E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?

[TCX]

Mobile organ donors,judging by folk you see in London on scooters,no helmet,dark clothing wobbling about all over shop

[irc]

TCX said:

Mobile organ donors,judging by folk you see in London on scooters,no helmet,dark clothing wobbling about all over shop

The scooter danger nobody seems to mention is the poor stability and small wheels. I do a lot of urban cycling and am constantly watching the road surface 30-50 feet ahead to avoid potholes, drains, surface changes etc. That said with full size bike wheels there isn't much I could hit that would throw me off the bike. Big potholes can be seen well ahead. Smaller "features" of the road can be hit and the wheel size and stabilty means it won't result in a crash.

If scooters ever become as widespead for urban commuting as bikes are I predict they will have a far higher fatality rate than bikes. For what it's worth despite perceptions urban cycling is fairly safe. There was approx 34 million miles cycled on Boris Bikes in London before the first fatality.

https://understandinguncertainty.org/fatality-risk...

For comparison there is one fatality every 185 million miles in a car.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

[unident]

over_the_hill said:

Tlandcruiser said:

Shuvi McTupya said:

Saw a bunch of rental ones in Lisbon (Portugal) recently that looked even 'fatter' than this..



The Harley Davidson of E Scooters!

I see your Harley and raise you to this;

What sort of range do you get on those and how long does a recharge take. Also where are the batteries - are they built into the frame.

If this take off prepare for a massive surge in E-scooter thefts.

I’d be amazed if the e-scooters being reviewed are anything like that, much more likely to be the other type.

[h0b0]

I’m amazed at how stable mine is. Having never been on a scooter before I was concerned about doing 20mph. Within the time it took to get to 20 I was completely comfortable. Where I scoot, cars go at similar speeds as me and having wider pneumatic tyres helps with the rough stuff.

[pip t]

irc said:

TCX said:

Mobile organ donors,judging by folk you see in London on scooters,no helmet,dark clothing wobbling about all over shop

The scooter danger nobody seems to mention is the poor stability and small wheels. I do a lot of urban cycling and am constantly watching the road surface 30-50 feet ahead to avoid potholes, drains, surface changes etc. That said with full size bike wheels there isn't much I could hit that would throw me off the bike. Big potholes can be seen well ahead. Smaller "features" of the road can be hit and the wheel size and stabilty means it won't result in a crash.

If scooters ever become as widespead for urban commuting as bikes are I predict they will have a far higher fatality rate than bikes. For what it's worth despite perceptions urban cycling is fairly safe. There was approx 34 million miles cycled on Boris Bikes in London before the first fatality.

https://understandinguncertainty.org/fatality-risk...

For comparison there is one fatality every 185 million miles in a car.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

This is a fair point - I've never ridden an e-scooter, they just look like a bit of a giggle. I've ridden smaller wheeled bikes though, and you're right, the smaller your wheels the more you have to be aware of the road surface. Though to a degree I would have thought it's easier to exit a scooter in the event of it going wrong - essentially just step off it. Or stumble off it as is more likely the case. I can see there being a chunk more injuries for sure, I'm not sure I'd agree there'd be such a huge rise in fatalities. Has that been the case in countries where they are legal?

[unident]

pip t said:

This is a fair point - I've never ridden an e-scooter, they just look like a bit of a giggle. I've ridden smaller wheeled bikes though, and you're right, the smaller your wheels the more you have to be aware of the road surface. Though to a degree I would have thought it's easier to exit a scooter in the event of it going wrong - essentially just step off it. Or stumble off it as is more likely the case. I can see there being a chunk more injuries for sure, I'm not sure I'd agree there'd be such a huge rise in fatalities. Has that been the case in countries where they are legal?

Stepping off, or whatever euphemism you’d prefer, at 20mph is going to hurt, quite a lot. This’ll be compounded if you’re just wearing normal everyday clothing and hitting tarmac. Tarmac is very unforgiving and very hard when you hit it.

