RE: Honda S2000: PH Buying Guide
Discussion
S2000 is the only car I have ever seen crash at the very innocuous Abingdon airfield in the dry, managed to find the mud banking and fold the sill into the passenger door, it was an S2000 Owners Club day with a good few cars in attendance. None were impressively quick, I remember thinking the one that looked the most serious, full cage, stripped etc seemed to spend all day parked up.
I did wonder how that would have performed, thought as a bit of front engined RWD fun one may be good fun as cheaper than an MX5 fitted with a good turbo kit and should be very reliable. As said previously didn't rate it as a road car, but can see some potential as a cheap and cheerful track car once stripped / stiffened.
I did wonder how that would have performed, thought as a bit of front engined RWD fun one may be good fun as cheaper than an MX5 fitted with a good turbo kit and should be very reliable. As said previously didn't rate it as a road car, but can see some potential as a cheap and cheerful track car once stripped / stiffened.
I've got one - it replaced a 911 turbo (kinda).
The general whinges about it being low on torque are true to a point - for a 240bhp car, yes, it's low on torque. For a 2.0, it's fine. The engine has no problem pulling from idle in any gear, and it's no problem keeping up with traffic. There seems to be a general consensus sometimes that unless you're at 5000rpm and climbing, you're going to get left by a 1.0 Micra. This is incorrect.
I've found mine (an X-reg, bought at nearly the bottom end of the market as a bit of a toy) to be reliable and huge amounts of fun. I've tracked it once so far and found the handling to be a little squirmy on the limits, but that may be due to semi-knackered tyres and geometry that needs to be looked at. I'm no driving god, but I don't think I'm half bad either.
So, we've done the engine. Well, almost - take the top of the airbox off for a free 'mod' and the noise as the engine revs above 6000 is rather good for a 4-pot. It's noisy on the motorway (70mph sees just under 4K) and it doesn't really have any cabin toys - not even a clock, and the radio is pap too (not that you'd be able to hear it). I'd hate to commute in one.
The gear change is indeed slick. Certainly on a par with my 911, maybe better. The handling is predictable to a point, but I've grown out of driving at 10/10ths round wet roundabouts years ago. The ride is firm, but more comfortable than some S-line Audis I've been in. The boot is relatively roomy compared to an MX5 of similar vintage. The electric roof is quick and the cabin, although basic, is very ergonomically designed and I have no problems fitting in it - I'm 6ft2" and of 'slob' physique.
So end my waffling - as a weekend toy and occasional track-mobile - they're great. I wholeheartedly encourage people to seek one out and give them a chance. I've found the accessible performance and handling to be a delight.
The general whinges about it being low on torque are true to a point - for a 240bhp car, yes, it's low on torque. For a 2.0, it's fine. The engine has no problem pulling from idle in any gear, and it's no problem keeping up with traffic. There seems to be a general consensus sometimes that unless you're at 5000rpm and climbing, you're going to get left by a 1.0 Micra. This is incorrect.
I've found mine (an X-reg, bought at nearly the bottom end of the market as a bit of a toy) to be reliable and huge amounts of fun. I've tracked it once so far and found the handling to be a little squirmy on the limits, but that may be due to semi-knackered tyres and geometry that needs to be looked at. I'm no driving god, but I don't think I'm half bad either.
So, we've done the engine. Well, almost - take the top of the airbox off for a free 'mod' and the noise as the engine revs above 6000 is rather good for a 4-pot. It's noisy on the motorway (70mph sees just under 4K) and it doesn't really have any cabin toys - not even a clock, and the radio is pap too (not that you'd be able to hear it). I'd hate to commute in one.
The gear change is indeed slick. Certainly on a par with my 911, maybe better. The handling is predictable to a point, but I've grown out of driving at 10/10ths round wet roundabouts years ago. The ride is firm, but more comfortable than some S-line Audis I've been in. The boot is relatively roomy compared to an MX5 of similar vintage. The electric roof is quick and the cabin, although basic, is very ergonomically designed and I have no problems fitting in it - I'm 6ft2" and of 'slob' physique.
So end my waffling - as a weekend toy and occasional track-mobile - they're great. I wholeheartedly encourage people to seek one out and give them a chance. I've found the accessible performance and handling to be a delight.
Well.....that such a car can rouse such debate is surely a good thing, them men in white coats at Honda must be having a right ol giggle amongst themselves....Me personaly? I am going to put a 3.2 NSX type-R lump in place of the f20, every other car look out!!!! The names Mr Wolf.....
fullleather said:
Well.....that such a car can rouse such debate is surely a good thing, them men in white coats at Honda must be having a right ol giggle amongst themselves....Me personaly? I am going to put a 3.2 NSX type-R lump in place of the f20, every other car look out!!!! The names Mr Wolf.....
