RE: Saab 900 Turbo: PH Heroes
Discussion
Rammy76 said:
Is the gearbox the "weak" part of these on an otherwise strong car?
I suppose it's got a lot to cope with as they are quite a powerful car.
At the time, I remember articles talking about the potential limit of FWD power being 250bhp, for gearbox and also torque-steer reasons. With the benefit of hindsight, it appears that some of those issues are comfortably resolved and the limit is perhaps higher, but I guess, in those days at least, 200+ bhp was a lot, full stop.I suppose it's got a lot to cope with as they are quite a powerful car.
Never owned a Saab, but these 900's, especially the T16s look magnificient - truly iconic designs.
Rammy76 said:
Is the gearbox the "weak" part of these on an otherwise strong car?
I suppose it's got a lot to cope with as they are quite a powerful car.
Yes, it seemed like the only thing Saab did with these gearboxes on Turbo models was to change the ratios.I suppose it's got a lot to cope with as they are quite a powerful car.
But its possible to have a long living gearbox when you use it properly.
The Saab 900 Turbo, in my opinion, is not a 0-100kmh-(0-60mph if you like)car. This is meant for cruising and fast overtakes.
Some pre-cautions :
-No slam-shifting, dont force gearbox into gear, but help it into gear, if you know what I mean.
-Avoid full boost at 1st and 2nd gear
-Give the gearbox some time to syncronize between the gears.
-Use proper gearbox-oil. Some will say that you should follow the specs from Saab (Engine oil), but proper gearbox oil works fine for me, smooth and easy shifts!
-Avoid full boost at lower RPMs, this shreds the cogs to pieces, one day you will notice that!
Sounds strange and idiotic to many of you, but thats how you have to cope with having a 900 Turbo. BUT, there is a consolation to this, this means you have to use the gearbox actively and wisely on every trip you take. Which makes a journey in a Saab 900 Turbo wierd, unique and ofcourse ultimately Saabish!
Yup, gearbox is definitely the weak spot, probably due to fitting five gears into a space originally conceived for only four, combined with the dramatically higher (and peakier) power output of the turbo cars.
As has been said ,not doing dragstrip starts, limiting the boost in first and second and not rushing shifts should normally be enough to prevent any real problems. That said I did once know someone who, having upped the power to ~300hp, was blowing through gearboxes at the rate of about one every six months!
As has been said ,not doing dragstrip starts, limiting the boost in first and second and not rushing shifts should normally be enough to prevent any real problems. That said I did once know someone who, having upped the power to ~300hp, was blowing through gearboxes at the rate of about one every six months!
If I could add my experience to the mix. Have been running a flat front '85 t16s as a well used second car to a BMW coupe for the last 4 years.
With a few mods - type 8 primary gears and vented front discs is a very usable classic that will do 30+ mpg on a run.
Real fun to drive and practical with hatchback - oh and thankfully good in the snow - did I mention my other car is a BMW ahem ;-)
With a few mods - type 8 primary gears and vented front discs is a very usable classic that will do 30+ mpg on a run.
Real fun to drive and practical with hatchback - oh and thankfully good in the snow - did I mention my other car is a BMW ahem ;-)
Top car, my dad had one as his first Saab (had this then 9000 Carlsson, 9000 Aero, 9000 2.3CS, GM900 Conv and now a last of the line 93 1.8T Conv). He had a black 2 door which I remember was rare back then but now? I don't recall seeing a 2 door on the road in absolutely eons...
I still remember the first (and only time) I pushed the door open when it was parked off camber so the door went out and then swung back in...against my shin. Yoiks...that's a lot of metal in those doors! Remember the whiney first gear and the APC turbo gauge as well.
His was an E-reg and I think was £16-18k which compared to his Opel Manta before was double and seemed like a lot of money at the time. He sold the idea to me mum that it was uber-safe, reliable compared to the Alfa 75 3.0 V6 he was looking at and was Swedish quality (she is Swedish).
I still remember the first (and only time) I pushed the door open when it was parked off camber so the door went out and then swung back in...against my shin. Yoiks...that's a lot of metal in those doors! Remember the whiney first gear and the APC turbo gauge as well.
His was an E-reg and I think was £16-18k which compared to his Opel Manta before was double and seemed like a lot of money at the time. He sold the idea to me mum that it was uber-safe, reliable compared to the Alfa 75 3.0 V6 he was looking at and was Swedish quality (she is Swedish).
technoluddite said:
Yup, gearbox is definitely the weak spot, probably due to fitting five gears into a space originally conceived for only four, combined with the dramatically higher (and peakier) power output of the turbo cars.
I sold my '91 FPT to a bloke who looked like Doc Brown from Back to the Future. All was going well on the test drive until we discussed that particular Achilles heel. Doc was driving and stopped the car on a quiet road and asked if I'd mind if he tried reverse. 'Go for it' I said. s
tting Nora - he took me at my word and literally floored the pedal. I have never been backwards faster. Don't think we quite hit 88mph but it didn't feel like far off. Amazingly nothing went bang but I made damn sure he bought the thing...Edited by Risotto on Tuesday 27th August 22:05
IroningMan said:
A properly-researched article would have mentioned that the 900 is chain-driven...
It was properly researched - more that 10 years of ownership, and all that. And this is PH Heroes, not Car Mechanics!I am assuming you mean the engine has timing chains? And not that it has an engine made from chains?
