Plebgate - An interesting new twist

[IroningMan]

IroningMan said:

Elroy Blue said:

Will Andrew Mitchell release a full and unedited transcript of his meeting with the Fed. I mean, he's got nothing to hide has he.

Be nice, but it may not be in his gift.

Actually I'd go further - would the Fed attempt to prevent such a release, given that they appear to have rather misrepresented what was said, on the grounds that they didn't know they were on tape?

[Gene Vincent]

Elroy Blue said:

Gene Vincent said:

trying to drive home how great the Police are, even exploiting the incident involving the two officers that died in a grenade attack around that time.

You are normally on my ignore list. But that comment proves what a completely ignorant, obnoxious individual you are. Its so fking offensive that it is surely only something a cowardly imbecile would post from the anonymity of a keyboard.

Go visit the police station in Hyde and make that comment. You are beneath contempt

Don't attack the messenger, it is 'out there' so it is valid to highlight it.

If it is founded on even a scintilla of truth then perhaps it won't be incumbent on me visiting the station, but perhaps the Police Union might want to explain themselves.

[Elroy Blue]

Gene Vincent said:

Don't attack the messenger, it is 'out there' so it is valid to highlight it.

If it is founded on even a scintilla of truth then perhaps it won't be incumbent on me visiting the station, but perhaps the Police Union might want to explain themselves.

Bullst. Nobody has ever suggested such a thing but you in order to try and further the views of your poisened little mind. Perhaps you might go along and say it to the families as well.

[Gene Vincent]

Elroy Blue said:

Gene Vincent said:

Don't attack the messenger, it is 'out there' so it is valid to highlight it.

If it is founded on even a scintilla of truth then perhaps it won't be incumbent on me visiting the station, but perhaps the Police Union might want to explain themselves.

Bullst. Nobody has ever suggested such a thing but you in order to try and further the views of your poisened little mind. Perhaps you might go along and say it to the families as well.

Well... you certainly failed my 'attitude test' today!

You're told the truth and you can't accept it and call it (charmlessly) bullst.

[Mill Wheel]

Breadvan72 said:

Back at gategategategategate (to the power of gate), the video footage just shown on Channel 4 suggests that the police officers may have been seconded from Melton Mowbray.

Are you suggesting that they would not be able to exit the PEDESTRIAN GATE side by side...?!!

I see from that same film, it is indeed "Pedestrian Gate gate etc."

[Gene Vincent]

Mill Wheel said:

Breadvan72 said:

Back at gategategategategate (to the power of gate), the video footage just shown on Channel 4 suggests that the police officers may have been seconded from Melton Mowbray.

Are you suggesting that they would not be able to exit the PEDESTRIAN GATE side by side...?!!

I see from that same film, it is indeed "Pedestrian Gate gate etc."

We could amalgamate the whole thing and call it Pedalophilegate... I want money for these helpful suggestions, I really do!

[davemac250]

If I post something here now do I need documentary evidence?

The lunatics are certainly taking over.

[Derek Smith]

eldar said:

PACE appeared, and was enforced. I have a little card which gets me into my local custody suites, any time, and lets me poke around, talk in private to detainees, look at custody records and make sure no piss taking is going on. If it is I can phone the chief constable, and if necessary the home secretary.

You could do that, if you were inclined, as could just about anyone. As a member of the public. Makes it hard for the police to be corrupt with nosy fkers like me turning up unannounced at random times.

PACE was enforced by the police and they took it beyond what the government expected.

Lay visitors are an excellent innovation. Many people don't believe that they actually exist. My old force had them for CCTV monitoring as well. When we got people complaining about them I used to mention the lay visitors and that used to nip them in the bud.

Brighton also used to have an ex-druggie who used to sit in the cell block three or four nights a week and if we brought in a druggie, whether or not for a drugs related offence, we used to ask if they would like to talk to him.

Quite apart from the calming influence he had on a number of druggies, the fact that a civvie was there, in the cell block, during the busy times was support for the fact that we had nothing to hide. What with lay visitors as well, it is all the more irritating when people suggest that the police beat up prisoner as a matter of course.

[Wills2]

I'll be gob smacked if it turns out that the police have fabricated evidence regarding who said what and made up first hand witness statements over a childish spat over which gate someone was or wasn't allowed to go through.

I know there have been well publicised miscarriages of justice in major incidents and crimes, but over a gate, really?


My gob is well and truely smacked.

Edited by Wills2 on Wednesday 19th December 09:27

[Exige77]

If you look at the C4 report it is "Clear" some of what was reported was incorrect.

I think there is more to come.

Ex77

[Gene Vincent]

Wills2 said:

I'll be gob smacked if it turns out that the police have fabricated evidence regarding who said what and made up first hand witness statements over a childish spat over which gate someone was or wasn't allowed to go through.