How will you get around that the NSX engine is transverse and the S2000 engine is longitundinal?Also it's a wide engine due to 90 degree banks. Not saying it's not possible, it just sounds very challenging.
ETA: I'll shut up. I found one. http://thes2kandtheant.wordpress.com/tag/s2000-eng...
Edited by RenOHH on Monday 4th August 21:44
George111 said:
'tis a fine engine, but it's compromised in a road car. For a track only car it's great ! We agree 
A high specific output does not make a great engine . . . for the road, which is what Honda made, a road car. You can tell it's a road car by the wobbly handling. They should have lowered the engine power output and made it more tractable with more power lower down the rev range and the v-tec was a bit of a chav feature at the time. Have you ridden a motorbike ? I suggest you try one, my 2007 track bike had 130 bhp from 600cc . . . it didn't need v-tec to make the power, just quality engineering.
Yes, the gearbox is very nice . . . part of the reason the engine and gearbox get plonked into 7 type cars, well suited. But these are track day oriented cars, not road cars.
You are talking about a track day car here . . . DS2500 pads etc, these are not track cars, if you want to talk about track cars then fine but everybody else was talking about the S2000 as a road car . . . and for that is is badly compromised and even as a track car, it's not great as it needs so much doing to it before it would even see which way a Dax Rush (7 style car) or Elise, or even a lightly modified Boxster went.
It's just a great fun sports car George! Been for a blast tonight and still love owning it as much as I did 3 years ago when I bought it. Yes it's not as quick as a Dax or Elise but as a drivers car it is such fun. It's not about outright speed more handling. I think many drive like crap as they aren't geo'd properly but mine is set up so sweet. You feel like superman on track with the angles it produces with balanced oversteer whenever you want it. All this talk about wobbly handling I think is partly to do with the passive rear steer they seem to have which I'll admit is disconcerting at first. But once you've done a few track days (or a good few months driving) and dialled your head in to it you realise the Honda engineers and Gan San got it spot on. Then they fiddled about with it to make it more idiot proof by putting it on 17s, tweaking the suspension, VSA etc etc.like the Mk2 mr2 this was done because the masses couldn't compute what was going on under them and crashed them.A high specific output does not make a great engine . . . for the road, which is what Honda made, a road car. You can tell it's a road car by the wobbly handling. They should have lowered the engine power output and made it more tractable with more power lower down the rev range and the v-tec was a bit of a chav feature at the time. Have you ridden a motorbike ? I suggest you try one, my 2007 track bike had 130 bhp from 600cc . . . it didn't need v-tec to make the power, just quality engineering.
Yes, the gearbox is very nice . . . part of the reason the engine and gearbox get plonked into 7 type cars, well suited. But these are track day oriented cars, not road cars.
You are talking about a track day car here . . . DS2500 pads etc, these are not track cars, if you want to talk about track cars then fine but everybody else was talking about the S2000 as a road car . . . and for that is is badly compromised and even as a track car, it's not great as it needs so much doing to it before it would even see which way a Dax Rush (7 style car) or Elise, or even a lightly modified Boxster went.
A 16 inch wheeled mk1 s2k that is setup proper is such a rewarding place to be.
As the ex 911 turbo owner stated there is plenty of performance without revving it hard. It's not chav just pure fun. I've never ridden a motorbike or ever plan too as they are two wheeled coffins and I could write a long list of people I know who've lost their lives riding them. The s2k is what I'd imagine in bike terms a 600 cbr rr or a 600 ninja to be like. Slower than the likes of an R1, Gixer 1000 or Fireblade in a straight line by miles but more fun as its accessible for the mere mortals and not just the likes of Michael Dunlop to extract the power and fun out of without being scared witless. Backed up with the bullet proof reliable Japanese engineering.
And as I remember Clarkson saying years ago "when you've had enough of all the fun and hooning about you just pop the roof up and cruise home in comfort which you can't do in the Elise"
Sure the S isn't as refined as a 3 series or A4 diesel saloon motorway wafter but its nowhere near as compromised as a caterham or Elise. That is why its such a great sports car. Its fun for the track or the road and isn't too biased to either. You can enjoy driving it to the track without loosening filings and then thrash its arse all day round Oulton etc and then drive home in comfort.
One other point to mention about the S2k to any potential owner is tyres. Never run an S on low tread or budget tyres. They are very sensitive to worn tyres and get very twitchy when under 3 mm. I hardly ever drive mine in the wet but I know fellow owners who have literally fallen off the road driving at normal speeds when its been hammering down and their tyres were well worn.