No, I mean that the whole car is chain-driven, with a 'primary drive' triple chain connecting the clutch shaft to the gearbox input shaft:
Third pic shows the sump, with the primary drive housing on the front, gearbox beneath and the nearside driveshaft housing at the back. For added entertainment value the 900's engine sits in the car backwards, with the flywheel and clutch at the front: the front of the car would be on the right in the glowing turbo pic someone posted earlier:
This layout enabled the central final drive/equal length driveshaft design, whilst accommodating the powertrain in the narrow gap available between two sets of unequal-length double wishbones.
Third pic shows the sump, with the primary drive housing on the front, gearbox beneath and the nearside driveshaft housing at the back. For added entertainment value the 900's engine sits in the car backwards, with the flywheel and clutch at the front: the front of the car would be on the right in the glowing turbo pic someone posted earlier:
This layout enabled the central final drive/equal length driveshaft design, whilst accommodating the powertrain in the narrow gap available between two sets of unequal-length double wishbones.
Edited by IroningMan on Wednesday 28th August 15:15
Thanks for the article... always grateful for PR for the classic 900, it helps my parts business I am sure.
A couple of points (not criticism I hasten to add). The classic 900 in all guises handles very well indeed, my own car runs standard turbo springs and air assistors and is extremely comfortable to boot. I find the t16s/aero/spg is a little too firm and rattly personally. The injection models also handle very well but do have a little more roll but when comfort is more important ……..
The gearbox issue is a myth really as I know of at least 3 c900’s on original gearboxes and 200k + miles showing including my own at 215k miles. Misuse and poor maintenance is the primary issue – engine mounts and lack of oil changes, very badly driven cars often assuming it’s an Impreza or Evo or Porsche.
The fact that a guy did a million miles in his with 2 (perhaps 1 gearbox) admirably demonstrates my point
If I can I will add a picture of my own car that is a little rustbound and will be revived shortly though she is MOT’d and roadworthy. White is the new black LOL
Steve Lewis
A couple of points (not criticism I hasten to add). The classic 900 in all guises handles very well indeed, my own car runs standard turbo springs and air assistors and is extremely comfortable to boot. I find the t16s/aero/spg is a little too firm and rattly personally. The injection models also handle very well but do have a little more roll but when comfort is more important ……..
The gearbox issue is a myth really as I know of at least 3 c900’s on original gearboxes and 200k + miles showing including my own at 215k miles. Misuse and poor maintenance is the primary issue – engine mounts and lack of oil changes, very badly driven cars often assuming it’s an Impreza or Evo or Porsche.
The fact that a guy did a million miles in his with 2 (perhaps 1 gearbox) admirably demonstrates my point
If I can I will add a picture of my own car that is a little rustbound and will be revived shortly though she is MOT’d and roadworthy. White is the new black LOL
Steve Lewis
Steve, are you still selling the original turbo and turbo s springs? My t16s is on the usual kilen/bilstein combo which is no good on badly surfaced roads or ones with lots of undulation. Was going to keep the bilstein shocks and go turbo or maybe turbo s springs. Would that work ok? Sick of crashing through potholes and hitting the sumpguard, no good for fast road driving. May go for a rebush as well...
The answer is standard turbo springs which I can supply ... not sure if I have a set of fronts in the garage... but probably have rears.... + a set of air springs. Truly it is like night and day. You get comfort under normal driving and when you apply load eg acceleration the rear just stiffens up as the airbags take the strain. The car no longer speedboats and you find the new springs will not be so keen to extend at the rear under heavy braking. The roll reduces as well.
They may not be the ultimate track set up ...though I might find they are better - never tried it - but for on road conditions - simply brilliant.
They may not be the ultimate track set up ...though I might find they are better - never tried it - but for on road conditions - simply brilliant.
lfc888 said:
Ok then, this is my sadly missed 900 T16S that I sold when I went travelling around Australia.
Last time I had it rolling roaded it had 212 BHP and 217 lb/ft, mainly thanks to a 9000 intercooler and a full JT exhaust.
rollers1 by Paul Honnor, on Flickr
Picture 001 by Paul Honnor, on Flickr
saab900 by
Paul Honnor, on Flickr
saab13 by Paul Honnor, on Flickr
I don`t know whose the gorgeous yellow conv is, I spotted it at Snetterton one day.
That's mine - taken probably 5-6 years ago? You used to park near the main gate, right?Last time I had it rolling roaded it had 212 BHP and 217 lb/ft, mainly thanks to a 9000 intercooler and a full JT exhaust.
rollers1 by Paul Honnor, on Flickr
Picture 001 by Paul Honnor, on Flickr
saab900 by
Paul Honnor, on Flickr
saab13 by Paul Honnor, on Flickr
I don`t know whose the gorgeous yellow conv is, I spotted it at Snetterton one day.
Still got it (now owned for 13 years) and still used regularly, in fact I'm planning a trip to France in it next month. It's on its 3rd gearbox, BTW, at "only" 144,000 miles. Limited Edition Monte Carlo Convertible #155 of the 350 made.
Sorry for late reply - been on holiday.
Hi, yeah that`s right. I worked at Snetterton in 2005, sometimes on the front gate, sometimes as a crowd steward.
Here`s a few more of our Saabs.
saab12 by Paul Honnor, on Flickr
saab14 by Paul Honnor, on Flickr
saab15 by Paul Honnor, on Flickr
Here`s a few more of our Saabs.
saab12 by Paul Honnor, on Flickr
saab14 by Paul Honnor, on Flickr
saab15 by Paul Honnor, on Flickr
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