Rear-facing child car seats

[katinahat]

I hope this is the right place for this- was hoping to get some advice from BiB or those with road safety experience.

I've been looking at buying a rear-facing Group 1 car seat for my son, who's just coming up to eighteen months. There's absolutely no way that one will fit in my car, where he's in a Recaro Young Sport. It should, however, fit in the back of my husband's car (2002 Vauxhall Astra, probably going to be swapped for a Signum in the next year or two.) I'm by no means paranoid about road safety, but like any parent I'd like to make sure that my son is as safe as he can possibly be.

Here's my question: are rear-facing car seats significantly safer? Does it make that much difference in an accident?

Thanks in advance,

Katherine

[SWH]

We looked into this for SWH Junior a while back and decided rear facing was the way to go; he's not going to mind as he's always faced that way and I'm happily convinced rear facing is safer, although avoiding the incident is clearly preferable of course!

Tricky to get one in this country, so eventually got a Maxi-Cosi Mobi from Sweden, loads of other choices too of course:
(Plenty of info on the main site about rear facing seats)

http://www.carseat.se/store.html

From SWH Junior's point of view (he's 1yr next week) it's bigger, more comfortable (4hr trip with one break easily) and when awake he can see more out of the back and side. He's got a mirror to see what's what up front, and so I can see if he's eating his socks/asleep in the rear view mirror.

From my point of view it's a massive seat and in either of the estates we have (Saab 9-5 and Volvo 850) the passenger seat needs to be pretty much right forwards, this is fine as we both still fit in (and I'm 6' tall); although the Volvo one is fully forward and feels a bit close to the dash. The base of the seat fits onto the front cushion bolster of the rear seat and initially appears to be way too far forwards, then there's a big arm at the back of the seat that pushes onto the floor, and two big straps that attach to the hooks/loops at the rear of the front seat runners (which the Saab has and for the Volvo I had to fit - they came with the seat), the front of the seat is held by the seat belt. Once tightened up on the straps you can move the car with it, so it's not going anywhere.

It may fit in the Alfa (1999 GTV), front this time as the airbag switches off, although the sloped floor probably rules that out.... the MGB is doubtful however, although it does offset the Swedish motor collection.

Hopefully helpful - if you can, I'd really suggest trying one, from memory there were a couple of shops in the south that do them, and I seem to recall Mrs SWH mentioning Essex Police have one or two you can try as well, hopefully someone one here may know more about that.

[timskipper]

SWH said:

...so I can see if he's eating his socks/asleep in the rear view mirror.

Nothing to add except a LOL as my boy does that too!

[Zod]

This rear-faing seats for children in groups I, II and II idea is absurd. Yes, they are clearly safer in theory (although not when used in the front), but they are utterly impractical in 99% of cars, as the seat in front will have to be moved right to the front of its runners.

[Amused2death]

Zod said:

This rear-faing seats for children in groups I, II and II idea is absurd. Yes, they are clearly safer in theory (although not when used in the front), but they are utterly impractical in 99% of cars, as the seat in front will have to be moved right to the front of its runners.

Nothing is more important than a parent's child.......

(Unless you are a petrolhead )

[SWH]

Utterpiffle said:

Our son outgrew the rear facing seat at about 15 months old (one of those travel system jobbies), so we went for a forward facing seat as it will now last him for at least the next five years. Surely if you buy a rear facing seat, you'll be needing to buy another forward facing one within a year or so?

That's what I thought, but these go up to ~4yrs (or whatever weight it says).

[katinahat]

Zod said:

This rear-faing seats for children in groups I, II and II idea is absurd. Yes, they are clearly safer in theory (although not when used in the front), but they are utterly impractical in 99% of cars, as the seat in front will have to be moved right to the front of its runners.

My grandfather was killed and my aunt seriously injured by a drunk driver in an accident where the circumstances were beyond their control. My aunt was a child at the time and is now disabled for the rest of her life. You'll understand why I can live with a little inconvenience. (I am by no means paranoid, but a rear-facing seat seems to me to be a reasonable step to take.)

SWH, thank you so much! There's a stockist near my parents so will go and see which fits in the Astra best- will probably go with a combination so he'll fit in it for longer. He's 91st centile for height, so we'll see how he fits...

Thanks again.

Katherine

[Bluebarge]

SWH said:

Utterpiffle said:

Our son outgrew the rear facing seat at about 15 months old (one of those travel system jobbies), so we went for a forward facing seat as it will now last him for at least the next five years. Surely if you buy a rear facing seat, you'll be needing to buy another forward facing one within a year or so?

