Discrimination during maternity leave
Discussion
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hstewie said:
hstewie said:daemon said:
Probably. But likely only to be her department. Depends on the size of the company i guess.
Spoke to my wife there whos a senior contact centre manager, and deals with this stuff with her HR people all the time, but yes, she said it would be a requirement that she was informed of any possible opportunities.
I guess I seem like I'm just being pedantic but that's what I'm getting at - is it "possible opportunities", in which case who decides if it's possible, or is it any opportunities in which case would you expect to be disturbed whilst on maternity leave every time any kind of opportunity comes up?Spoke to my wife there whos a senior contact centre manager, and deals with this stuff with her HR people all the time, but yes, she said it would be a requirement that she was informed of any possible opportunities.
Could be wrong though. Wife said she thought it was relevant jobs - same department, same office, whatever.
daemon said:
I would have thought, for example, you would be kind of safe if you had an operations manager off on maternity, and a job came up as a maintenance fitter, not to have to inform her.
Could be wrong though. Wife said she thought it was relevant jobs - same department, same office, whatever.
This gets a bit more interesting, it would be a job which is an improvement i.e. a promotion. If there was a redundancy situation, then any other role which might be suitable should be considered.Could be wrong though. Wife said she thought it was relevant jobs - same department, same office, whatever.
PurpleMoonlight said:
daemon said:
You cant "just" invite people to apply, you must give everyone a fair opportunity.
I am not aware of any law requiring this. Please elaborate.justanother5tar said:
Have you ever thought that maybe they wanted to know if/when she was coming back because they wanted to offer her the promotion?
Sounds very much to me like she's miffed at the company and is now seeking to get a payout. Just my view.
Because that would be breaking all sorts of equal opportunities laws by giving her a promotion without advertising and selecting the best candidate for the job?Sounds very much to me like she's miffed at the company and is now seeking to get a payout. Just my view.
Jasandjules said:
This gets a bit more interesting, it would be a job which is an improvement i.e. a promotion. If there was a redundancy situation, then any other role which might be suitable should be considered.
So in a global company, where you have a member of staff off on maternity, you are obligated to interrupt that maternity leave to inform them of any opportunity, regardless of role or location, which is an improvement, or they can sue you?daemon said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
daemon said:
You cant "just" invite people to apply, you must give everyone a fair opportunity.
I am not aware of any law requiring this. Please elaborate.daemon said:
Really? Hardly difficult to even deduce what you might fall foul of by not giving everyone equal opportunities for staff recruitment for a specifc job role?
Where is the law that requires an employer to treat all staff equally?Discrimination is different to equal opportunities.
Should a cleaner have the opportunity to apply for a chief executive position?
I'm a little bit disappointed by those who have laid into the OP, but that is the nature of this forum, I suppose. Out of seven pages there have perhaps been only a dozen helpful and constructive posts!
One question, for the several posters who mentioned that the staff who haven't gone on maternity leave, who get burdened with extra work. What jobs have you worked at where this occurs? I've only worked as a mechanic and my wife is a teacher, in each case where maternity and paternity took place, it didn't leave others with more work to do.
The workshops I worked at would just book an appropriate level of work, same as if someone is ill/on holiday and when my wife went on maternity they employed a temporary replacement for the period of time she was off.
One question, for the several posters who mentioned that the staff who haven't gone on maternity leave, who get burdened with extra work. What jobs have you worked at where this occurs? I've only worked as a mechanic and my wife is a teacher, in each case where maternity and paternity took place, it didn't leave others with more work to do.
The workshops I worked at would just book an appropriate level of work, same as if someone is ill/on holiday and when my wife went on maternity they employed a temporary replacement for the period of time she was off.
PurpleMoonlight said:
daemon said:
Really? Hardly difficult to even deduce what you might fall foul of by not giving everyone equal opportunities for staff recruitment for a specifc job role?
Where is the law that requires an employer to treat all staff equally?Discrimination is different to equal opportunities.
Should a cleaner have the opportunity to apply for a chief executive position?
And yes - a cleaner should have the opportunity to apply for a chief executive position, however, unless the meet all the pre-requisites in the job advert, they're likely to get sifted out of the process before interview.
justanother5tar said:
daemon said:
Because that would be breaking all sorts of equal opportunities laws by giving her a promotion without advertising and selecting the best candidate for the job?
Fair enough, I'm no employment lawyer, just a thought.(un)fortunately, i've needed to know it for previous jobs roles i've had. Also my wife has to know it because of her job role.
Saying your not an employment lawyer would be no defence for not knowing, should any employee ever have such a grievance against you
SpeedMattersNot said:
I'm a little bit disappointed by those who have laid into the OP, but that is the nature of this forum, I suppose. Out of seven pages there have perhaps been only a dozen helpful and constructive posts!
One question, for the several posters who mentioned that the staff who haven't gone on maternity leave, who get burdened with extra work. What jobs have you worked at where this occurs? I've only worked as a mechanic and my wife is a teacher, in each case where maternity and paternity took place, it didn't leave others with more work to do.
The workshops I worked at would just book an appropriate level of work, same as if someone is ill/on holiday and when my wife went on maternity they employed a temporary replacement for the period of time she was off.