[pip t]

unident said:

pip t said:

This is a fair point - I've never ridden an e-scooter, they just look like a bit of a giggle. I've ridden smaller wheeled bikes though, and you're right, the smaller your wheels the more you have to be aware of the road surface. Though to a degree I would have thought it's easier to exit a scooter in the event of it going wrong - essentially just step off it. Or stumble off it as is more likely the case. I can see there being a chunk more injuries for sure, I'm not sure I'd agree there'd be such a huge rise in fatalities. Has that been the case in countries where they are legal?

Stepping off, or whatever euphemism you’d prefer, at 20mph is going to hurt, quite a lot. This’ll be compounded if you’re just wearing normal everyday clothing and hitting tarmac. Tarmac is very unforgiving and very hard when you hit it.

To begin with, the majority of them aren't capable of 20mph. Most top out at 15. And that's maximum, you won't be doing it all the time.

Secondly, yes, tarmac is very unforgiving when you hit it, I have done so on several occasions from bikes. However while it does hurt, a lot of the time it's cuts, grazes and bruises. If you're unlucky, then worse. But the same applies to e-bikes and normal bikes.

I'm not saying they're risk free, I just think in general they're probably not particularly more of a risk than other two wheeled modes of transport.

[WJNB]

Dammit said:

They belong in the road, not on the pavement.

No in the gutter out of the way. They will be more of a nuisance than cyclists.

[unident]

pip t said:

To begin with, the majority of them aren't capable of 20mph. Most top out at 15. And that's maximum, you won't be doing it all the time.

Secondly, yes, tarmac is very unforgiving when you hit it, I have done so on several occasions from bikes. However while it does hurt, a lot of the time it's cuts, grazes and bruises. If you're unlucky, then worse. But the same applies to e-bikes and normal bikes.

I'm not saying they're risk free, I just think in general they're probably not particularly more of a risk than other two wheeled modes of transport.

It’ll still hurt, unless you’re doing walking pace. I think that most will be throttle to the stop everywhere, it’s more fun that way That’s what I’m like using the Lime ones in Germany anyway and they’re great fun. Admittedly, I’m always the one pushing the boundaries when it comes to speed. Experience has taught me that falling off anything isn’t fun, especially onto tarmac.

There’s going to be a lot of money needed to make the pavements / cycle lanes / roads a lot smoother to make these viable though.

[jonobigblind]

I’ve done over 120 miles on my M365 in my town in Wiltshire with no issues as yet.

Great little mode of transport that allows me to pop to the shops for a few bits and get back in a fraction of the time of walking. I can reach a local Tesco Express in the same time as driving too.

Haven’t had any issues using a combination of the many (and until now) underused cycle paths / lanes, wide pavements and roads. The police have had plenty of opportunities to stop / lecture / fine me but in each situation I’ve had nothing more than a smile.

It’s more convenient than taking my bike to the shop as at least I can fold it up and carry it in with me, not having to worry about locking it up and taking a wheel off to go in somewhere.

Riding in the rain is a bit of an issue but then the car comes into its own... nice to have the choice though

[quigonjay]

SmoothCriminal said:

what's the fastest one of these can go?

60 mph (restricted, which it will get to in 5 seconds) if you are prepared to spend £20k on one
Not sure how legal one of these would be on the road though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArVrokETJ2E

https://swind.life/products/swind-eb-01-mountain/

[pip t]

quigonjay said:

60 mph (restricted, which it will get to in 5 seconds) if you are prepared to spend £20k on one
Not sure how legal one of these would be on the road though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArVrokETJ2E

https://swind.life/products/swind-eb-01-mountain/

To be fair, that's very much an e-bike not an e-scooter......but having watched that....SO much want! And what an amazing company!

[A1VDY]

Lord Marylebone said:

PF62 said:

Lord Marylebone said:

Conclusion: If the law is changed, I think we we see an explosion in the use of these scooters. Everything from kids going to school on them to people commuting.

I personally think anything that allows people to move around urban areas quickly, cheaply and relatively quietly is a good thing.

Surprised to see someone on a motoring forum looking forward to a vast increase in 10-15mph vehicles on the road. Particularly when the users will be untrained, unlicensed, and uninsured.