That's what I thought, but these go up to ~4yrs (or whatever weight it says).

Well the seat might do, but unless the child has no legs he will quickly protest at having them squashed up against the backrest of the rear seat; plus staring at grey upholstery will make him bored v.,v. quickly.

[Zod]

katinahat said:

Zod said:

This rear-faing seats for children in groups I, II and II idea is absurd. Yes, they are clearly safer in theory (although not when used in the front), but they are utterly impractical in 99% of cars, as the seat in front will have to be moved right to the front of its runners.

My grandfather was killed and my aunt seriously injured by a drunk driver in an accident where the circumstances were beyond their control. My aunt was a child at the time and is now disabled for the rest of her life. You'll understand why I can live with a little inconvenience. (I am by no means paranoid, but a rear-facing seat seems to me to be a reasonable step to take.)

SWH, thank you so much! There's a stockist near my parents so will go and see which fits in the Astra best- will probably go with a combination so he'll fit in it for longer. He's 91st centile for height, so we'll see how he fits...

Thanks again.

Katherine

and how do you know that a rear-facing seat would have made a shred of difference? What about the increased danger to your child of having somebody crash into you from behind when you are stationary? When will you feel that the time has come to expose your child to the terrifying dangers of a front-facing seat?

[SWH]

Bluebarge said:

SWH said:

Utterpiffle said:

Our son outgrew the rear facing seat at about 15 months old (one of those travel system jobbies), so we went for a forward facing seat as it will now last him for at least the next five years. Surely if you buy a rear facing seat, you'll be needing to buy another forward facing one within a year or so?

That's what I thought, but these go up to ~4yrs (or whatever weight it says).

Well the seat might do, but unless the child has no legs he will quickly protest at having them squashed up against the backrest of the rear seat; plus staring at grey upholstery will make him bored v.,v. quickly.

Yep, agree... that was my initial thought. But there's plenty of leg room, the seat is pretty much in line with the front of the back seat - hence filling the car and shoving the front seat right forwards, or a fair way forwards anyway. It sits fairly high too so he can see out fine and talk to the dog in the boot/throw toys over the top etc.

[Zod]

My four year old son is 115 cm. He would not accept this.

Funny that not a single photo on the carseat.se site shows you how far forward the front seats have to be in order to fit a rear-facing seat for a four year old. For most cars, this is an over-the-top idea.

I'm oot.

[Jonleeper]

Zod said:

katinahat said:

Zod said:

This rear-faing seats for children in groups I, II and II idea is absurd. Yes, they are clearly safer in theory (although not when used in the front), but they are utterly impractical in 99% of cars, as the seat in front will have to be moved right to the front of its runners.

My grandfather was killed and my aunt seriously injured by a drunk driver in an accident where the circumstances were beyond their control. My aunt was a child at the time and is now disabled for the rest of her life. You'll understand why I can live with a little inconvenience. (I am by no means paranoid, but a rear-facing seat seems to me to be a reasonable step to take.)

SWH, thank you so much! There's a stockist near my parents so will go and see which fits in the Astra best- will probably go with a combination so he'll fit in it for longer. He's 91st centile for height, so we'll see how he fits...

Thanks again.

Katherine

and how do you know that a rear-facing seat would have made a shred of difference? What about the increased danger to your child of having somebody crash into you from behind when you are stationary? When will you feel that the time has come to expose your child to the terrifying dangers of a front-facing seat?

I've always wondered about this, I have seen (and read a good deal of) a lot of the literature whilst thinking about seats for our two. All of the different manufacturers made a lot of noise about their particular seats and how they would fair against the accident they proposed, eg forward facing is better in a rear shunt, rearward facing is better in a head on collision. What was never made clear was the proportion of accidents and their direction in order to allow for a realistic comparison to be made. In the end I went for a rear facing to begin with followed by front facing from whenever they outgrew their original seats.

[katinahat]

Zod said:

katinahat said:

Zod said:

This rear-faing seats for children in groups I, II and II idea is absurd. Yes, they are clearly safer in theory (although not when used in the front), but they are utterly impractical in 99% of cars, as the seat in front will have to be moved right to the front of its runners.

