Motoring solicitor in or around Basingstoke?
Discussion
agtlaw said:
They won't disqualify in absence at the first listing but they may do that tomorrow (at the adjourned hearing) - whether or not you're present.
What a bloody faff! Why not say that in the paperwork? The only reason I pleaded guilty by post was to avoid travelling to court which is an hour away. If I'd known I'd HAVE to attend I would've gone along to the first hearing and got it over and done with asap.
Centurion07 said:
agtlaw said:
They won't disqualify in absence at the first listing but they may do that tomorrow (at the adjourned hearing) - whether or not you're present.
What a bloody faff! Why not say that in the paperwork? The only reason I pleaded guilty by post was to avoid travelling to court which is an hour away. 
This is normally written in the explanatory notes.
"If you plead guilty by post the court will normally convict and sentence you on the date shown in this charge. But if the court is considering a driving disqualification, it will not finish the case on that date. The court will send you a notice giving you a later date when you must attend. At that hearing, you can give reasons why you should not be disqualified ... If you do not attend the hearing about disqualification, the court may issue a warrant for your arrest or sentence you (and disqualify you from driving) in your absence."
"If you plead guilty by post the court will normally convict and sentence you on the date shown in this charge. But if the court is considering a driving disqualification, it will not finish the case on that date. The court will send you a notice giving you a later date when you must attend. At that hearing, you can give reasons why you should not be disqualified ... If you do not attend the hearing about disqualification, the court may issue a warrant for your arrest or sentence you (and disqualify you from driving) in your absence."
agtlaw said:
This is normally written in the explanatory notes.
"If you plead guilty by post the court will normally convict and sentence you on the date shown in this charge. But if the court is considering a driving disqualification, it will not finish the case on that date. The court will send you a notice giving you a later date when you must attend. At that hearing, you can give reasons why you should not be disqualified ... If you do not attend the hearing about disqualification, the court may issue a warrant for your arrest or sentence you (and disqualify you from driving) in your absence."
It does say something similar but makes no specific mention of driving offences. It just says "the court may put the case back four weeks without having to tell you"."If you plead guilty by post the court will normally convict and sentence you on the date shown in this charge. But if the court is considering a driving disqualification, it will not finish the case on that date. The court will send you a notice giving you a later date when you must attend. At that hearing, you can give reasons why you should not be disqualified ... If you do not attend the hearing about disqualification, the court may issue a warrant for your arrest or sentence you (and disqualify you from driving) in your absence."
I would've thought if it was due to wanting to ban me in person then it would've made sense to just say "you can't plead guilty to this offence by post". Meh.
Ever the optimist, I'm HOPING they want to see me in person to hear exactly how ridiculous it is that I'm facing a ban for this heinous crime and that they want to apologise to me personally for wasting my time.
Its not a problem driving to the court but may be an issue driving home.
I think it will be a good thing that you are attending court so you can person to person explain the circumstances which will be a lot better than the magistrates looking at a piece of paper that says 69 in a 40.My guess is 3-6 points and a £500 fine.
Good luck.
I think it will be a good thing that you are attending court so you can person to person explain the circumstances which will be a lot better than the magistrates looking at a piece of paper that says 69 in a 40.My guess is 3-6 points and a £500 fine.
Good luck.
btcc123 said:
Its not a problem driving to the court but may be an issue driving home.
I think it will be a good thing that you are attending court so you can person to person explain the circumstances which will be a lot better than the magistrates looking at a piece of paper that says 69 in a 40.My guess is 3-6 points and a £500 fine.
Good luck.
Your £500 guess doesn't make much sense, as the fine is based on income. You guess that OP earns around £750 net per week? Why? I think it will be a good thing that you are attending court so you can person to person explain the circumstances which will be a lot better than the magistrates looking at a piece of paper that says 69 in a 40.My guess is 3-6 points and a £500 fine.
Good luck.
The maximum fine for this offence is £2,500. The court takes a starting point of 100% of net weekly income, but will adjust this within a range of 75%-125% of his net weekly income, depending on the circumstances. Also, OP pleaded guilty at an early stage - he is therefore entitled to full credit / maximum discount for doing that. The usual discount applicable is one-third, but from a prosecutor's perspective, there is a potential argument that he is 'bang to rights' and doesn't deserve quite as much as one-third off.
"3-6 points" is an extremely safe bet because apart from a ban, that's the entire range of available penalty points for this offence.
The guideline for 66-75 in a 40 limit is 7-56 day ban or 6 points. If OP were caught on an urban 40 limit then I'd advise that a 14 day ban is statistically the most likely outcome. However, his situation is interesting as he was driving on a presumably very quiet motorway at 1am in a temporary speed limit. If the prosecutor can point to some cause for the restriction then that's not ideal. If not then OP would be very foolish to fill in gaps in the prosecutor's knowledge.
OP might point out that the sentencing guidelines for a 40 limit were very unlikely drafted with a temporary motorway speed limit in mind. 69 mph on an urban 40 limit road is very much different to 69 mph on a three lane motorway at 1am. Again, perhaps an issue to deal with if the prosecutor has some info to hand about the reason for the reduced limit.
In any event, OP should focus on offender mitigation - employment, family, dependants, others affected by disqualification, etc. Don't forget remorse, one off offence, no question of repetition, and the other usual submissions.
