Another Caveat Emptor Thread - with a slight twist

[POORCARDEALER]

chriswg said:

janesmith1950 said:

Has he got any money and or will he comply with judgment? Hollow victories, wins without rewards.

He had a brand new Evoque sitting on the driveway and at least £17k in his bank account that I paid him so I would think he can afford to pay.

I'm seriosuly considering the complete gearbox replacement via the Bristol garage mentioned earlier. £2.5k for a more reliable (post 2012) refurbished box is quite appealing and probably cheaper than just replacing the mechatronic unit or PCB.

What would you be willing to accept off him to settle this and avoid court?

[chriswg]

POORCARDEALER said:

What would you be willing to accept off him to settle this and avoid court?

Depends on how much hassle I'd been through up to that point.

But I think I would lick my wounds and walk away if he were to offer to pay half of the repair costs i.e. £1,250.

I would still feel very hard done by, but I could do without the stress if possible.

[TooMany2cvs]

nikaiyo2 said:

andymc said:

its shameful that a car of this value needs the box replacing so soon

Err its an Audi S5

Quite. It's a six year old car that's just been bought for 40% of the new base price.

[POORCARDEALER]

chriswg said:

POORCARDEALER said:

What would you be willing to accept off him to settle this and avoid court?

Depends on how much hassle I'd been through up to that point.

But I think I would lick my wounds and walk away if he were to offer to pay half of the repair costs i.e. £1,250.

I would still feel very hard done by, but I could do without the stress if possible.

I would put that in writing to him recorded delivery if you have not already.

[Vaud]

chriswg said:

Depends on how much hassle I'd been through up to that point.

But I think I would lick my wounds and walk away if he were to offer to pay half of the repair costs i.e. £1,250.

I would still feel very hard done by, but I could do without the stress if possible.

On the box of that year could have gone anytime - it is quite a common issue (I think on the S4 and S5) - so if you can mentally write it down to maintenance costs.... You need a bork factor budget on a used 6 year old car anyway, especially a higher performance one.

[anonymous-user]

POORCARDEALER said:

I would put that in writing to him recorded delivery if you have not already.

I'd email and send normal post. Mark both prominently "without prejudice" and put a reasonable time limit on the decision, maybe 7 days, to respond, otherwise proceedings will be issued without any further correspondence.

[anonymous-user]

The burden for Fradulent misrepresentation may be higher than for negligent, but the effective remedey would be similar under the 1967 Misrep Act. I dont have the act to hand, but the remedy for Innocent Misrep would also be damages or unwinding of the contract.

So SCC for Negligent and/or Innocent Misrep might well be the best route.

Being able to get an Audi headed paper confirmation that the codes recorded would defo give the loss of power & dash warnings would certainly support negligent, if not also fradulent misrep.

If it's anythting like what happened when the box on my D2 S8 started failing, then it is impossible to ignore - the power cut was not like putting it in neutral, it was a violent power cut that felt like heavy braking

[chriswg]

Wow, first solicitor quoting £400+VAT to send a letter then total legal costs for a court case of £10k - £15k!

[andymc]

TooMany2cvs said:

nikaiyo2 said:

andymc said:

its shameful that a car of this value needs the box replacing so soon

Err its an Audi S5

Quite. It's a six year old car that's just been bought for 40% of the new base price.

its only done 56k though

[CYMR0]

That's a bit high but your loss is, realistically, the cost of a refurbed gearbox. You thought you were getting a six-year-old box in good working order that was attached to a car.

That's undoubtedly a small claim, so the legal costs wouldn't be recoverable.

At £200/hour, writing the letter (with an hour's appointment to take instructions) is an hour's work on drafting. After that, it's not hard for them to spend three full days' prep and two days' advocacy for a trial. Boom - £10k.

[TooMany2cvs]

andymc said:

TooMany2cvs said:

nikaiyo2 said:

andymc said:

its shameful that a car of this value needs the box replacing so soon

Err its an Audi S5

Quite. It's a six year old car that's just been bought for 40% of the new base price.

its only done 56k though

Woo.

