Will it never end? Satnav clampdown

[Peter Ward]

"They came for the.... but I didn't say anything..."

So now, although "Drivers using satellite navigation systems incorrectly are not a significant contributor to casualty statistics" (ie. we've never seen any accident caused by them), we are faced with a clampdown. Northampton police have already removed all theirs from their cars. A 21-year old law will be used as the excuse to target drivers with satnavs on their windscreens. The whole "swept area" of the windscreen must be clear in order to comply. I wonder why tax disk holders are exempt? Perhaps they're not. Of course, the justification for all this is the danger to... wait for it.... children.

Why not just treat drivers as adults who will not do stupid things like set up their satnav where it blocks their view of the road? I'm sure this "advisory approach" will turn nasty as soon as they find they have another means to issue the FPNs. It's something that cameras could catch as well, especially those currently monitoring buslanes and box junctions, where the cash goes to the council.

Company Car Driver said:

Warning on sat-nav systems stuck to your windscreen
04 October 2007

Vehicles with aftermarket satellite navigation systems fitted to their windscreens may contravene laws designed to ensure drivers have a clear field of vision.

One police force has already instructed its staff to remove all such systems from its vehicles.

The concerns stem from what interpretation to place on a 21-year-old law - The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Act 1986 – which states that vehicles must provide a clear view of the road ahead.

Ray Adkins, head of transport at Northamptonshire Police, explained that while the issue was still being investigated, the force had taken the precautionary decision to remove objects such as sat-nav systems.

“We have said that these must not be fitted in any of our vehicles,” he explained.

“The legislation says the swept area of the windscreen must be kept clear.”

Mr Adkins advised companies concerned about the legality of sat-nav systems and any other potential obstructing items fitted to the screens of their vehicles to carry out a risk assessment for each vehicle.

The consequences, he pointed out, could be very serious.

“If a child steps out from behind a parked car and the driver’s view is obstructed by the system or any other item, the driver may not see the child as quickly, may brake later and the injury to the child may be worse.”

Chief Superintendent John Millar, of Northants Police, said that while his force had removed their sat-nav systems, they would take an ‘advisory approach’ with members of the public.

“Drivers using satellite navigation systems incorrectly are not a significant contributor to casualty statistics,” he said.

“But drivers should always make sure they put the satellite navigation systems in positions that do not impair their ability to drive or obstruct their view.”

His view was echoed by senior solicitor and specialist road traffic and regulatory lawyer Philip Somarakis, who said: “While the regulations are clear that it is the responsibility of the user to ensure that there is a full, clear view of the road ahead, what we are saying is that motorists should take a commonsense view of the regulations.

“If motorists are sensible about where they place their sat-nav in the screen, they should not encounter problems.”

The new Highway Code, which was published last week, also contains a reference to new technology: “There is a danger of driver distraction being caused by in-vehicle systems such as satellite navigation systems,” it warns.

Edited by Peter Ward on Friday 5th October 14:48

[Deva Link]

To be fair, you do see quite a number of them stuck right in the middle of the windscreen. That *cannot* be a good idea. It's especially noticeable at night when you can see the unit's screen lit up.

I noticed Toyota have done a Yaris that has a TomTom Go port - very neat idea that I wish other would adopt. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/09/11/tomtom_toy...

[wolf1]

Now I may be wrong but I was informed by a fella who fits sat-nav kits and reversing cameras etc. He has to ensure they are positioned so that they do not protrude past the highest point of the dashboard.

[Munter]

Deva Link said:

To be fair, you do see quite a number of them stuck right in the middle of the windscreen. That *cannot* be a good idea. It's especially noticeable at night when you can see the unit's screen lit up.

I thought that. Then I sat in my car and looked where they were putting them. Just under the rearview mirror. Where in the Vectra it's blocking my view of part of the sky.... Not terribly important to see that piece of the sky. However the wire dangling down the middle of the screen would piss me off. At night though it has to be a big distraction there.

[bluepolarbear]

MOT failure for leaving the bracket in place.

[Munter]

bluepolarbear said:

MOT failure for leaving the bracket in place.

Really! (memo to Munter. Remove sat nav bracket for MOT...) cheers!

Edited by Munter on Friday 5th October 15:08

[Deva Link]

Munter said:

Just under the rearview mirror. Where in the Vectra it's blocking my view of part of the sky.

You must be extremely small, then, or drive while lying on the floor.

[pmanson]

Munter said:

bluepolarbear said:

MOT failure for leaving the bracket in place.

Really! (memo to Munter. Remove sat nav bracket for MOT...) cheers!

Edited by Munter on Friday 5th October 15:08

Eh? My 5 series recently based with my PDA bracket still attached the windscreen.

It's placed in the middle of the screen and with the PDA attached (horizontally) it doesn't stick up any higher than the dash pod on my 5 series.

[Munter]

Deva Link said:

Munter said:

Just under the rearview mirror. Where in the Vectra it's blocking my view of part of the sky.