It depends on the size of the department and the "homogeneity" of the work. For example in a Finance team of 8, there maybe be 1 in Payroll, 2 in Sales Ledger, 2 in Purchase ledger and 3 in Accounting. Depending on who leaves either the work would be shared out amongst the remaining staff OR we would get a temp in. if a temp comes in they would need to be trained up which will take a good few weeks. Either way, it's more work, at least for a short time, and more cost as well.One question, for the several posters who mentioned that the staff who haven't gone on maternity leave, who get burdened with extra work. What jobs have you worked at where this occurs? I've only worked as a mechanic and my wife is a teacher, in each case where maternity and paternity took place, it didn't leave others with more work to do.
The workshops I worked at would just book an appropriate level of work, same as if someone is ill/on holiday and when my wife went on maternity they employed a temporary replacement for the period of time she was off.
daemon said:
Its in equal opportunities law and in any sort of HR guidance. Look up any reasonably sized company and they'll have an equal opportunities for employment policy.
And yes - a cleaner should have the opportunity to apply for a chief executive position, however, unless the meet all the pre-requisites in the job advert, they're likely to get sifted out of the process before interview.
I believe you are incorrect.And yes - a cleaner should have the opportunity to apply for a chief executive position, however, unless the meet all the pre-requisites in the job advert, they're likely to get sifted out of the process before interview.
The Equal Opportunities legislation essentially concerns discrimination on the basis of gender, race and disability. I am not aware of any provision to force employers to open up employment applications to those staff they simply consider unqualified for the position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_emplo...
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: So in a global company, where you have a member of staff off on maternity, you are obligated to interrupt that maternity leave to inform them of any opportunity, regardless of role or location, which is an improvement, or they can sue you?
In effect yes and there is case law where this was the finding made...... It was discrimination.If they were physically at work they would have the opportunity to apply.
PurpleMoonlight said:
daemon said:
Its in equal opportunities law and in any sort of HR guidance. Look up any reasonably sized company and they'll have an equal opportunities for employment policy.
And yes - a cleaner should have the opportunity to apply for a chief executive position, however, unless the meet all the pre-requisites in the job advert, they're likely to get sifted out of the process before interview.
I believe you are incorrect.And yes - a cleaner should have the opportunity to apply for a chief executive position, however, unless the meet all the pre-requisites in the job advert, they're likely to get sifted out of the process before interview.
The Equal Opportunities legislation essentially concerns discrimination on the basis of gender, race and disability. I am not aware of any provision to force employers to open up employment applications to those staff they simply consider unqualified for the position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_emplo...
You cant just tap someone on the shoulder and promote them.
You have to give everyone a fair opportunity to apply for the job.
Now, if they apply - thinking again of your cleaner - if they dont meet the pre-requisites you simply paper sift them out.
From Equality Human Rights website -
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/private-and-pub...
"You must offer opportunities for promotion, transfer or other career development without unlawful discrimination. This includes development opportunities that could lead to permanent promotion – for example, ‘acting up’ on temporary promotion, deputising or secondment."
Edited by daemon on Saturday 18th July 19:28
Edited by daemon on Saturday 18th July 19:28
Actus Reus said:
We're debating it - I think she feels she can't go back to the same company, so it looks like she'll resign now, no matter what. We had been shooting for a part time return to work, but that's pretty well dead and buried. If there's a case against these guys I daresay she'll pursue it - as I said earlier they have been sued 3 times in recent months for sex discrimination and lost each time so seems like they have form for it.
We'll see though - need to sleep on it I think.
Not surprised by the PH responses, though they seem to have doubled my wife's resolve to prosecute this if she can.
Can't go back! Why? If she wasn't going to return then why not resign once the pregnancy term was to the point where she needed to leave work? I'm sorry but fair enough take maternity leave etc as is your wife's right but also do as you agreed at the beginning of the leave period and actually return to work. Your posts at the moment just smack of compo seeking.We'll see though - need to sleep on it I think.
Not surprised by the PH responses, though they seem to have doubled my wife's resolve to prosecute this if she can.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: So, devil's advocate, when companies have "boardroom coups" or when various C levels are wheeled out and the replacement was clearly known before the fact, where are the jobs advertised?
I think company directors are a different thing all together.You can be a company director without being an employee, and we're talking here about employee rights.
wolf1 said:
Can't go back! Why? If she wasn't going to return then why not resign once the pregnancy term was to the point where she needed to leave work? I'm sorry but fair enough take maternity leave etc as is your wife's right but also do as you agreed at the beginning of the leave period and actually return to work. Your posts at the moment just smack of compo seeking.
She never made any agreement about returning - nobody does (or doesn't have to anyway). She'll hand her notice in, if she chooses to, and serve her notice like anybody else. As to compo seeking - would you, honestly, not do the same? Really, genuinely, you'd say 'no, the law is wrong - my woman is a wench and should be treated as such - keep your money, sir, and I will discipline my woman once I get he home'.
Actus Reus said:
She never made any agreement about returning - nobody does (or doesn't have to anyway). She'll hand her notice in, if she chooses to, and serve her notice like anybody else.
As to compo seeking - would you, honestly, not do the same? Really, genuinely, you'd say 'no, the law is wrong - my woman is a wench and should be treated as such - keep your money, sir, and I will discipline my woman once I get he home'.
You said though that "she feels she cant go back now", imlpying its because of the promotion situation, whereas other posts seem to imply she may not want to go back anyway?As to compo seeking - would you, honestly, not do the same? Really, genuinely, you'd say 'no, the law is wrong - my woman is a wench and should be treated as such - keep your money, sir, and I will discipline my woman once I get he home'.
One is more suggestive of compensation than the other.
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