[Vaud]

chriswg said:

Wow, first solicitor quoting £400+VAT to send a letter then total legal costs for a court case of £10k - £15k!

Get a new solicitor, that's a bit too high!

FYI - for small claims, you don't need a solicitor. The templates are all on the CAB website. You can edit them and put them up here for advice.

Small claims is supportive of an individual. You don't need special language. It is quite informal. Just use plain english.

[JustinP1]

janesmith1950 said:

POORCARDEALER said:

I would put that in writing to him recorded delivery if you have not already.

I'd email and send normal post. Mark both prominently "without prejudice" and put a reasonable time limit on the decision, maybe 7 days, to respond, otherwise proceedings will be issued without any further correspondence.

Personally, for tactical reasons I would do neither yet.

Formally asking the seller for the full amount will cement the seller's mental goalposts at £2500 (or whatever the OP puts to him).

Therefore, if he takes the matter seriously, which is an eventuality if the OP sends a formal warning of legal action (or court papers) during that process he will consider getting away with paying less than £2500 a 'win' of sorts. He would probably even offer £1250 in response.


However, if you go in and try to get settlement before you've shown that you're serious about court, you will likely fail. "Pay £1250? Get lost! I'm happy just ignoring you - why shouldn't I? If you really spend ages pushing me, I might give you £400 just to get you off my back."

I'm all for settling things - but the right time to do it is when you have shown all your cards, and shown that the settlement is the only way that the other party will be able to avoid appearing in court. Also take into account that if you do make an offer to settle, whatever it is will be counter-offered almost as a matter of course.

[berlintaxi]

Vaud said:

Get a new solicitor, that's a bit too high!

FYI - for small claims, you don't need a solicitor. The templates are all on the CAB website. You can edit them and put them up here for advice.

Small claims is supportive of an individual. You don't need special language. It is quite informal. Just use plain english.

Not for a decent solicitor involved in a technical case.

[ModernAndy]

andymc said:

TooMany2cvs said:

nikaiyo2 said:

andymc said:

its shameful that a car of this value needs the box replacing so soon

Err its an Audi S5

Quite. It's a six year old car that's just been bought for 40% of the new base price.

its only done 56k though

Mileage and age are completely beside the point here. It could be a 20 year old car with 250k miles and the issue would be the same. With a decent degree of certainty, the seller offloaded the car as an expensive fault manifested and kidded on the car was working fine.

[JustinP1]

Vaud said:

chriswg said:

Wow, first solicitor quoting £400+VAT to send a letter then total legal costs for a court case of £10k - £15k!

Get a new solicitor, that's a bit too high!

FYI - for small claims, you don't need a solicitor. The templates are all on the CAB website. You can edit them and put them up here for advice.

Small claims is supportive of an individual. You don't need special language. It is quite informal. Just use plain english.

Agreed with all of that. That's a silly quote. He doesn't want your business. This situation is as general and basic as it gets.

Have you tried your home insurance? My Hiscox insurance would cover the legal costs of this type of thing.

As Vaud has said, don't be put off. At small claims level, the Judge understands you are individuals and not legally trained it's very accessible. Indeed, your claim form would literally be about 8 sentences long.

• However* the statistic is that only something like 3% of claims get to a hearing. If you don't really want to go to court, he will be even less inclined to do so. If your goal is simply to get a contribution to the costs, then you are highly likely to get that by writing a letter, and if necessary following that up with a threat of legal action.

[anonymous-user]

JustinP1 said:

Personally, for tactical reasons I would do neither yet.

Formally asking the seller for the full amount will cement the seller's mental goalposts at £2500 (or whatever the OP puts to him).

Therefore, if he takes the matter seriously, which is an eventuality if the OP sends a formal warning of legal action (or court papers) during that process he will consider getting away with paying less than £2500 a 'win' of sorts. He would probably even offer £1250 in response.


