Petrol motorcycle sales banned from 2040
Discussion
Petrol motorcycle sales banned from 2040 & petrol moped sales from 2030.
It grinds my gears that PTWs that can achieve 130mpg+ are lumped in with gas-guzzling SUVs that get mpg in the 20s. I'm all for a move to electric motorcycles, not least because it'll hopefully reduce reliance on crap dealers, but why not have a phased implementation where the most polluting vehicles are targeted first & the least polluting last?
https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1cqt...
It grinds my gears that PTWs that can achieve 130mpg+ are lumped in with gas-guzzling SUVs that get mpg in the 20s. I'm all for a move to electric motorcycles, not least because it'll hopefully reduce reliance on crap dealers, but why not have a phased implementation where the most polluting vehicles are targeted first & the least polluting last?
https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1cqt...
EasternBlocGeek said:
Petrol motorcycle sales banned from 2040 & petrol moped sales from 2030.
It grinds my gears that PTWs that can achieve 130mpg+ are lumped in with gas-guzzling SUVs that get mpg in the 20s. I'm all for a move to electric motorcycles, not least because it'll hopefully reduce reliance on crap dealers, but why not have a phased implementation where the most polluting vehicles are targeted first & the least polluting last?
https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1cqt...
on the other hand a whole load of large bikes struggle to better the mpg of a good diesel which can carry 4+ people and luggage and have dirtier exhaust It grinds my gears that PTWs that can achieve 130mpg+ are lumped in with gas-guzzling SUVs that get mpg in the 20s. I'm all for a move to electric motorcycles, not least because it'll hopefully reduce reliance on crap dealers, but why not have a phased implementation where the most polluting vehicles are targeted first & the least polluting last?
https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1cqt...
podman said:
A lot of speculation as I read that article but I wouldnt be surprised if is 2040.
I read an article in the biking press not so long back that suggested that emissions wise, sports bike are no better than a 2.0 diesel car so we’ve had it good so far maybe..
Yes, superbikes have poor economy, but a lot of this is because of chasing big power outputs from small capacities combined with it never having been something that buyers are particularly concerned with.I read an article in the biking press not so long back that suggested that emissions wise, sports bike are no better than a 2.0 diesel car so we’ve had it good so far maybe..
I’m disappointed that the proposals aren’t around improving economy rather than just going for a ban.
OverSteery said:
on the other hand a whole load of large bikes struggle to better the mpg of a good diesel which can carry 4+ people and luggage and have dirtier exhaust
If you are going to compare real-world economy you should also use real-world use cases. Most diesels aren’t carrying four people and luggage most days.Ken_Code said:
If you are going to compare real-world economy you should also use real-world use cases. Most diesels aren’t carrying four people and luggage most days.
I could never get my motorbike to beat my diesel golf for mileage. So even with just me commuting, the fuel usage was exactly the same.I think the main story here is, as cars get phased out, motorbikes will HAVE to follow, as petrol will just get harder and harder to find. There will probably still be a 5yr-10yr period as the transition though.
For most of us it’s just not an issue. I will be 56 by 2040. Buy something I really want a few years before, and it should see me through. That’s of course if the manufacturers don’t wind back ICE well before the date like some of the car manufacturers are.
TBH even now I’m not bothered about having the newest tech, quickshifters and 10 stage traction control. Give me a Speed Twin 1200 now to sit next to my Ducati Scrambler and il be happy.
The youth today it seems don’t want to ride a bike. It’s mostly those in the cities on mopeds. And most of those are Uber drivers on L plates. They could switch to electric now.
If I lived in a warmer city there is no doubt I’d have one of the smaller Livewires.
TBH even now I’m not bothered about having the newest tech, quickshifters and 10 stage traction control. Give me a Speed Twin 1200 now to sit next to my Ducati Scrambler and il be happy.
The youth today it seems don’t want to ride a bike. It’s mostly those in the cities on mopeds. And most of those are Uber drivers on L plates. They could switch to electric now.
If I lived in a warmer city there is no doubt I’d have one of the smaller Livewires.
Bob_Defly said:
I could never get my motorbike to beat my diesel golf for mileage. So even with just me commuting, the fuel usage was exactly the same.
I think the main story here is, as cars get phased out, motorbikes will HAVE to follow, as petrol will just get harder and harder to find. There will probably still be a 5yr-10yr period as the transition though.
That’s possibly because your motorbike wasn’t a “sensible” choice designed with good fuel economy in mind.I think the main story here is, as cars get phased out, motorbikes will HAVE to follow, as petrol will just get harder and harder to find. There will probably still be a 5yr-10yr period as the transition though.
My big bike has awful fuel economy too but my scooter is around 100mpg.
If manufacturers want to start making bikes with far better economy they can make huge improvements.
Just to get it clear in my head, its a ban on new ICE bike sale from 2040 ...not a ban on riding one you already have ? riding the ICE bike you have for a few thousand miles a year will be no problem for many years after 2040, although im sure the price of fuel may go up a bit. Maybe when Porsche and all get this green petrol into mass production we can ride ICE bikes forever...at a price.
OverSteery said:
on the other hand a whole load of large bikes struggle to better the mpg of a good diesel which can carry 4+ people and luggage and have dirtier exhaust
We need to take a more holistic view of these things - once you take into account the less raw materials used to make bikes, less road space, less parking infrastructure, etc and not just the fuel consumption I can well see the average bike being a better choice for the environment than an average car. OverSteery said:
EasternBlocGeek said:
Petrol motorcycle sales banned from 2040 & petrol moped sales from 2030.