Gaz. said:
Jesus George it's a 2 litre engine with 153 ftlbs with a fairly flat torque curve. There's only so much torque a N/A 2 litre will give.
85 lbft per litre is about the maximum you'll get on an NA 4 stroke engine.Even with a supercharger it only bumped the torque a little (190 ftlbs at the fly if I remember).
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Some racing sports bikes are over that, but not a lot.I'm sure the F20c with iVTEC and maybe direct injection would have been a little more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automotive_su...
TVR at the top
My current car sits at 66 lbft / litre
I have a sports car with torque, a 4.6L TR8, doing 13 second quarters without exceeding 5500 RPM, with air conditioning, & suitable to drive to work, or interstate.
I have an S2000 for local trips, when I don't want the exhaust note of the V8 attracting every cop in the district when I give it a squirt.
If I wanted another sports car, with torque it most certainly would not be German. I can't be bothered with the hassles, & won't wear the expense. No if I want more torque, I'll go to the home of the stuff, & buy a Corvette or a Viper, & stop fooling around.
I have an S2000 for local trips, when I don't want the exhaust note of the V8 attracting every cop in the district when I give it a squirt.
If I wanted another sports car, with torque it most certainly would not be German. I can't be bothered with the hassles, & won't wear the expense. No if I want more torque, I'll go to the home of the stuff, & buy a Corvette or a Viper, & stop fooling around.
George111 said:
You can tell it's a road car by the wobbly handling.
wobbly?wobbly?
maybe "wobbly" means something different in your parts of the woods but this (and its synonyms) is/are the last adjective(s) ascribed to the car by anyone who's anyone who has ever driven or written it.
methinks you might be confused
turboheads said:
George111 said:
You can tell it's a road car by the wobbly handling.
wobbly?wobbly?
maybe "wobbly" means something different in your parts of the woods but this (and its synonyms) is/are the last adjective(s) ascribed to the car by anyone who's anyone who has ever driven or written it.
methinks you might be confused
Personally as much as I hear how amazing the boxster/cayman are, I would be in fear of the engines reputation.
Also I would rather own an Elise than an S2000 if I wanted a focussed car with a noisy soundtrack.
So that leaves the MX5 (perhaps too slow when standard) or...
BMW Z4 as a more ideal daily ride.
So - cat amongst the pigeons time...
How about a turbo MX5 with circa 300bhp? Would this be the best of all worlds for a daily drop top in the UK? Accessible handling fun, fast, fine as a daily, reliable etc.
Thoughts?
Also I would rather own an Elise than an S2000 if I wanted a focussed car with a noisy soundtrack.
So that leaves the MX5 (perhaps too slow when standard) or...
BMW Z4 as a more ideal daily ride.
So - cat amongst the pigeons time...
How about a turbo MX5 with circa 300bhp? Would this be the best of all worlds for a daily drop top in the UK? Accessible handling fun, fast, fine as a daily, reliable etc.
Thoughts?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
A properly sorted MX5 turbo will cost about the same as the average 54 plate S2000, so one would argue the S2000 is the budget car of that pair. S2000 would also get comprehensively, completely and totally mullered by an MX5 turbo, my old Eunos with a GT2860RS and 265bhp/220lbs torque and 940kg wet weight left many an S2000 standing on tracks back 4 or 5 years ago.Herman Toothrot said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
A properly sorted MX5 turbo will cost about the same as the average 54 plate S2000, so one would argue the S2000 is the budget car of that pair. S2000 would also get comprehensively, completely and totally mullered by an MX5 turbo, my old Eunos with a GT2860RS and 265bhp/220lbs torque and 940kg wet weight left many an S2000 standing on tracks back 4 or 5 years ago.
great topicUntil recently I'd had 4 S2k's the last was a 12psi supercharged monster (425BHP)
Properly setup they are great fun, some dislike reving the engine out to make decent progress.
I moved on to a Vantage Roadster with a 5.0 GT4 conversion (560BHP) 4 years later I've just bought "Jaffa" an Imola Orange S facelift but pre tax hike.
Mrs K and I get more smiles out of Jaffa than the Aston, not because of what it is but because of the memories it invokes of the other 4. I can tinker away on it and it should hold its value reasonably well (if I manage to keep it standard
)IF in doubt go and drive a DECENT one
Edited by mikey k on Tuesday 5th August 17:22
johnS2000 said:
Well all I can say is ,if someone who has owned 4 S2000's , then moved to an Aston Martin , then bought another S2000 Convinces me that I'm right and your all wrong 
Until my lottery win comes along I'm sticking with my S2000 knowing I made the right choice .