However, if you go in and try to get settlement before you've shown that you're serious about court, you will likely fail. "Pay £1250? Get lost! I'm happy just ignoring you - why shouldn't I? If you really spend ages pushing me, I might give you £400 just to get you off my back."

I'm all for settling things - but the right time to do it is when you have shown all your cards, and shown that the settlement is the only way that the other party will be able to avoid appearing in court. Also take into account that if you do make an offer to settle, whatever it is will be counter-offered almost as a matter of course.

You may be over-thinking it here. Gather your evidence together, write a letter before claim detailing the basis of the case, the evidence that will be produced and what you want in return and how it's been calculated. Be realistic rather than fanciful. Say nothing that you wouldn't be able to follow through with if it goes to proceedings. Offer an amount to settle here and now or proceedings will be issued without further notice.

If he doesn't scare easily with a claim form landing on the doorstep, he's not going to scare easily without one, hence the posturing being a waste of time. Either there is a valid claim with a realistic prospect of success, or there isn't. If there is, play a straight bat and act sensibly. If there isn't, get it fixed and move on.

Disputes like this are time consuming, emotionally draining and often not worth the effort when looked at objectively (not to say the OP's claim is unimportant or invalid).

[JustinP1]

We're on the same page.

I totally agree.

The OP was saying that he was willing to settle, and POORCARDEALER said put this in writing if he'd not done so already.

I am suggesting that the important step before making any offer to settle is putting the evidence to the seller in a formal letter, telling him why his actions gave rise to a claim and showing what the full claim amount would be.

Edited by JustinP1 on Friday 16th September 10:53

[anonymous-user]

JustinP1 said:

We're on the same page.

I totally agree.

The OP was saying that he was willing to settle, and POORCARDEALER said put this in writing if he'd not done so already.

I am suggesting that the important step before making any offer to settle is putting the evidence to the seller in a formal letter, telling him why his actions gave rise to a claim and showing what the full claim amount would be.

Edited by JustinP1 on Friday 16th September 10:53

Totally.

[chriswg]

I just managed to get hold of the original advert from Autotrader who were brilliant and happy to help.

Dark BLUE S5 Convertible. Dunlop Sport Tyres VGC, Full Service History, Extras include, Advanced DVD Sat-Nav , Bang & Olufsen upgraded CD stereo, Electric seats, Heated seats front and rear, Audi Drive Select, Paddle shift, Bluetooth telephone connection, Bluetooth Audio, Parking sensors and rear Camera, Acoustic hood, Wind deflector included, Auto lights, Auto wipers, Climate control, All handbooks, V5 Document and spare key included, key opens hood. 3 owners, Next MOT and service April 2017, Full service history, Electric windows, Air conditioning, Advanced 3D Satellite navigation, Parking aid, Black and White Leather trim, Height adjustable driver's seat, Height adjustable passenger seat, Folding rear seats, Child seat points (Isofix system), Sports seats, Metallic paint, 20" Alloy Wheels, Spare wheel (Space-saver), Power steering, Steering wheel rake adjustment, Steering wheel reach adjustment, Cruise control, Traction control, Central locking, Alarm, Immobiliser, Driver's airbags, Side airbags, Passenger airbags. , Excellent condition throughout. APR software modified for over 1 year, runs beautifully. MUST DRIVE!, 3 owners, Air conditioning, Parking aid, DVD, MP3 player, Leather trim, Heated seats, Height adjustable driver's seat, Height adjustable passenger seat, Sports seats, Alloy wheels, Cruise control, Traction control, Central locking, Immobiliser, Driver's airbags, Side airbags, Passenger airbags. BLUE

One other thing that I've just noticed is that I don't think I have Audi Drive Select. That is the button on the central console where you can switch between dynamic / comfort / sport modes right? I've just double checked and there are no buttons there.

I guess this is the key sentence:

"Excellent condition throughout. APR software modified for over 1 year, runs beautifully. MUST DRIVE!"

Hopefully I can prove that this is a blatant misrepresentation of the car, and prove that he knew it.