Forced into amber light infringement...help please!
Discussion
I was stopped yesterday afternoon by a local bobby in an unmarked Focus for going through an amber light, and given & producer & an NIP.
Thing is, a few hundred yards before I'd watched in the mirror as he followed me out of a side road by pulling out dangerously, right in front of another car, causing it to brake heavily. I kept an eye on him in my rearview up the hill towards the queue at the traffic lights, and he was close enough to my rear bumper that I couldn't see his headlights. The lights changed to amber as I got to them, and I chose to carry on (although I could have stopped), because he was so close & I wanted to avoid an accident.
Next thing is, he's put on the siren & his flashing headlights (although I only noticed these once we'd pulled over, that's how I know he was so close!).
He reckons he'd been following me for a while (I'd spotted him but stupidly hadn't clocked that he was an unmarked car) because of my exceeding the speed limit (I wasn't, and he had no equipment or video in the car to show that I was), following a motorbike too closely (again, I wasn't IMO), and generally driving too aggressively (not true either - I was just making progress like normal, definitely not hooning). I think he spotted me in a slightly flash car, driving quicker than most people (but within speed limits, my limits, and the car's limits) & was waiting to push me into something he could pull me over for. Sadly, he succeeded.
I made notes of the conversation we had immediately afterwards - eg he admitted he'd had to signal to the guy he'd pulled out on, using some device in the back of his car which I couldn't see, to show he was police, which if it was necessary indicates to me he knew it was a dodgy move. I couldn't see the signal of course, so it just looked to me like bad driving, and that he was best avoided. He also asked me if I knew what an amber light meant (I did!), which shows it wasn't a red light I went through. With hindsight, I think he might've let me off with a warning, but I felt compelled to mention that his bad driving was the cause of my transgression, which of course didn't go down well.
I haven't gone to the local nick yet with my licence & insurance. I have a clean licence although I have had speeding points in the past which I haven't contested. If I thought I'd genuinely done something wrong, I'd put my hands up & live with the 3 points now - but in this case I feel I've been stitched up and want to fight it.
Anyone able to provide help/advice please?! Or is it just a case of getting a good lawyer & having my day in court?
Cheers
Andy
Thing is, a few hundred yards before I'd watched in the mirror as he followed me out of a side road by pulling out dangerously, right in front of another car, causing it to brake heavily. I kept an eye on him in my rearview up the hill towards the queue at the traffic lights, and he was close enough to my rear bumper that I couldn't see his headlights. The lights changed to amber as I got to them, and I chose to carry on (although I could have stopped), because he was so close & I wanted to avoid an accident.
Next thing is, he's put on the siren & his flashing headlights (although I only noticed these once we'd pulled over, that's how I know he was so close!).
He reckons he'd been following me for a while (I'd spotted him but stupidly hadn't clocked that he was an unmarked car) because of my exceeding the speed limit (I wasn't, and he had no equipment or video in the car to show that I was), following a motorbike too closely (again, I wasn't IMO), and generally driving too aggressively (not true either - I was just making progress like normal, definitely not hooning). I think he spotted me in a slightly flash car, driving quicker than most people (but within speed limits, my limits, and the car's limits) & was waiting to push me into something he could pull me over for. Sadly, he succeeded.
I made notes of the conversation we had immediately afterwards - eg he admitted he'd had to signal to the guy he'd pulled out on, using some device in the back of his car which I couldn't see, to show he was police, which if it was necessary indicates to me he knew it was a dodgy move. I couldn't see the signal of course, so it just looked to me like bad driving, and that he was best avoided. He also asked me if I knew what an amber light meant (I did!), which shows it wasn't a red light I went through. With hindsight, I think he might've let me off with a warning, but I felt compelled to mention that his bad driving was the cause of my transgression, which of course didn't go down well.
I haven't gone to the local nick yet with my licence & insurance. I have a clean licence although I have had speeding points in the past which I haven't contested. If I thought I'd genuinely done something wrong, I'd put my hands up & live with the 3 points now - but in this case I feel I've been stitched up and want to fight it.
Anyone able to provide help/advice please?! Or is it just a case of getting a good lawyer & having my day in court?
Cheers
Andy
colonel_smith said:
How is going through on amber an offence??? I always thought it was stop if safe to do so as the lights were turning red..If it is stop whatever the situation why do we have amber??
oh dear. This isn't up for negotiation bud; amber means stop.
