Discussion
--- PISTONHEAS members run out of interesting threads
There was a time - not too long ago - when active readers like Madcop and myself would take time to respond to threads posted here from people who had been caught out somehow (not just by the boys and GIRLS in blue)and wnated some advice.
Ive stopped writting detailed responses.
Mad Cop (bless) still takes the time to write ina detailed and constructive way. I dont know how he manages to remain so patient with this growing , boring, and dam right idiotic group who post crap like
"I was doing 95 when I got done by the cops. Me and my family will not now support the cops in any way.!"
" I was tailgating a few feet away doing 80mph - I think Ill get done. The Cops have nowt better to do"
I could go on
Oh alright " Cops bad driving kills small child and old lady" They are all bad drivers routine!
I really feel like explainng all of these but frankly cant be arsed.
Instead Im going to stop reading this shitty section and concentrate ob the car forums where you at least seem to get a balanced discussion from people wit 2 brain cells
Understand the law - work within the law - then when you get caught it is YOUR fault not the officer who is enforcing.
A small percentage of cops do speeders. In the meantime officers like thoo ones who take time out to right here will continue to put people to court for robbery, theft and drugs.
Thanks for all your support - Yert (oh nearly named a few but Ill stop - you know who you are)
Lets hope you never have to call for help. Bet the need comes back then
Bye all
Hope Tonyrec and especially MC keep you informed - you dont deserve them
There was a time - not too long ago - when active readers like Madcop and myself would take time to respond to threads posted here from people who had been caught out somehow (not just by the boys and GIRLS in blue)and wnated some advice.
Ive stopped writting detailed responses.
Mad Cop (bless) still takes the time to write ina detailed and constructive way. I dont know how he manages to remain so patient with this growing , boring, and dam right idiotic group who post crap like
"I was doing 95 when I got done by the cops. Me and my family will not now support the cops in any way.!"
" I was tailgating a few feet away doing 80mph - I think Ill get done. The Cops have nowt better to do"
I could go on
Oh alright " Cops bad driving kills small child and old lady" They are all bad drivers routine!
I really feel like explainng all of these but frankly cant be arsed.
Instead Im going to stop reading this shitty section and concentrate ob the car forums where you at least seem to get a balanced discussion from people wit 2 brain cells
Understand the law - work within the law - then when you get caught it is YOUR fault not the officer who is enforcing.
A small percentage of cops do speeders. In the meantime officers like thoo ones who take time out to right here will continue to put people to court for robbery, theft and drugs.
Thanks for all your support - Yert (oh nearly named a few but Ill stop - you know who you are)
Lets hope you never have to call for help. Bet the need comes back then
Bye all
Hope Tonyrec and especially MC keep you informed - you dont deserve them
I don't think you should take comments like that quite so personally. Generally, comments are aimed at the system, and therefore the people at the top who set the policy, and not individual inforcers.
The system is spiralling in to ever increasing lunacy. Yesterday, outside our offices, the police had set up a camera van. There were three officers in the van plus two officers further up the street to stop cars plus a police motorbike rider. You could argue that 6 officers plus equipment is a valuable use of resources, especially in an area where speeding is rife and there are frequent serious accidents. But this wasn't one of those areas. This was on an inner London road, over a distance of 300 m between two traffic lights with a further two pelican crossings. Further more, for most of the time they were there the traffic was nose to tail in a jam. They may well have been able to stop unsafe, untaxed, uninsured cars but certainly you'd need a medal if you could even reach the legal speed limit yet alone exceed it!
I live in rural Kent, where this year my contribution to funding the county constabulary has increased 30%. Yet, at the same time the increases came through, the KCC removed our local policeman. We have an abnormal rate of crime in the local area yet have no regular effective patrols and none on foot.
So, whilst your contributions and MadCop's are greatly appreciated, as are the police performing their jobs to prevent crime and bring those responsible to justice, the policy setters could well do some inner soul searching and remove their heads from the bucket of sand that appears to come with the job.
MC (the other MC that is!)