I know there have been well publicised miscarriages of justice in major incidents and crimes, but over a gate, really?

Sky appear to be saying that now. So you might want to duck.

[Exige77]

http://www.youtube.com/user/channel4news

An extract of the C4 report.

The full report was much more detailed.

Ex77

[Mill Wheel]

XCP said:

I did.
It certainly muddied the waters a bit more.
Is it being claimed that the PC who allegedly sent the email to his MP is the one who has been arrested??
It also raised the question of how C4 got the CCTV from Downing St and the Foreign Office...

The CCTV film was released by the Cabinet Office, and verified genuine by them... according to Channel Four.
As far as I am aware it has been confirmed that the man who sent the email IS the officer who has been arrested.

[Mill Wheel]

Gene Vincent said:

We could amalgamate the whole thing and call it Pedalophilegate³... I want money for these helpful suggestions, I really do!

I'm not sure where you draw your inspiration from, but you should give them a cut!

[NorthernBoy]

Derek Smith said:

Why are there these anti-police rants so often? I

Because of unacceptable, incompetent, and illegal behavior by certain police, combined with an attitude of superiority, and a refusal to accept that there are some very, very bad apples.

In the year that the truth came out about Hillsborough, you can hardly be surprised if some of us are utterly disgusted with some of you.

[Rovinghawk]

Derek Smith said:

Telling an MP anything whilst acting as a whistleblower is not the safest thing to charge. I could not see that going anywhere. Even on discipline it is a bit iffy. So what is the more to come?

I think C4 has answered that quite well- alleged fabrication of evidence by a policeman to support other policemen against a government official - seems quite serious to me.

Derek Smith said:

This is quite fascinating.

I couldn't agree more. I look forward to the final outcome.

RH

[rewc]

NorthernBoy said:

Because of unacceptable, incompetent, and illegal behavior by certain police, combined with an attitude of superiority, and a refusal to accept that there are some very, very bad apples.

In the year that the truth came out about Hillsborough, you can hardly be surprised if some of us are utterly disgusted with some of you.

Because of a reluctance by the Police to accept, as in the case of Mr Tomlinson, that Police Officers can behave as a rabble who appear to have no local leadership. A group of Officer's observed the assault but none, including the senior rank if there was one, saw fit to do anything about.

[streaky]

Caulkhead said:

Elroy Blue said:

Caulkhead said:

Please, don't interrupt Elroy Blue's long standing and vicious personal hatred of Cameron (he treats his protection officers like dirt you know?) and the tories with facts.

Mitchell is ex-army and should've known better than to treat uniformed officers the way he would've treated subordinate uniformed squaddies, but as a one-off incident it's well below the idiocy shown by many other MP's of all persuasions.

I don't think my dislike of Cameron and his ilk compares with your stalking of me. You seem to have a right little bee in your bonnet

Mitchell served five minutes in the army. Its interesting that you think his behaviour us an acceptable way to treat 'squaddies'. As someone who has also held a commission in the Forces, it is never acceptable to display such arrogant and contemptuous behaviour.

As for it being a 'one off', I think you'll find even Mitchell's supporters would disagree with you there. (But as you seem to know all the facts, you'll probably want to come out with some more juicy information)

You appear on every even half-related thread to whine about Cameron. I'd have to avoid virtually all political threads to avoid 'stalking' you.

You need to learn to read - where did I say I thought his behaviour was an acceptable way to treat squaddies? As someone who served himself including in Op Granby, I am well aware of how new officers on an SSC after public school can treat the lower ranks. How exactly is saying he 'should've known better than to treat uniformed officers the way' confirming it is acceptable behaviour?

It's just another opportunity for you to exercise the chip on your shoulder as usual - you didn't even know he wasn't a minster.

I think you should apologise to Elroy Blue. The Chief Whip is also the Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury - which is a ministerial position (albeit, junior) and a member of the Cabinet.

Streaky

[NorthernBoy]

Rovinghawk said:

Mail him a link to the Channel 4 news YouTube, why don't you? If that doesn't give him doubts then I'll be disappointed in him.

RH

I wonder if he's seen anything that gives him any doubts about the original reports from Hillsborough, or the original reports on Tomlinson, or the Guildord four.

On the other hand, he's probably full of doubts about the Met being shot through with racism, about De Menezes walking not running, and about each and every case of police is honesty or brutality.

[Rovinghawk]

Elroy Blue said:

Cameron's lacky, Met boss Hyphen-Howe states "I have seen nothing that causes me to doubt that original account made by Police on duty at the time"

Mail him a link to the Channel 4 news YouTube, why don't you? If that doesn't give him doubts then I'll be disappointed in him.

RH

(rewritten after accidental deletion instead of editing)