My grandfather was killed and my aunt seriously injured by a drunk driver in an accident where the circumstances were beyond their control. My aunt was a child at the time and is now disabled for the rest of her life. You'll understand why I can live with a little inconvenience. (I am by no means paranoid, but a rear-facing seat seems to me to be a reasonable step to take.)

SWH, thank you so much! There's a stockist near my parents so will go and see which fits in the Astra best- will probably go with a combination so he'll fit in it for longer. He's 91st centile for height, so we'll see how he fits...

Thanks again.

Katherine

and how do you know that a rear-facing seat would have made a shred of difference? What about the increased danger to your child of having somebody crash into you from behind when you are stationary? When will you feel that the time has come to expose your child to the terrifying dangers of a front-facing seat?

I doubt it would have made a difference. It's a risk I'd like to minimise, though.

BTW, did you read the OP or not? DS is in a front facing seat in my car as a rear-facing one wouldn't fit. He even sits in the front sometimes!

The boredom thing? As I said, we're weird attachment-parenting types, so one of us will always sit in the back, and you know, talk to him or play with him. (Do parents do that these days?) I assume he'll still be able to see out of the window, too. We don't need a functional front seat for precisely this reason.

Zod, there's a massive difference (2.5 years and 25cm in height) between your son and mine: mine will accept it, because he's a toddler and he won't have a choice.

Thanks to those who have given useful advice. :-)

Katherine



My question

[Mr Will]

Jonleeper said:

Zod said:

katinahat said:

Zod said:

This rear-faing seats for children in groups I, II and II idea is absurd. Yes, they are clearly safer in theory (although not when used in the front), but they are utterly impractical in 99% of cars, as the seat in front will have to be moved right to the front of its runners.

My grandfather was killed and my aunt seriously injured by a drunk driver in an accident where the circumstances were beyond their control. My aunt was a child at the time and is now disabled for the rest of her life. You'll understand why I can live with a little inconvenience. (I am by no means paranoid, but a rear-facing seat seems to me to be a reasonable step to take.)

SWH, thank you so much! There's a stockist near my parents so will go and see which fits in the Astra best- will probably go with a combination so he'll fit in it for longer. He's 91st centile for height, so we'll see how he fits...

Thanks again.

Katherine

and how do you know that a rear-facing seat would have made a shred of difference? What about the increased danger to your child of having somebody crash into you from behind when you are stationary? When will you feel that the time has come to expose your child to the terrifying dangers of a front-facing seat?

I've always wondered about this, I have seen (and read a good deal of) a lot of the literature whilst thinking about seats for our two. All of the different manufacturers made a lot of noise about their particular seats and how they would fair against the accident they proposed, eg forward facing is better in a rear shunt, rearward facing is better in a head on collision. What was never made clear was the proportion of accidents and their direction in order to allow for a realistic comparison to be made. In the end I went for a rear facing to begin with followed by front facing from whenever they outgrew their original seats.

Front end collisions are more common than rear end ones and more likely to be severe. Rear facing seats are proven to be safer overall, and are common in other parts of the world.

The downside is the size, which makes them impractical in small cars, but if you have a large enough car then why not?

These threads always amaze me, why are people so opposed to something just because it is different?

[Jonleeper]

Mr Will said:

Jonleeper said:

Zod said:

katinahat said:

Zod said:

This rear-faing seats for children in groups I, II and II idea is absurd. Yes, they are clearly safer in theory (although not when used in the front), but they are utterly impractical in 99% of cars, as the seat in front will have to be moved right to the front of its runners.

My grandfather was killed and my aunt seriously injured by a drunk driver in an accident where the circumstances were beyond their control. My aunt was a child at the time and is now disabled for the rest of her life. You'll understand why I can live with a little inconvenience. (I am by no means paranoid, but a rear-facing seat seems to me to be a reasonable step to take.)

SWH, thank you so much! There's a stockist near my parents so will go and see which fits in the Astra best- will probably go with a combination so he'll fit in it for longer. He's 91st centile for height, so we'll see how he fits...

Thanks again.

Katherine

and how do you know that a rear-facing seat would have made a shred of difference? What about the increased danger to your child of having somebody crash into you from behind when you are stationary? When will you feel that the time has come to expose your child to the terrifying dangers of a front-facing seat?

I've always wondered about this, I have seen (and read a good deal of) a lot of the literature whilst thinking about seats for our two. All of the different manufacturers made a lot of noise about their particular seats and how they would fair against the accident they proposed, eg forward facing is better in a rear shunt, rearward facing is better in a head on collision. What was never made clear was the proportion of accidents and their direction in order to allow for a realistic comparison to be made. In the end I went for a rear facing to begin with followed by front facing from whenever they outgrew their original seats.