>> Edited by MajorClanger on Thursday 5th June 15:12
The system is spiralling in to ever increasing lunacy. Yesterday, outside our offices, the police had set up a camera van. There were three officers in the van plus two officers further up the street to stop cars plus a police motorbike rider. You could argue that 6 officers plus equipment is a valuable use of resources, especially in an area where speeding is rife and there are frequent serious accidents. But this wasn't one of those areas. This was on an inner London road, over a distance of 300 m between two traffic lights with a further two pelican crossings. Further more, for most of the time they were there the traffic was nose to tail in a jam. They may well have been able to stop unsafe, untaxed, uninsured cars but certainly you'd need a medal if you could even reach the legal speed limit yet alone exceed it!
I live in rural Kent, where this year my contribution to funding the county constabulary has increased 30%. Yet, at the same time the increases came through, the KCC removed our local policeman. We have an abnormal rate of crime in the local area yet have no regular effective patrols and none on foot.
So, whilst your contributions and MadCop's are greatly appreciated, as are the police performing their jobs to prevent crime and bring those responsible to justice, the policy setters could well do some inner soul searching and remove their heads from the bucket of sand that appears to come with the job.
MC (the other MC that is!)
>> Edited by MajorClanger on Thursday 5th June 15:12
...and ofcourse, there are those that post crap like this just to wind people up.
....idiotic group who post crap like
"I was doing 95 when I got done by the cops. Me and my family will not now support the cops in any way.!"
" I was tailgating a few feet away doing 80mph - I think Ill get done. The Cops have nowt better to do"
MC
Yes, kinda' know what you are sayin' Gem.
It does get a bit repetitive sometimes, racin' on the highway etc, doin' 95 in the roadworks etc. What do they want, sympathy?
Thanks to MC/999 etc for stickin' with us i suppose for the times when we really need them.
Don't know why I'm writin' this, you won't be readin' it, 'cos you've gone back to the motorin' threads.
It does get a bit repetitive sometimes, racin' on the highway etc, doin' 95 in the roadworks etc. What do they want, sympathy?
Thanks to MC/999 etc for stickin' with us i suppose for the times when we really need them.
Don't know why I'm writin' this, you won't be readin' it, 'cos you've gone back to the motorin' threads.
You should do what I do then...
Don't respond to threads that you don't want to!
This is like people complaining about all the crap on TV when the answer is to switch the googlebox off!
Yes, we know there are some muppets on the board, and people like me who like playing devil's advocate (just to make it challenging), but if people stop replying to these, or just get pointed to the FAQ then they shouldn't be a problem.
>> Edited by m-five on Thursday 5th June 08:45
Don't respond to threads that you don't want to!
This is like people complaining about all the crap on TV when the answer is to switch the googlebox off!
Yes, we know there are some muppets on the board, and people like me who like playing devil's advocate (just to make it challenging), but if people stop replying to these, or just get pointed to the FAQ then they shouldn't be a problem.
>> Edited by m-five on Thursday 5th June 08:45
hmmm.. I wish you'd contacted one of us privately first, Gemini.
We're aware that things aren't all they could be. The ever increasing volume of traffic on the forums and the fact that with 2million (?) speeding tickets apparently now being dished out a year, it's inevitable that a lot of queries will be very much the same. I do sometimes wish people would peruse the archives before posting up some of these questions.
That said, I reckon people are more likely to learn from what you guys tell them and take it on board when it happens in an interactive exchange rather than reading what you told someone else in the archives.
You already know about the cruddy state of driving in the UK so the large number of posts admitting schoolboy errors can hardly come as a surprise to you.
Perhaps the forum should have been more rigorously moderated and the 'same ole' questions compiled into an FAQ with answers compiled from those posted by cops and legal types. The arguments are superfluous when what we need is a bunch of hard information readily available to people. I'll see if I can find time to dredge through and get some salient posts together.
Of course, if anyone fancies suggesting threads that these might be drawn from, it'd be a big help
We're aware that things aren't all they could be. The ever increasing volume of traffic on the forums and the fact that with 2million (?) speeding tickets apparently now being dished out a year, it's inevitable that a lot of queries will be very much the same. I do sometimes wish people would peruse the archives before posting up some of these questions.
That said, I reckon people are more likely to learn from what you guys tell them and take it on board when it happens in an interactive exchange rather than reading what you told someone else in the archives.
You already know about the cruddy state of driving in the UK so the large number of posts admitting schoolboy errors can hardly come as a surprise to you.
Perhaps the forum should have been more rigorously moderated and the 'same ole' questions compiled into an FAQ with answers compiled from those posted by cops and legal types. The arguments are superfluous when what we need is a bunch of hard information readily available to people. I'll see if I can find time to dredge through and get some salient posts together.