All very useful, thanks.
As regards the fine, for a PH driver I'm practically part-time in terms of the hours I work although this is my sole occupation, so my income is a lot lower than one might usually expect, which the court have been informed of.
I spoke to my insurance company yesterday for some clarification on what will cost me more, 6 points or a ban, and they said it would probably be the ban, mostly in terms of the fact that I would be losing the money I would otherwise have earned, compared with the increased costs of insurance over the next 3 years.
As regards the fine, for a PH driver I'm practically part-time in terms of the hours I work although this is my sole occupation, so my income is a lot lower than one might usually expect, which the court have been informed of.
I spoke to my insurance company yesterday for some clarification on what will cost me more, 6 points or a ban, and they said it would probably be the ban, mostly in terms of the fact that I would be losing the money I would otherwise have earned, compared with the increased costs of insurance over the next 3 years.
Ta.
No I didn't. I emailed the HA who said they could get me the info but it would take 3 weeks. So I didn't follow it up. Then my hearing gets adjourned to today, so if I'd followed up on that initial email, I could've had that info for my rescheduled hearing today! That's why I wasn't impressed that they didn't make it clear I needed to attend the first one because a ban was a possibility.
No I didn't. I emailed the HA who said they could get me the info but it would take 3 weeks. So I didn't follow it up. Then my hearing gets adjourned to today, so if I'd followed up on that initial email, I could've had that info for my rescheduled hearing today! That's why I wasn't impressed that they didn't make it clear I needed to attend the first one because a ban was a possibility.
agtlaw said:
btcc123 said:
Its not a problem driving to the court but may be an issue driving home.
I think it will be a good thing that you are attending court so you can person to person explain the circumstances which will be a lot better than the magistrates looking at a piece of paper that says 69 in a 40.My guess is 3-6 points and a £500 fine.
Good luck.
Your £500 guess doesn't make much sense, as the fine is based on income. You guess that OP earns around £750 net per week? Why? I think it will be a good thing that you are attending court so you can person to person explain the circumstances which will be a lot better than the magistrates looking at a piece of paper that says 69 in a 40.My guess is 3-6 points and a £500 fine.
Good luck.
The maximum fine for this offence is £2,500. The court takes a starting point of 100% of net weekly income, but will adjust this within a range of 75%-125% of his net weekly income, depending on the circumstances. Also, OP pleaded guilty at an early stage - he is therefore entitled to full credit / maximum discount for doing that. The usual discount applicable is one-third, but from a prosecutor's perspective, there is a potential argument that he is 'bang to rights' and doesn't deserve quite as much as one-third off.
"3-6 points" is an extremely safe bet because apart from a ban, that's the entire range of available penalty points for this offence.
The guideline for 66-75 in a 40 limit is 7-56 day ban or 6 points. If OP were caught on an urban 40 limit then I'd advise that a 14 day ban is statistically the most likely outcome. However, his situation is interesting as he was driving on a presumably very quiet motorway at 1am in a temporary speed limit. If the prosecutor can point to some cause for the restriction then that's not ideal. If not then OP would be very foolish to fill in gaps in the prosecutor's knowledge.
OP might point out that the sentencing guidelines for a 40 limit were very unlikely drafted with a temporary motorway speed limit in mind. 69 mph on an urban 40 limit road is very much different to 69 mph on a three lane motorway at 1am. Again, perhaps an issue to deal with if the prosecutor has some info to hand about the reason for the reduced limit.
In any event, OP should focus on offender mitigation - employment, family, dependants, others affected by disqualification, etc. Don't forget remorse, one off offence, no question of repetition, and the other usual submissions.
What I do not get with attending court with a speeding offence why are you allowed mitigation as you did not think about employment,family,dependants,others affected by disqualification before you started speeding.Are there any other motoring offences that you can give mitigation.Do the courts check on peoples mitigation as I would have thought most people would not be as truthful as they should be.
As an aside, there was a woman there registering at the desk being given some general advice by the receptionist. She told her about dependants being inconvenienced as mitigation and the woman immediately piped up about her sick mother. Fair enough. Except this woman was up for no insurance and upon being told by the receptionist that was a minimum 6 points, then started whining how unfair it all was as she already had 10! Silly b
h. 
Now those kinds of people really DO need the book throwing at them.
h. Now those kinds of people really DO need the book throwing at them.
Edited by Centurion07 on Friday 16th October 15:51
btcc123 said:
Chill out,I am not a legal eagle and just a guess that assuming the OP did not work part time would have been pretty much on the money.
What I do not get with attending court with a speeding offence why are you allowed mitigation as you did not think about employment,family,dependants,others affected by disqualification before you started speeding.Are there any other motoring offences that you can give mitigation.Do the courts check on peoples mitigation as I would have thought most people would not be as truthful as they should be.
If by "on the money" you thought that the OP earns around £40k p.a. after tax then I agree that your guess would have been "on the money." What I do not get with attending court with a speeding offence why are you allowed mitigation as you did not think about employment,family,dependants,others affected by disqualification before you started speeding.Are there any other motoring offences that you can give mitigation.Do the courts check on peoples mitigation as I would have thought most people would not be as truthful as they should be.
Stupid question. Yes, all. Yes - via the police at the request of the CPS.
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