Plebgate - An interesting new twist

[FurtiveFreddy]

I hope you lot on here caught the Channel 4 Dispatches prog just on.

If not, I recommend you tune into C4+1 in a bit...

[aw51 121565]

Gene Vincent said:

Plus, the manner in which rape was dealt with in the 70s, notably the startling manner of one officer called McIntyre in an infamous fly on the wall documentary...

Want more?

On Plebgate, yes please .

[Gene Vincent]

Derek, it pre-dates Op. Countryman, the GM police were fitting up people left right and centre right back to the 60s, perhaps even the 50s.

[Derek Smith]

Rovinghawk said:

CCTV in cell blocks as an example?

That's absolute rubbish. The vast majority of officers who spent any time in the cell block welcomed them, wanted them. I would assume that all those officers who had been complained about regarding their conduct in cell blocks were in favour. All those who spent hour after hour taking complaints from briefs about how their client was treated welcomed them. I can say that with some emphasis. The complaint still came, but in lower numbers, and the details were more iffy. Video recording of interviews was attempted to be blocked by lawyers, one of the grounds being that it might confuse the jury, the offender's conduct would prejudice the court.

[Derek Smith]

aw51 121565 said:

Gene Vincent said:

Plus, the manner in which rape was dealt with in the 70s, notably the startling manner of one officer called McIntyre in an infamous fly on the wall documentary...

Want more?

On Plebgate, yes please .

Not corrupt behaviour, just inept. The chap was either an idiot or was an idiot playing up to the cameras. It also wasn't the norm in any force I worked in. Also the conduct of this officer were ridiculed by the police officers I was with at the time.

[XCP]

Rovinghawk said:

CCTV in cell blocks as an example?
Insisting that officers wear visible numbers?

RH

I was a custody officer before CCTV was introduced, and afterwards. It was wholeheartedly welcomed by all, and indeed provided good evidence when I was kicked in the testicles by a detainee. Not a good example.

Insisting on visible numbers - not an issue. I know of no opposition to this.

[Gene Vincent]

aw51 121565 said:

Gene Vincent said:

Plus, the manner in which rape was dealt with in the 70s, notably the startling manner of one officer called McIntyre in an infamous fly on the wall documentary...

Want more?

On Plebgate, yes please .

Not sure I know what you mean by that, but in case you missed it, XCP (in this thread no less!) asked for matters that had previously been opposed to be outlined, I and RH duly did just that.

If I have not caught the gist of your remark, please expand for me, so I can answer you directly.

[XCP]

Gene Vincent said:

Not sure I know what you mean by that, but in case you missed it, XCP (in this thread no less!) asked for matters that had previously been opposed to be outlined, I and RH duly did just that.

If I have not caught the gist of your remark, please expand for me, so I can answer you directly.

I asked you to provide examples of improvements in policing that had been opposed by 'the whole force' as you put it.
None have been provided as yet.

[IroningMan]

Elroy Blue said:

In the interests of balance, will Hyphen-Howe now remove the gagging order on the two Officers who were actually present. Will they be able to give their version.

Hope so. Hope they haven't fabricated anything that appears in that log, too.

Elroy Blue said:

Will we see an arrest for the leaking of Government CCTV tapes. I know some on here would welcome that considering their outrage and condemnation around leaking things to the press.

Doubtful. As I understand this evening's reporting they were released officially by the Cabinet Office?

Elroy Blue said:

Will Andrew Mitchell release a full and unedited transcript of his meeting with the Fed. I mean, he's got nothing to hide has he.

Be nice, but it may not be in his gift.

[Gene Vincent]

XCP said:

Gene Vincent said:

Not sure I know what you mean by that, but in case you missed it, XCP (in this thread no less!) asked for matters that had previously been opposed to be outlined, I and RH duly did just that.

If I have not caught the gist of your remark, please expand for me, so I can answer you directly.

I asked you to provide examples of improvements in policing that had been opposed by 'the whole force' as you put it.
None have been provided as yet.

I actually appreciate the irony of that.

It is perhaps a better pointer to just how disingenuous this matter has been in the past and still is.

Prior to any introduction to any form of curtailment there are rumblings and murmurs of discontent, then when finally against this discontent new strictures come into place you won't find an officer who was against it.

[rewc]

Elroy Blue said:

In the interests of balance, will Hyphen-Howe now remove the gagging order on the two Officers who were actually present. Will they be able to give their version.