Of course, if anyone fancies suggesting threads that these might be drawn from, it'd be a big help
I believe that the vast majority of people on this forum do not condone dangerous driving, whether it is tailgating, racing on the public highway, and accept that everyone makes mistakes.
However the simple fact is that police forces have climbed into bed with the Safety Camera Partnerships and the indisciminate use of cameras is annoying a lot of people who are fed up with the lack of discretion. It is this that is annoying people and leading to the comments of "I won't help the police" etc.
According to the front page of the Daily Mail maybe this realisation is hitting home in Police HQs as the asst chief constable for Bristol and Avon is complaining about the location of camera vans in his area!
The problems with the police come down to numbers, there aren't enough, too much time is spent form filling etc. I attended a meeting last night concerning vandalism, is was agreed the biggest problem was lack of police presence. The Council had in the past investigated paying for a policeman to be on patrol in the town, only to discover that that would mean we would lose our already limited cover!
Unfortunately the policies of this country these days mean that the police officers on the ground are going to take more flak, when its not their responsibility.
What has to be remembered is that the vast majority of the members here, including the lurkers, support the police on the ground but rile against the system. However it is only on this type of forum that one can rant and get any sympathy.
The comments by serving officers, magistrates etc are welcomed by people here, and of course in many instances do not support offical policy. The criticism is not aimed at those on this board personally but at the higher levels of management.
However the simple fact is that police forces have climbed into bed with the Safety Camera Partnerships and the indisciminate use of cameras is annoying a lot of people who are fed up with the lack of discretion. It is this that is annoying people and leading to the comments of "I won't help the police" etc.
According to the front page of the Daily Mail maybe this realisation is hitting home in Police HQs as the asst chief constable for Bristol and Avon is complaining about the location of camera vans in his area!
The problems with the police come down to numbers, there aren't enough, too much time is spent form filling etc. I attended a meeting last night concerning vandalism, is was agreed the biggest problem was lack of police presence. The Council had in the past investigated paying for a policeman to be on patrol in the town, only to discover that that would mean we would lose our already limited cover!
Unfortunately the policies of this country these days mean that the police officers on the ground are going to take more flak, when its not their responsibility.
What has to be remembered is that the vast majority of the members here, including the lurkers, support the police on the ground but rile against the system. However it is only on this type of forum that one can rant and get any sympathy.
The comments by serving officers, magistrates etc are welcomed by people here, and of course in many instances do not support offical policy. The criticism is not aimed at those on this board personally but at the higher levels of management.
I feel an increasing tension within PH of late, dunno what it is but there is an air of 'fcuk you' that wasn't present before. Some posters see the BiB as a spokesperson for Plods policies and give em a bad time accordingly, this coupled with this new 'bad' attitude is probably whats getting Geminis back up.....is there a moderator for S,P&tL?
CarZee said:[/iPerhaps the forum should have been more rigorously moderated
NO!!!
Inconsitent and petty moderating killed HonestJohn stone dead.
Don't fall into that trap.
G. It's really not personal. The comments of the rozzers on this site are well considered and informative.
MC's posts have really helped to calm me down in the difficult position I'm in right now.
(Ok yes, it's my fault, I shouldn't do 87...)
For what it's worth (maybe nothing), I am pretty new to PH and very much value the fact that there is diversity of voice and attitude in these forums. I also think that it's excellent that we have serving police officers as members who are prepared to take the time to write considered, informative and insightful posts, without appearing particularly judgemental or authoritarian.
Given that it takes many different levels of opinion, intellect, passion, reasoning, patience, courtesy, etc etc, etc, to make the world go around, we will always experience viewpoints at the extremes of the spectrum (as well as all along the road between extremes). This will undoubtedly result in posts that are merely ill-informed and biased rantings, and downright wrong or illogical in many people's eyes (but clearly not in the eyes of the author). It's a shame gemini, that you feel you have had enough of this and will no longer contribute in the way you used to. I for one, and there will be many many others, will be worse off for it, as I very much value the input you and your fellow officers give to these forums.