You must be extremely small, then, or drive while lying on the floor.

Nope. A shade under 6ft and not known for my backwards baseball cap, gangsta driving position. The cars just got a football pitch worth of glass!

P.s. I have mine down as low as possible on the right of the instrument pod....

[Raify]

bluepolarbear said:

MOT failure for leaving the bracket in place.

A real pedant can make almost anything an MOT failure.

Check out this windscreen, which was an MOT failure:




And this one, which a week later was not:

[Deva Link]

Munter said:

Deva Link said:

Munter said:

Just under the rearview mirror. Where in the Vectra it's blocking my view of part of the sky.

You must be extremely small, then, or drive while lying on the floor.

Nope. A shade under 6ft and not known for my backwards baseball cap, gangsta driving position. The cars just got a football pitch worth of glass!

I'm still struggling to imagine how you would be looking at the sky, though, but I'll take your word for it.

The pictures above are perhaps the other extreme, but I would say are more typical than your example.

[Timberwolf]

I always thought the default mounting choice with satnav units was a bit brain-dead, putting a large, bulky object with lots of distracting motion right into your line of sight.

I tend to put mine down on the dashboard where it can be covered as part of a "sweep" of the instruments - I don't usually need to look at the screen unless the thing says, "bear left" or "bear right", which I have discovered means in satnav-speak, "I have absolutely no clue how to give a meaningful description of the road layout ahead, so instead I'm going to try and confuse you by telling you something random that will probably turn out to be a bad idea."

I'm surprised with the proliferation of aftermarket in-car technology that manufacturers haven't come up with some kind of sensible bracket or mounting point standard yet.

[RichBurley]

Raify said:

bluepolarbear said:

MOT failure for leaving the bracket in place.

A real pedant can make almost anything an MOT failure.

Check out this windscreen, which was an MOT failure:




And this one, which a week later was not:

Erm, they're the same image - they are both called screen.jpg, and they are identical

Edited by RichBurley on Friday 5th October 15:38

[Dwight VanDriver]

Whilst it makes common sense to have the device in a position that vision ahead is not impaired the Con and use Reg is somewhat ambiguous:

Motor Vehicle (Con and Use) Regs 1986

View to the front

30. - (1) A motor vehicle shall be
so designed and
constructed
that the driver has
at all times
a full view of the road and traffic ahead of the motor vehicle.

(3) All glass
or other transparent material fitted to a motor vehicle
shall be maintained in such condition
that IT does not obscure the vision of the driver while the vehicle is being driven on a road.

Nick Freeman would argue at (1) the vehicle complied when it left the factory floor and does not say anything about additions.

At (3) It is the glass that has to be maintained. If it encompassed the Sat Nav then strictly under that sub sec Excise and internal mirror stuck to screen fall foul.

So one has to go to Reg 100 and consider - parts and accessories in such condition as likely to cause danger.

dvd

[oldsoak]

RichBurley said:

Raify said:

bluepolarbear said:

MOT failure for leaving the bracket in place.

A real pedant can make almost anything an MOT failure.

Check out this windscreen, which was an MOT failure:




And this one, which a week later was not:

Erm, they're the same image - they are both called screen.jpg, and they are identical

Edited by RichBurley on Friday 5th October 15:38

Actually looks like THREE separate images surrealistically overlaid onto each other.
Kinda funky but hardly evidence of an MOT failure...

[GKP]

My rear view mirror is mounted so as to obstruct the swept area of the 'screen. Oh well.

[Chrisgr31]

Surely its better to have the Sat Nav on the windscreen where it can be seen easily?

Otherwise we'll have people runnig children over whilst they are looking at their Sat Nav!

[Raify]

RichBurley said:

Erm, they're the same image - they are both called screen.jpg, and they are identical

I didn't need to take a second picture, as the offending sticker that "ingresses into the swept area by more than 40mm" is hidden by the rear view mirror.

[Mattt]

Deva Link said:

To be fair, you do see quite a number of them stuck right in the middle of the windscreen. That *cannot* be a good idea. It's especially noticeable at night when you can see the unit's screen lit up.

I noticed Toyota have done a Yaris that has a TomTom Go port - very neat idea that I wish other would adopt. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/09/11/tomtom_toy...

Excuse me, didn't we start off with inbuilt SatNav systems, for them to then go portable, now some genius has 'invented' an inbuilt system?

[Deva Link]

Mattt said:

Deva Link said:

To be fair, you do see quite a number of them stuck right in the middle of the windscreen. That *cannot* be a good idea. It's especially noticeable at night when you can see the unit's screen lit up.

I noticed Toyota have done a Yaris that has a TomTom Go port - very neat idea that I wish other would adopt. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/09/11/tomtom_toy...

Excuse me, didn't we start off with inbuilt SatNav systems, for them to then go portable, now some genius has 'invented' an inbuilt system?

It's a Circle of Life thing.

Edited by Deva Link on Friday 5th October 16:14