speed limits: do they work? (of course not)

[Pete317]

tapereel said:

Well in your post above you are viewing the funding as the authorities "profiting" but you have of course omitted to mention how much the activity costs the authorities.
Profit can only be calculated by considering revenues and costs and you have not done that so your opinion is flawed.

Ok, now repeat the same revenue-cost exercise for other crimes

[33q]

Before taking issue with any speed limit do these things

Drive along in your car

Cycle it

Walk it

Ride a horse on it

Ride a motorcycle on it

Let your children walk it

Let your wife walk with your dog on it

All road users so all surely to be considered as to what limit should be in force

Also allow for the fact that good number of roads users can't drive at any speed

If all users drove sensibly then no limits would ever be needed. They don't ......so someone has to set them and err on the side of caution

[Willy Nilly]

33q said:

Before taking issue with any speed limit do these things

Drive along in your car

Cycle it

Walk it

Ride a horse on it

Ride a motorcycle on it

Let your children walk it

Let your wife walk with your dog on it

All road users so all surely to be considered as to what limit should be in force

Also allow for the fact that good number of roads users can't drive at any speed

If all users drove sensibly then no limits would ever be needed. They don't ......so someone has to set them and err on the side of caution

I run and was out training one night and saw a motorbike cop waving a radar at the traffic. I then ran over to him and told him that I couldn't care less how fast the traffic was going.

[vonhosen]

Willy Nilly said:

33q said:

Before taking issue with any speed limit do these things

Drive along in your car

Cycle it

Walk it

Ride a horse on it

Ride a motorcycle on it

Let your children walk it

Let your wife walk with your dog on it

All road users so all surely to be considered as to what limit should be in force

Also allow for the fact that good number of roads users can't drive at any speed

If all users drove sensibly then no limits would ever be needed. They don't ......so someone has to set them and err on the side of caution

I run and was out training one night and saw a motorbike cop waving a radar at the traffic. I then ran over to him and told him that I couldn't care less how fast the traffic was going.

I don't believe you.

A radar?

[Moonhawk]

33q said:

If all users drove sensibly then no limits would ever be needed. They don't ......so someone has to set them and err on the side of caution

Even if we could eliminate speeding overnight - just how much do we think the casualty rate would drop?

10%, 25%, 50%, 80%?

There are so many other factors that contribute to the fatality rate that continuing to concentrate on speed is IMO pretty short sighted.

[vonhosen]

Moonhawk said:

33q said:

If all users drove sensibly then no limits would ever be needed. They don't ......so someone has to set them and err on the side of caution

Even if we could eliminate speeding overnight - just how much do we think the casualty rate would drop?

10%, 25%, 50%, 80%?

There are so many other factors that contribute to the fatality rate that continuing to concentrate on speed is IMO pretty short sighted.

1) It's not going to be eliminated.
2) It's not only about casualties.

We don't solely concentrate on speeding & if we are to have speed limits there needs to be some enforcement of them (or there is no point having them).

To be honest the level of enforcement is pretty low across the network, so much so that with a little intelligence & attention you run very little risk of being prosecuted.

[Willy Nilly]

vonhosen said:

1) It's not going to be eliminated.
2) It's not only about casualties.

We don't solely concentrate on speeding & if we are to have speed limits there needs to be some enforcement of them (or there is no point having them).

To be honest the level of enforcement is pretty low across the network, so much so that with a little intelligence & attention you run very little risk of being prosecuted.

The way the Speed Kills mantra has been banded around, one might be forgiven for thinking that by simply obeying the round sign (no matter the conditions) all crashes, deaths and injuries will be eliminated.

If a speed limit is dropped or a camera installed and the KSI's don't go down, the limit is never reinstated. The medicine isn't working, best we increase the dose. It is always speed in any accident that gets the headlines. It's never not paying attention, for instance.

You say that you don't concentrate solely on speeding. What exactly do all of the cameras looking at the roads do then? A colleague of mine has no tax, no MOT and no insurance and drives on a foreign license with at least 9 points that I know of. Exactly what are you doing about him? I'll give you a clue, fk all.

Accidents on the road, at work and in general have a multitude of contributing factors, yet on the road it is ALWAYS speeding that grabs the headline, every time. Never are any other of the contributing factors mentioned.

[vonhosen]

Willy Nilly said:

vonhosen said:

1) It's not going to be eliminated.
2) It's not only about casualties.

We don't solely concentrate on speeding & if we are to have speed limits there needs to be some enforcement of them (or there is no point having them).

To be honest the level of enforcement is pretty low across the network, so much so that with a little intelligence & attention you run very little risk of being prosecuted.