Given that it takes many different levels of opinion, intellect, passion, reasoning, patience, courtesy, etc etc, etc, to make the world go around, we will always experience viewpoints at the extremes of the spectrum (as well as all along the road between extremes). This will undoubtedly result in posts that are merely ill-informed and biased rantings, and downright wrong or illogical in many people's eyes (but clearly not in the eyes of the author). It's a shame gemini, that you feel you have had enough of this and will no longer contribute in the way you used to. I for one, and there will be many many others, will be worse off for it, as I very much value the input you and your fellow officers give to these forums.
Here here. Agree wholeheartedly with gixxer. PH has changed quite an amount, even for the short time that I have been posting, and it seems that there certainly is an "atmosphere" which, I must say seems to be created by the new members, particularly trollers. Which is a shame. But this shouldn't make people like G feel that they can no longer stand to read/interact with people in this situation because of the trivial viewpoints and disrespectful nature of some of posters. People need to understand that they (BiB) are here purely to help, here of their own free will and for nothing else, venting your resentment/personal problems due to your own experiences doesnt help anyone. Sometimes I have a feeling that members of this part of PH in this "section" are way to quick to attack and generalise without knowing the full facts. Put it this way, the BiB on this forum may not know the full facts of each situation, but they can give us a very helpful, interesting and often legally correct view of things which is invaluable, not to mention their advice. I think it would be a crying shame to lose this.
Agree wholeheartdely with Gixxer and llamekuf. It would be a shame to lose someone who can raise the level of a forum from 'helpful rumour' to 'professional knowledge' - one of Pistonheads genuinely unique and differentiating features.
I think that more rigorous policing (!) of this forum would help enormously. I understand that people are unkeen on censorhip, but it seems the long term members are the ones getting irritated by an increase in 'aggresive' posting...so who cares about a bit of censorship?
Ive been a member of this site since before it WAS pistonheads, and Ive always been very happy with the level of moderation....rather lose a few people who dont like to be monitored than lots of valuable people like Gemini....
I think that more rigorous policing (!) of this forum would help enormously. I understand that people are unkeen on censorhip, but it seems the long term members are the ones getting irritated by an increase in 'aggresive' posting...so who cares about a bit of censorship?
Ive been a member of this site since before it WAS pistonheads, and Ive always been very happy with the level of moderation....rather lose a few people who dont like to be monitored than lots of valuable people like Gemini....
I amongst others mod S,P&tL. I thread would have to be going very pear shaped / off topic before I closed it. This is just the way I am. I to have seen a change in Pistonheads over time as it has grown and become more popular. This is only to be expected as PH now has a more diverse readership. Some people appear to taking things a tad too seriously though and need to take a step back. It is after all just a Forum. ( Sorry Ted ! ) Like thousands of other on the net covering all subjects. If you don’t like a post then don’t reply or… reply and put your point forward. Remember everyone is entitled to their ‘adult’ opinion. If you don’t like someone’s personal opinion then that’s life and it makes things more interesting. There should even be room for all the banal posts like the ‘What if’s’ etc because it all adds up to make a balanced forum. It’s great to have People like MC and Gemini as their expertise and insight really do add to Pistonheads. At the end of the day if a post is obviously stupid then would it not be better to just ignore it rather than close it ? Opps !! I’m off topic now !!!
Alas…; power to the righteous or those who know best, but who really knows those who find themselves charged with policing this area will always become targeted for criticism. For you saying “if you stick to the limit you will not get caught” is simply rubbish as it will never happen. This is simply a feature of the human race including righteous, which extends to the perceived risks involved, risks which if we are to move forward in any direction must take.
Does for example myself who sticks to limits mean that I will never get caught and also never become involved in an accident which incidentally is what this is all about. I think not and therefore this speeding policy is flawed from the off especially when you consider two thirds of accidents occur at below 30 mph and are outside the enforcement capabilities of these cameras which are targeting drivers at 48 mph whom are in the safest group.
A recent two year study participated by 8 police forces has been declared a success and will lead to the roll out of thousands more cameras, the report states safety has been improved immeasurably at cameras sites but does not reveal figures perhaps this is because these cameras are not as safe as they would have us believe and that is why the figures have been left out, in today press two cameras have been identified as unsafe and so forth comes the evidence that this speeding campaign of there is flawed and will ultimately become know as the policy that killed us.
The right speed will always be the appropriate speed and assuming that a set of speed limits 30-40-50-70 are the safest is madness.
