gearboxes. The sooner the Govt stop banging the CO2 drum the better it will be for all of us.Forget the power & pdk, if the steering is as dead as described then I dont want one. Major fckup by the sound of it.
TX.
Now when you watch this review of the 991 GT3 ladies please take note of how Chris Harris - Mr GT3, Mr Manual car and who quite rightly has bemoaned electric steering. Has driven the new car which has lower arms and software changes, but nothing drastically different compared to the problematic Carrera or Cayman and it is now sorted.
Question is - Did this come about because of pressure from your local member of parliment?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVdme4ISq8Y
ks. That's not what he meant at all.Question
Why electric steering at all ?
Why have a system that needed a software update in the first place ?
Did this come about because engineers at VW wanted the best ?
No, it's because it gives a reduction in co2 figures. It probably does not even reduce them in the real world, but on the euro mandated test, it and pdk reduce co2 stats.
Edited by Gary C on Thursday 20th June 18:17
Edited by Gary C on Thursday 20th June 18:18
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