Front end collisions are more common than rear end ones and more likely to be severe. Rear facing seats are proven to be safer overall, and are common in other parts of the world.

The downside is the size, which makes them impractical in small cars, but if you have a large enough car then why not?

These threads always amaze me, why are people so opposed to something just because it is different?

Not opposed at all, and mine are a long way from being in rear facing seats now, the eldest is nearly out of her booster seat and the youngest just about onto one. It was mearly a question as when i was reaserarching, some 9 years ago, the information was not clear.

[Mr Will]

Jonleeper said:

Not opposed at all, and mine are a long way from being in rear facing seats now, the eldest is nearly out of her booster seat and the youngest just about onto one. It was mearly a question as when i was reaserarching, some 9 years ago, the information was not clear.

Sorry, that bit wasn't aimed specifically at you, more at the thread in general!

[Zod]

Mr Will said:

Jonleeper said:

Zod said:

katinahat said:

Zod said:

This rear-faing seats for children in groups I, II and II idea is absurd. Yes, they are clearly safer in theory (although not when used in the front), but they are utterly impractical in 99% of cars, as the seat in front will have to be moved right to the front of its runners.

My grandfather was killed and my aunt seriously injured by a drunk driver in an accident where the circumstances were beyond their control. My aunt was a child at the time and is now disabled for the rest of her life. You'll understand why I can live with a little inconvenience. (I am by no means paranoid, but a rear-facing seat seems to me to be a reasonable step to take.)

SWH, thank you so much! There's a stockist near my parents so will go and see which fits in the Astra best- will probably go with a combination so he'll fit in it for longer. He's 91st centile for height, so we'll see how he fits...

Thanks again.

Katherine

and how do you know that a rear-facing seat would have made a shred of difference? What about the increased danger to your child of having somebody crash into you from behind when you are stationary? When will you feel that the time has come to expose your child to the terrifying dangers of a front-facing seat?

I've always wondered about this, I have seen (and read a good deal of) a lot of the literature whilst thinking about seats for our two. All of the different manufacturers made a lot of noise about their particular seats and how they would fair against the accident they proposed, eg forward facing is better in a rear shunt, rearward facing is better in a head on collision. What was never made clear was the proportion of accidents and their direction in order to allow for a realistic comparison to be made. In the end I went for a rear facing to begin with followed by front facing from whenever they outgrew their original seats.

Front end collisions are more common than rear end ones and more likely to be severe. Rear facing seats are proven to be safer overall, and are common in other parts of the world.

The downside is the size, which makes them impractical in small cars, but if you have a large enough car then why not?

These threads always amaze me, why are people so opposed to something just because it is different?

They are impractical in all but the largest cars. In my M5, a rear-facing seat for a baby barely fits behind me - my seat touches the back of the child seat. It is not a small car by any means. I would have to drive squashed up against the wheel to fit a larger rear-facing seat behind me.

I'm generally the first to criticise those who claim that parents are paranoid, but this is a step too far in that it is utterly impractical for most cars.

I'd love to know, by the way, in which parts of the world rear-facing seats for toddlers are common. It's not France, Germany, the US or AUstralia for a start.

[Engineer1]

Weigh up the improved safety of having rear facing with the inconvenience and potentially compromised visibility, control and driver comfort. If the rear facing seat makes the driver too uncomfortable then it may impede your driving.

[Jonleeper]

Mr Will said:

Jonleeper said:

Not opposed at all, and mine are a long way from being in rear facing seats now, the eldest is nearly out of her booster seat and the youngest just about onto one. It was mearly a question as when i was reaserarching, some 9 years ago, the information was not clear.

Sorry, that bit wasn't aimed specifically at you, more at the thread in general!

Don't worry no offence taken. It always surprises me how much things move on and either people become morbidly concerned with the impact of the past, some of my collegues reaction to going out in my "toy" which does not have ABS, TC, seven thousand airbags is boardering on hysterical "it cannot be safe", "I'm not travelling in that it dosent have air bags", etc or distrust the new technology as "it wasn't like that in my day".

[katinahat]

Zod said:

I'd love to know, by the way, in which parts of the world rear-facing seats for toddlers are common. It's not France, Germany, the US or AUstralia for a start.

They're a legal requirement in Sweden until the age of four.