Read TRL 421 which concludes that speed is a significant factor in accidents then read its research pages for the reasons which you will not find and simply because not there. If speed is not really the main protagonist then what is I leave it for you to decide…..££££££££££
Does for example myself who sticks to limits mean that I will never get caught and also never become involved in an accident which incidentally is what this is all about. I think not and therefore this speeding policy is flawed from the off especially when you consider two thirds of accidents occur at below 30 mph and are outside the enforcement capabilities of these cameras which are targeting drivers at 48 mph whom are in the safest group.
A recent two year study participated by 8 police forces has been declared a success and will lead to the roll out of thousands more cameras, the report states safety has been improved immeasurably at cameras sites but does not reveal figures perhaps this is because these cameras are not as safe as they would have us believe and that is why the figures have been left out, in today press two cameras have been identified as unsafe and so forth comes the evidence that this speeding campaign of there is flawed and will ultimately become know as the policy that killed us.
The right speed will always be the appropriate speed and assuming that a set of speed limits 30-40-50-70 are the safest is madness.
Read TRL 421 which concludes that speed is a significant factor in accidents then read its research pages for the reasons which you will not find and simply because not there. If speed is not really the main protagonist then what is I leave it for you to decide…..££££££££££
It's not the BiB thats annoying, its the system. A set of arbitary speed limits set 40 years ago that are now lowered and rigidly enforced when cars have gotten significantly safer. It does tend to make the blood boil somewhat. The police get it in the neck because they are the first line of defence but don't worry come election time displeasure will be felt in parliament.
Hadn't you noticed everyone in Britain is an expert on everything and will give you their opinion without being asked, police in this respect are no different to doctors,teachers, solicitors etc. no qualifications go a long way with a big mouth. Just sit back and have a laugh at us.
Hadn't you noticed everyone in Britain is an expert on everything and will give you their opinion without being asked, police in this respect are no different to doctors,teachers, solicitors etc. no qualifications go a long way with a big mouth. Just sit back and have a laugh at us.
Yes. The speed camera /scamera partnership strategy is working.
Its doing so much damage to police/public relations, that even respected posters such as MC, Geminii and Tonyrec (amongst others) feel the hostility and resentment( from some) over the ether. Im NOT happy that Geminii should feel he cant be here. :furious
Well done Mr goddam Bliar, youve set the public AGAINST its own world class police force.
Its doing so much damage to police/public relations, that even respected posters such as MC, Geminii and Tonyrec (amongst others) feel the hostility and resentment( from some) over the ether. Im NOT happy that Geminii should feel he cant be here. :furious
Well done Mr goddam Bliar, youve set the public AGAINST its own world class police force.
Had this argument with a police chap on here a few years ago, can't remember who but my stance was/is that if it's the system that’s failed, not the police force then why don’t the police do something about it? They are ideally positioned to influence change in attitude and law but they won't do it! From this I conclude they quietly support the constant persecution of drivers in favour of doing the more difficult tasks of arresting muggers, rapists and burglars. It’s easier, more profitable and creates statistics which make the force look good. For heavens sake, we all know the public are pissed of with the current state of policing in the UK and all police officers must also be aware of the animosity, so how about a some officers stop being so politically correct and actually do something about it?
I have little sympathy for police officers at the moment. If police don't like the flack now the public is turning against them then be active for change. Heavens, even my 83 yr old father-in-law has nothing but criticism for the police, and I use that as an example of how the generation that grew up trusting the BiB have also turned! Just look at the news every day - Lincoln police prosecute ambulance driver for speeding, police arrest Tony Martin for shooting serial burglar, police can’t prosecute 9 yr old girls caught stoning cars on M25 – the list is endless but setting up speed traps is a very easy and lucrative “no brainer”. Sorry to tell you all but the lunatics have taken over the asylum and as the police form a very important part of the justice system in this country I suggest they campaign for change fast, right now, top-down and bottom-up. Rich..
I have little sympathy for police officers at the moment. If police don't like the flack now the public is turning against them then be active for change. Heavens, even my 83 yr old father-in-law has nothing but criticism for the police, and I use that as an example of how the generation that grew up trusting the BiB have also turned! Just look at the news every day - Lincoln police prosecute ambulance driver for speeding, police arrest Tony Martin for shooting serial burglar, police can’t prosecute 9 yr old girls caught stoning cars on M25 – the list is endless but setting up speed traps is a very easy and lucrative “no brainer”. Sorry to tell you all but the lunatics have taken over the asylum and as the police form a very important part of the justice system in this country I suggest they campaign for change fast, right now, top-down and bottom-up.