Of course, or chappie feels he has been influenced by the car behind him, into such an offence. The problem is that if someone comes up close behind you, then the response should be to slow down, to create braking space in front. Even if there is nothing behind, then one is supposed to ease off when approaching traffic lights, as they might change to amber, then red. If this BiB has seen what he considers to be inappropriate driving, and has caught up, then seen this infringement, then that's probably been the final straw, perhaps? From his point of view only, I'm not taking sides here.
Edited by RichBurley on Friday 2nd February 13:03
anniesdad said:
RichBurley said:
oh dear. This isn't up for negotiation bud; amber means stop.
Eh?
Sarcasm perhaps?
Nope, I was just surprised that someone might not know what amber means, when the traffic light sequences and meanings represent such an important part of the driving test!
Bing o said:
[quote=RichBurley]This isn't up for negotiation bud; amber means stop.{/quote]
...unless it is unsafe to do so...
The OP said it was safe, he just didn't fancy it.
Looks like you failed the attitude test...
...unless it is unsafe to do so...
The OP said it was safe, he just didn't fancy it.
Looks like you failed the attitude test...
Nope, I think you've taken my post out of context. I don't refer to people as "bud" if I'm trying to be nasty!
AMBER means 'Stop' at the stopline. You may go on only if the AMBER appears after you have crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident Quoted Highway Code - www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs01.htm
I never said that you can't go through if it is dangerous to stop. I said Amber means "stop". So thank you for misquoting me, chaps!
I never said that you can't go through if it is dangerous to stop. I said Amber means "stop". So thank you for misquoting me, chaps!
GreenV8S said:
RichBurley said:
oh dear. This isn't up for negotiation bud; amber means stop.
When did that law change?
highway code page:
www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs01.htm
Bing o said:
RichBurley said:
This isn't up for negotiation bud; amber means stop.
...unless it is unsafe to do so...
The OP said it was safe, he just didn't fancy it.
Looks like you failed the attitude test...
I didn't say it was safe - I said I could've stopped, but I judged that the car behind might not have stopped in time.
The conversation was actually quite genial, we had a laugh, I was contrite (at first) with a view to making it go away. But when he said I'd driven dangerously, when it was actually safer to keep going, well, I couldn't let that pass.
andywaterfall said:
I didn't say it was safe - I said I could've stopped, but I judged that the car behind might not have stopped in time.
Seems a very reasonable thing to claim IMHO. So it becomes your opinion against his - not sure how that works then.
If you reasonably though an accident might have occurred by stopping then you have complied with the highway code.
Edited by FunkyGibbon on Friday 2nd February 13:13
TSRGD said:
(e) the amber signal shall, when shown alone, convey the same prohibition as the red signal, except that, as respects any vehicle which is so close to the stop line that it cannot safely be stopped without proceeding beyond the stop line, it shall convey the same indication as the green signal or green arrow signal which was shown immediately before it;
I'd suggest your defence was that in your judgement you could not have safely stopped without causing an accident. This could be backed up by in car video.
FunkyGibbon said:
andywaterfall said:
I didn't say it was safe - I said I could've stopped, but I judged that the car behind might not have stopped in time.
Seems a very reasonable thing to claim IMHO. So it becomes your opinion against his - not sure how that works then.
If you reasonably though an accident might have occurred by stopping then you have complied with the highway code.
Cheers FG, that's my take on it, but I don't know what to do next. Do I do something direct with the police officer or police station now (eg write a letter - I'm guessing no), or wait for him to (potentially) lie in court & say that his move was perfectly safe, he was miles behind me, and I went through on red? How does that work if it's his word against mine?
The reason people are "ganging up on you" is because this post
Comes across as sarcastic and obnoxious and is also incorrect.
If amber just meant stop it would have no point as it would be no different to red, as has been said it means stop if safe to do so which is not the same thing. As what is safe is a matter of individual interpretation, it is up for negotiation.
RichBurley said:
oh dear. This isn't up for negotiation bud; amber means stop.
Edited by RichBurley on Friday 2nd February 13:03
Comes across as sarcastic and obnoxious and is also incorrect.
If amber just meant stop it would have no point as it would be no different to red, as has been said it means stop if safe to do so which is not the same thing. As what is safe is a matter of individual interpretation, it is up for negotiation.
7db said:
TSRGD said:
(e) the amber signal shall, when shown alone, convey the same prohibition as the red signal, except that, as respects any vehicle which is so close to the stop line that it cannot safely be stopped without proceeding beyond the stop line, it shall convey the same indication as the green signal or green arrow signal which was shown immediately before it;
I'd suggest your defence was that in your judgement you could not have safely stopped without causing an accident. This could be backed up by in car video.
No video in his car apparently, more's the pity.
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