Was the 'leaked' account from the Officer's notebook that appeared in the Telegraph a fabrication or was it from one of the two Officers actually present?

[XCP]

FurtiveFreddy said:

I hope you lot on here caught the Channel 4 Dispatches prog just on.

If not, I recommend you tune into C4+1 in a bit...

I did.
It certainly muddied the waters a bit more.
Is it being claimed that the PC who allegedly sent the email to his MP is the one who has been arrested??
It also raised the question of how C4 got the CCTV from Downing St and the Foreign Office...

[rudecherub]

Just watching something else, so not watching C4

Someone fill me in on Plebgategate.

Because I'm of the opinion no one should swear at the Police.

Also that goes double for a person in a position of responsibility.

Double that again for a Minister in HMG

So Pleb was never a four letter word - as it were. fk was, so did Mitchell swear at the Police?

If so his resignation was appropriate, if late.

[Gene Vincent]

Going from bad too worse.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20776469

There has been a suspicion that in some part the Police will attempt to capitalise on sympathies, trying to drive home how great the Police are, even exploiting the incident involving the two officers that died in a grenade attack around that time.

Positive publicity in hyper-drive mode... if true, troubles are ahead.

[FurtiveFreddy]

rudecherub said:

Just watching something else, so not watching C4

Someone fill me in on Plebgategate.

Because I'm of the opinion no one should swear at the Police.

Also that goes double for a person in a position of responsibility.

Double that again for a Minister in HMG

So Pleb was never a four letter word - as it were. fk was, so did Mitchell swear at the Police?

If so his resignation was appropriate, if late.

You may want to take a look. It could answer some of your questions...

[eldar]

Gene Vincent said:

It took huge and endemic corruption and fitting up on an epic scale that forced PACE into being.

True, the Constable Savage sketch, was based on truth.

PACE appeared, and was enforced. I have a little card which gets me into my local custody suites, any time, and lets me poke around, talk in private to detainees, look at custody records and make sure no piss taking is going on. If it is I can phone the chief constable, and if necessary the home secretary.

You could do that, if you were inclined, as could just about anyone. As a member of the public. Makes it hard for the police to be corrupt with nosy fkers like me turning up unannounced at random times.

[Sparta VAG]

Rovinghawk said:

It's called the IPCC.

The BiB here have regularly assured us that it is truly independent.

RH

The IPCC is not a go-to place for whistleblowers, especially where politicians are concerned, not least since the IPCC does not regulate their activities.

The wrongdoings and lies of most politicians and public figures are exposed through leaks, anonymous sources (who are protected) and whistleblowers. There must be at least some kind of a case to be made to allow police officers to do the same thing without fear of being prosecuted surely?

[IroningMan]

XCP said:

FurtiveFreddy said:

I hope you lot on here caught the Channel 4 Dispatches prog just on.

If not, I recommend you tune into C4+1 in a bit...

I did.
It certainly muddied the waters a bit more.
Is it being claimed that the PC who allegedly sent the email to his MP is the one who has been arrested??
It also raised the question of how C4 got the CCTV from Downing St and the Foreign Office...

The footage was 'provided and verified' by the Cabinet Office.

The whole business is smellier than yesterday's socks - and there appears to be a bit of a nasty niff from the sainted Police Federation.

Is the 'log' given to the Telegraph and cited so widely by the rest of the media and the Police Federation actually a complete fabrication and not a police document at all?

[Elroy Blue]

Gene Vincent said:

trying to drive home how great the Police are, even exploiting the incident involving the two officers that died in a grenade attack around that time.

You are normally on my ignore list. But that comment proves what a completely ignorant, obnoxious individual you are. Its so fking offensive that it is surely only something a cowardly imbecile would post from the anonymity of a keyboard.

Go visit the police station in Hyde and make that comment. You are beneath contempt

[XCP]

Gene Vincent said:

I actually appreciate the irony of that.

It is perhaps a better pointer to just how disingenuous this matter has been in the past and still is.

Prior to any introduction to any form of curtailment there are rumblings and murmurs of discontent, then when finally against this discontent new strictures come into place you won't find an officer who was against it.

So what improvements are you referring to?
I joined in 1980.
To make it easy, start from there if you like. At the moment you are merely making sweeping generalisations.

I can think of several improvements that some officers were sceptical about. I wouldn't go so far as to claim the whole force were opposed though. Let's see if your list is the same as mine.