Rich.. RichB,
A little harsh maybe? Yeah, I have conflicting views with the likes of Madcop and 999 occassionally, but I do honestly believe that they are certainly NOT the exception with their opinions and working for the Police - my brother & his wife were Plod, my brothers friend, sisters friend and several other members of the family have been serving Plod at some time (some still are), so they are certainly no some strange breed of man that has been put on this earth to nick drivers all the time.... they are real people who are trying to do what is best....
Is it the Police that is failing - no. Its simply down to the changes in our society and the inability of sucessive governments to adapt and change the way the Police / Law / Justice system operates within this.
I do not honestly believe that the police support the extensive use of speed cameras and targeting of motorists. Believe me, they really would like to catch more murderers and rapists if they could. But when their controllers and governors are the current in-power elected government, they are bound by political decisions and targets..... If they dont do what they are told, they are replaced with someone that can.... so the likes of the Chief Cons for the areas treads a fine political line between his responsibilities for enforcement of law and his staff as well as what the government current thinks is the 'problem'.
And finally one more point - the Police are there to uphold the law (to the letter). For the likes of Tony Martin - he broke the law! No if's no buts - he killed someone! He was arrested by the police for that - it doesnt matter how justified it might have been, the police MUST uphold the law - which is what they did. They then complete their reports and handover to the CPS. They then make the decision to prosecute (he broke the law remember) so is it the CPS's fault? No not really because he wasnt guilty at that point. Currently in this country 'justified murder' is not on the statute books - its a law to take a life (including your own by the way) and therefore the police must uphold the law in all circumstances.... The police gone bad? No not at all - far from it in fact....
Cheers,
Paul
P.S. I am sure that this comment has been made before - but you wouldnt believe the number of policemen that have points. The law affects them too - they are not 'immune' to it remember.
A little harsh maybe? Yeah, I have conflicting views with the likes of Madcop and 999 occassionally, but I do honestly believe that they are certainly NOT the exception with their opinions and working for the Police - my brother & his wife were Plod, my brothers friend, sisters friend and several other members of the family have been serving Plod at some time (some still are), so they are certainly no some strange breed of man that has been put on this earth to nick drivers all the time.... they are real people who are trying to do what is best....
Is it the Police that is failing - no. Its simply down to the changes in our society and the inability of sucessive governments to adapt and change the way the Police / Law / Justice system operates within this.
I do not honestly believe that the police support the extensive use of speed cameras and targeting of motorists. Believe me, they really would like to catch more murderers and rapists if they could. But when their controllers and governors are the current in-power elected government, they are bound by political decisions and targets..... If they dont do what they are told, they are replaced with someone that can.... so the likes of the Chief Cons for the areas treads a fine political line between his responsibilities for enforcement of law and his staff as well as what the government current thinks is the 'problem'.
And finally one more point - the Police are there to uphold the law (to the letter). For the likes of Tony Martin - he broke the law! No if's no buts - he killed someone! He was arrested by the police for that - it doesnt matter how justified it might have been, the police MUST uphold the law - which is what they did. They then complete their reports and handover to the CPS. They then make the decision to prosecute (he broke the law remember) so is it the CPS's fault? No not really because he wasnt guilty at that point. Currently in this country 'justified murder' is not on the statute books - its a law to take a life (including your own by the way) and therefore the police must uphold the law in all circumstances.... The police gone bad? No not at all - far from it in fact....
Cheers,
Paul
P.S. I am sure that this comment has been made before - but you wouldnt believe the number of policemen that have points. The law affects them too - they are not 'immune' to it remember.
Possibly… I understand the process is police/CPS/law/government etc. But I feel very strongly that if a law is a bad law - and there are some terrible laws in force at the moment - then the police DO have a part to play in changing it. It is NOT good enough for them to sit back and say "sorry chum but it's the law". If I don't like something at work I tell the MD and try to get a change, if I don’t like the way the country's run I use my vote or get involved in politics and organisations like joining the ABD, I write to MP and local councillors etc. Sorry but I hear all too often comments from police like “well 'on the quiet' I agree a 30mph limit along this motorway standard dual carriageway is a bit harsh but that’s the law" - So why won't they do something about it then?
pbrettle said: RichB, A little harsh maybe?
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