Because it's not about what I want. It's about people being able to move around urban areas easily.
Driving in cities and even many town centres will be come increasingly pointless and legislated against anyway.

If I'm being honest, I only tend to drive in city centres for one of the following reasons:

a) I'm cruising about the streets in a Porsche/Lambo/other silly car, on an evening or weekend, and essentially just having fun at whatever speed the traffic is crawling at, before parking outside a bar/restaurant for the evening and then going home.

b) I'm in that particular city for work, visiting friends, or browsing the shops and attractions, and the public transport links insufficient so I have to use a car to get there.


I live outside the city but with good train links, so I tend to use trains/tubes/trams whenever I can for work.

If I'm actually doing any driving for fun, or going a long distance, it will be in out of town areas where the speed limit is 40-70mph and there won't be anyone on a 15mph scooter and very few cyclists, so they won't bother me.

Things change. I'm happy to roll with the changes, whatever they may be.

I absolutely love cars, but I'm fully aware that we all need to adapt to change, and at a quicker pace than has probably ever been seen in 50 years or so, and if that means my urban driving being affected or 'slowed down' by more cyclists and scooters then so be it.

Edited by Lord Marylebone on Saturday 9th May 18:37

'A'
Only a complete look at me military grade bellend would do that..

[Fast and Spurious]

A1VDY said:

Lord Marylebone said:

PF62 said:

Lord Marylebone said:

Conclusion: If the law is changed, I think we we see an explosion in the use of these scooters. Everything from kids going to school on them to people commuting.

I personally think anything that allows people to move around urban areas quickly, cheaply and relatively quietly is a good thing.

Surprised to see someone on a motoring forum looking forward to a vast increase in 10-15mph vehicles on the road. Particularly when the users will be untrained, unlicensed, and uninsured.

Because it's not about what I want. It's about people being able to move around urban areas easily.
Driving in cities and even many town centres will be come increasingly pointless and legislated against anyway.

If I'm being honest, I only tend to drive in city centres for one of the following reasons:

a) I'm cruising about the streets in a Porsche/Lambo/other silly car, on an evening or weekend, and essentially just having fun at whatever speed the traffic is crawling at, before parking outside a bar/restaurant for the evening and then going home.

b) I'm in that particular city for work, visiting friends, or browsing the shops and attractions, and the public transport links insufficient so I have to use a car to get there.


I live outside the city but with good train links, so I tend to use trains/tubes/trams whenever I can for work.

If I'm actually doing any driving for fun, or going a long distance, it will be in out of town areas where the speed limit is 40-70mph and there won't be anyone on a 15mph scooter and very few cyclists, so they won't bother me.

Things change. I'm happy to roll with the changes, whatever they may be.

I absolutely love cars, but I'm fully aware that we all need to adapt to change, and at a quicker pace than has probably ever been seen in 50 years or so, and if that means my urban driving being affected or 'slowed down' by more cyclists and scooters then so be it.

Edited by Lord Marylebone on Saturday 9th May 18:37

'A'
Only a complete look at me military grade bellend would do that..

Really? Oh....

[Ian Geary]

pre lockdown I did a 20mile each way commute on a motorbike.

Apart from speed, the main drawback of pedal cycling was needing a shower and change of clothes at work.

It does seem that e scooters will take away the sweatiness aspect, though at 15 my commute would more than double in time (I average about 40mph)

Plus it would be funny to see scooterists on the first day with heavy rain....I doubt they will invest as much in proper waterproofs, and i'm not sure leisure style waterproofs cut it once you're moving at speed through the stuff.


Ian

[anonymous-user]

A1VDY said:

'A'
Only a complete look at me military grade bellend would do that..

I am absolutely fine with that.

Everyone enjoys cars in different ways. There is no right or wrong to what people do with their cars. Go to any city in the world and you will see sportscars/supercars having a leisurely cruise about in the traffic.

I suppose you think everyone who lives in Monaco, owns a supercar, and uses it to simply get around town at 25mph is a military grade bellend?

I wouldn’t be so rude as to try and tell others how they should be using their own cars.