Ditto here too. The praise of enjoying an S2000 over an Aston or 911 Turbo doesn't get much higher!!Until my lottery win comes along I'm sticking with my S2000 knowing I made the right choice .
I've owned an 05 plate S2000 from a year old. In 8 years of ownership the only issues I've had have been 2 flat batteries, one my own fault, the other the brutal winter of a few years back. I had the geometry set to "fast road" soon after I bought it, and it's been superbly planted ever since. It's a weekend toy for me and I find myself wanting to drop the top at every opportunity.
It's not an easy car to drive in heavy traffic, the clutch is heavy and it kangaroos a bit in traffic in hot weather. My wife enjoys the top down motoring, but finds it hard to drive. Last year I got a bit bored of it, the looks maybe (mine was standard), wanted more power (don't we always want what we don't have) and was in the position to buy my "dream" car, a V12 Vantage which was a year old. S2000 relegated to my parents where it was stored, waiting to be sold this Spring. I nearly posted the advert... Nearly.
After 6 months I sold the Aston. Sure, it was a beautiful car. Looked and sounded great from the inside and out. But sadly I had numerous issues in that time, mostly electrical, that I didn't expect to arise on a car like that and the dealer struggled to solve. One of the quirks of owning an Aston apparently. It was a quick car and an exercise on restraint to keep the speed down. I thought in grey it would be (more) subtle as I need a car for everyday tasks. But I couldn't live with the Aston, it got way too much attention, mostly positive, but I tired of coming back to the car and finding hand and fingerprints over the bodywork and glass. The firsts decent sunny day this year in March I was out in it and saw people in MX5's having more fun than me. I wanted to drop the top and I had a coupe. Maybe a roadster would have been different.
In hindsight I can't tell you how pleased I was I didn't sell my S2000. People don't understand when I say I sold it and went back to the Honda. First drive after selling the Aston was an anti-climax, the lack of torque was clearly apparent and it felt seriously sluggish. But it was cosy, small, nimble, and I missed the wail of the engine as you wind it up. And it just works. Yes it's a simple interior, but I like that, it's dated well. Admittedly since then I have added a few cosmetic mods (OEM front splitter and low level spoiler), DAB radio with handsfree phone and heated seats (which was surprisingly easy to do). Treated the car to a full service and geo and I now firmly believe this car will be a keeper for me.
My wife and I have another car which is her runaround, and I'm always looking at the classifieds. You always want what you don't have, and I seem to be hankering for a forced induction 911 or some Italian flair, but would certainly be as a stable mate and not as a replacement to my S2000.
It's not an easy car to drive in heavy traffic, the clutch is heavy and it kangaroos a bit in traffic in hot weather. My wife enjoys the top down motoring, but finds it hard to drive. Last year I got a bit bored of it, the looks maybe (mine was standard), wanted more power (don't we always want what we don't have) and was in the position to buy my "dream" car, a V12 Vantage which was a year old. S2000 relegated to my parents where it was stored, waiting to be sold this Spring. I nearly posted the advert... Nearly.
After 6 months I sold the Aston. Sure, it was a beautiful car. Looked and sounded great from the inside and out. But sadly I had numerous issues in that time, mostly electrical, that I didn't expect to arise on a car like that and the dealer struggled to solve. One of the quirks of owning an Aston apparently. It was a quick car and an exercise on restraint to keep the speed down. I thought in grey it would be (more) subtle as I need a car for everyday tasks. But I couldn't live with the Aston, it got way too much attention, mostly positive, but I tired of coming back to the car and finding hand and fingerprints over the bodywork and glass. The firsts decent sunny day this year in March I was out in it and saw people in MX5's having more fun than me. I wanted to drop the top and I had a coupe. Maybe a roadster would have been different.
In hindsight I can't tell you how pleased I was I didn't sell my S2000. People don't understand when I say I sold it and went back to the Honda. First drive after selling the Aston was an anti-climax, the lack of torque was clearly apparent and it felt seriously sluggish. But it was cosy, small, nimble, and I missed the wail of the engine as you wind it up. And it just works. Yes it's a simple interior, but I like that, it's dated well. Admittedly since then I have added a few cosmetic mods (OEM front splitter and low level spoiler), DAB radio with handsfree phone and heated seats (which was surprisingly easy to do). Treated the car to a full service and geo and I now firmly believe this car will be a keeper for me.
My wife and I have another car which is her runaround, and I'm always looking at the classifieds. You always want what you don't have, and I seem to be hankering for a forced induction 911 or some Italian flair, but would certainly be as a stable mate and not as a replacement to my S2000.
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