It grinds my gears that PTWs that can achieve 130mpg+ are lumped in with gas-guzzling SUVs that get mpg in the 20s. I'm all for a move to electric motorcycles, not least because it'll hopefully reduce reliance on crap dealers, but why not have a phased implementation where the most polluting vehicles are targeted first & the least polluting last?
https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1cqt...
on the other hand a whole load of large bikes struggle to better the mpg of a good diesel which can carry 4+ people and luggage and have dirtier exhaust It grinds my gears that PTWs that can achieve 130mpg+ are lumped in with gas-guzzling SUVs that get mpg in the 20s. I'm all for a move to electric motorcycles, not least because it'll hopefully reduce reliance on crap dealers, but why not have a phased implementation where the most polluting vehicles are targeted first & the least polluting last?
https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/1cqt...
I've had bikes that struggled to get 30mpg, pathetic really.
Some Ducatis can give quite good mpg if ridden smoothly.
Anything will be poor mpg if you're on the brakes a lot.
But most bikes do few miles so the embedded carbon of building them is significant.
This can be even worse for pushbikes.
Never mind what won't be available in 2040, I'm not seeing anything on sale right now which appeals more than a bike from 20 years ago.
Am I sounding like my Dad yet?
Anything will be poor mpg if you're on the brakes a lot.
But most bikes do few miles so the embedded carbon of building them is significant.
This can be even worse for pushbikes.
Never mind what won't be available in 2040, I'm not seeing anything on sale right now which appeals more than a bike from 20 years ago.
Am I sounding like my Dad yet?
Vision Zero means that bikes aren’t compatible with a world in which there are zero road casualties. This is an expedient way to eliminate the outliers in society that enjoy their machines. Electric two wheelers won’t pull the youngsters like the racing machines of old did and they’ll have mandatory limiters etc to take control away from their over enthusiastic wrists.
ChocolateFrog said:
I agree. Bike mpg is essentially crap, due largely to drag. Do manufacturers even bother to claim figures? Can't say I've noticed.
I've had bikes that struggled to get 30mpg, pathetic really.
I hadn’t realised bikes were so bad until I read that the new CBR600 has the best coefficient of drag at “0.55”. I think most cars are now under 0.3. Presumably the 0.55 is also without a rider.I've had bikes that struggled to get 30mpg, pathetic really.
I read an interesting interview with Guy Martin where he reckons bike development has been massively hampered by a lack of emissions restrictions.
He says that if you look at the car world, where you struggle to buy a big cc NA car now, it's all been driven by chasing emissions and if the same had applied to bikes we'd all be riding round on smaller (lighter) forced induction bikes. I hadn't thought of it before, but I agree with him.
The bike industry has been caught napping - again. Chasing big bhp to sell bikes and not seen the changing tide. People want economy, as well as fun. Driving styles have changed, you only have to look at the average speeds people drive on dual carriageways now to see that. People are going slower to save fuel. If bikes were now running the 150mpg they surely could be, how many of those people would be commuting by motorbike? I would!
But, electric isn't the way - in my opinion.
It's a pet rant of mine, but if they want to change the world they have to give people reasonable alternatives. At the moment people default to their 2 ton SUV as a way of transporting one person. Most hate driving and find it stressful and expensive. But, unless you live in a city center you have no choice but to drive. My wife recently tried to commute into Cambridge by train. We live within a 20 min walk of the station but the trains were so unreliable she had to give up and go back to driving. She loved going by train but the economics only just made sense, and add into the equation she has to keep a car 'in case' the trains aren't running or are delayed and it made no sense.
I firmly believe that synthetic fuel will be the short term solution. Longer term, I think those who have the powers have to pull their big boy pants on and invest in an infrastructure away from the roads that supports 21stC living.
He says that if you look at the car world, where you struggle to buy a big cc NA car now, it's all been driven by chasing emissions and if the same had applied to bikes we'd all be riding round on smaller (lighter) forced induction bikes. I hadn't thought of it before, but I agree with him.
The bike industry has been caught napping - again. Chasing big bhp to sell bikes and not seen the changing tide. People want economy, as well as fun. Driving styles have changed, you only have to look at the average speeds people drive on dual carriageways now to see that. People are going slower to save fuel. If bikes were now running the 150mpg they surely could be, how many of those people would be commuting by motorbike? I would!
But, electric isn't the way - in my opinion.
It's a pet rant of mine, but if they want to change the world they have to give people reasonable alternatives. At the moment people default to their 2 ton SUV as a way of transporting one person. Most hate driving and find it stressful and expensive. But, unless you live in a city center you have no choice but to drive. My wife recently tried to commute into Cambridge by train. We live within a 20 min walk of the station but the trains were so unreliable she had to give up and go back to driving. She loved going by train but the economics only just made sense, and add into the equation she has to keep a car 'in case' the trains aren't running or are delayed and it made no sense.
I firmly believe that synthetic fuel will be the short term solution. Longer term, I think those who have the powers have to pull their big boy pants on and invest in an infrastructure away from the roads that supports 21stC living.
Edited by srob on Tuesday 14th May 07:01
Skeptisk said:
ChocolateFrog said:
I agree. Bike mpg is essentially crap, due largely to drag. Do manufacturers even bother to claim figures? Can't say I've noticed.
I've had bikes that struggled to get 30mpg, pathetic really.
I hadn’t realised bikes were so bad until I read that the new CBR600 has the best coefficient of drag at “0.55”. I think most cars are now under 0.3. Presumably the 0.55 is also without a rider.I've had bikes that struggled to get 30mpg, pathetic really.
To make a bike (including rider) with a similar drag coefficient you'd need something like one of those Dutch enclosed things.
Fuel economy is crap because big bike engines tend to be designed for performance and they are much bigger and more powerful than they 'need' to be.
A Honda NC with half a Jazz engine will cruise along at around 80 mpg, but they don't seem to have had much impact on the market.
Edited by Donbot on Tuesday 14th May 07:21
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