The point in all of this is, the landscape of transport is changing rapidly, and I’m not going to moan about scooters and cyclists on the roads, they have as much right as any of us to get somewhere.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 10th May 11:27

[Saleen836]

If they make them legal will there then be a rise in cheap chinese imports?
When the self balancing Segboards became popular every man and his dog wanted one,the cheapo chinese imports flooded the market and all over the news was them catching fire caused by the battery or something

[ChocolateFrog]

Fast and Spurious said:

A1VDY said:

Lord Marylebone said:

PF62 said:

Lord Marylebone said:

Conclusion: If the law is changed, I think we we see an explosion in the use of these scooters. Everything from kids going to school on them to people commuting.

I personally think anything that allows people to move around urban areas quickly, cheaply and relatively quietly is a good thing.

Surprised to see someone on a motoring forum looking forward to a vast increase in 10-15mph vehicles on the road. Particularly when the users will be untrained, unlicensed, and uninsured.

Because it's not about what I want. It's about people being able to move around urban areas easily.
Driving in cities and even many town centres will be come increasingly pointless and legislated against anyway.

If I'm being honest, I only tend to drive in city centres for one of the following reasons:

a) I'm cruising about the streets in a Porsche/Lambo/other silly car, on an evening or weekend, and essentially just having fun at whatever speed the traffic is crawling at, before parking outside a bar/restaurant for the evening and then going home.

b) I'm in that particular city for work, visiting friends, or browsing the shops and attractions, and the public transport links insufficient so I have to use a car to get there.


I live outside the city but with good train links, so I tend to use trains/tubes/trams whenever I can for work.

If I'm actually doing any driving for fun, or going a long distance, it will be in out of town areas where the speed limit is 40-70mph and there won't be anyone on a 15mph scooter and very few cyclists, so they won't bother me.

Things change. I'm happy to roll with the changes, whatever they may be.

I absolutely love cars, but I'm fully aware that we all need to adapt to change, and at a quicker pace than has probably ever been seen in 50 years or so, and if that means my urban driving being affected or 'slowed down' by more cyclists and scooters then so be it.

Edited by Lord Marylebone on Saturday 9th May 18:37

'A'
Only a complete look at me military grade bellend would do that..

Really? Oh....

Yes really, unless you crave attention from 12 year olds.

I think that's why so many Lambo's self immolate in cities, the shame.

[h0b0]

If someone invented the bike today PHs would ban it. Ancient PH man would look at a horse and think “deadly. Should be put down”.

My scooter is much more stable and controllable than my kids kick scooters. It’s those lethal things that should be banned. And, until recently my kids had stabilizers on their bikes. A clear demonstration of lack of control of a vehicle, 4 points, and an undeclared modification. Lock them up.

It’s an oddly negative view of the world that seems to be present here.

As has been said, I use mine for shorter trips that walking isn’t practical for. Every time I do this I reduce congestion on the roads and pollution. I’m not pretending I’m doing this to be green but they are the unintended consequences. After all, my car has a 4.8V8 engine in it so not using it for any trip benefits everyone.

Like anything else, if they are used in a responsible manner then they can be safe. Most of the risk is nothing to do with the scooter and everything to do with the car driver. That is the same for bikes, horses and insured motorbikes. Having said that, I always wear a helmet and carry i.d.

If we think scooters are for chavs using or stealing them. (PH is the only place on earth still using that term) Then again you have an unrelated problem that needs to be resolved. To suggest I shouldn’t be able to use something because someone else will steal it is utterly ridiculous.

The only people I know with them are,
me - a 40 year old working in tech having just left finance
My friend - 60 year old in finance.

I don’t think we are “Chav”.

[eccles]

Saleen836 said:

If they make them legal will there then be a rise in cheap chinese imports?
When the self balancing Segboards became popular every man and his dog wanted one,the cheapo chinese imports flooded the market and all over the news was them catching fire caused by the battery or something

Definitely this. After a few near misses and the odd fire here and there work places will ban you from charging them there. Where I work they've banned 'e' cigarette chargers after a few incidents. Rechargeable, cheap and Chinese don't generally go well together.