The way the Speed Kills mantra has been banded around, one might be forgiven for thinking that by simply obeying the round sign (no matter the conditions) all crashes, deaths and injuries will be eliminated.

If a speed limit is dropped or a camera installed and the KSI's don't go down, the limit is never reinstated. The medicine isn't working, best we increase the dose. It is always speed in any accident that gets the headlines. It's never not paying attention, for instance.

You say that you don't concentrate solely on speeding. What exactly do all of the cameras looking at the roads do then? A colleague of mine has no tax, no MOT and no insurance and drives on a foreign license with at least 9 points that I know of. Exactly what are you doing about him? I'll give you a clue, fk all.

Not me, we as a nation don't focus solely on speeding, I have nothing to do with speed enforcement.
We have other traffic offence enforcement.

I wouldn't personally expect speed enforcement to deal with any other offences, I'd expect them to deal with speed enforcement. Despite the fact that they can & do deal with other offences sometimes when dealing with speed enforcement

By it's nature speed enforcement should be anywhere, anytime & need be for no other reason than to encourage compliance with limits everywhere.

Willy Nilly said:

Accidents on the road, at work and in general have a multitude of contributing factors, yet on the road it is ALWAYS speeding that grabs the headline, every time. Never are any other of the contributing factors mentioned.

That's patently not true.

Drink drive campaigns?
LGV mirror use V cyclist campaigns?
etc etc.

Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 16th August 20:59

[cmaguire]

Pete317 said:

So why do we still have the constant push for lower speed limits, more enforcement, more traffic calming, more blanket 20mph limits etc?

Votes

[Willy Nilly]

vonhosen said:

That's patently not true.

Drink drive campaigns?
LGV mirror use V cyclist campaigns?
etc etc.

Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 16th August 20:59

Fortunes have been spent on speed cameras, absolute fortunes, the place is infested with them. Fortunes have been spent on the "Speed Kills" propaganda. How many man hours are spent each year related to speeding, cameras, fines, adverts etc and how does that compare to all of the rest of the safety campaigns? If I drive past a camera above the trigger speed, I will get prosecuted, no matter what the conditions are, yet when will my colleague get pulled for driving without any of the paperwork that everyone else has to?

The local authorities have lowered most of the speed limits around here, for what benefit? People buy a house next to the road and then complain about traffic. These people shouldn't be appeased with lower limits, they should be ridiculed. A couple of years ago I saw the local BIB (it was actually a woman) doing a speed check outside a school. It was a Sunday in August and the school is the only building on the road, opposite is a field that was wheat stubble. Nice work.

[Pete317]

Willy Nilly said:

It is always speed in any accident that gets the headlines. It's never not paying attention, for instance.

As if to prove your point: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/pensioner-fac...

It's patently clear that the driver, for whatever reason, completely failed to see the pedestrian, and made no attempt to slow down or take any other avoiding action.

But, according to the article, it's all about speed...

Edited by Pete317 on Sunday 16th August 21:19

[0000]

vonhosen said:

That's patently not true.

Drink drive campaigns?
LGV mirror use V cyclist campaigns?
etc etc.

Drop in the ocean.

[vonhosen]

Willy Nilly said:

vonhosen said:

That's patently not true.

Drink drive campaigns?
LGV mirror use V cyclist campaigns?
etc etc.

Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 16th August 20:59

Fortunes have been spent on speed cameras, absolute fortunes, the place is infested with them. Fortunes have been spent on the "Speed Kills" propaganda. How many man hours are spent each year related to speeding, cameras, fines, adverts etc and how does that compare to all of the rest of the safety campaigns? If I drive past a camera above the trigger speed, I will get prosecuted, no matter what the conditions are, yet when will my colleague get pulled for driving without any of the paperwork that everyone else has to?

The local authorities have lowered most of the speed limits around here, for what benefit? People buy a house next to the road and then complain about traffic. These people shouldn't be appeased with lower limits, they should be ridiculed. A couple of years ago I saw the local BIB (it was actually a woman) doing a speed check outside a school. It was a Sunday in August and the school is the only building on the road, opposite is a field that was wheat stubble. Nice work.

The fortunes have been spent by the speeding drivers, not from the public purse!

The no insurance laws have been changed to make it easier to deal with those who don't have insurance. People who get stopped without the proper documents get reported for that.

Local authorities are asked to review limits by the central government elected by the populace.
As I said speed enforcement should be anytime, anywhere (inc Sunday mornings) for no other reason than to uphold the limits (as far as I'm concerned). The conditions are irrelevant for exceeding the speed limit. It's the maximum permitted speed in optimal conditions. The idea of speed limits is flawed without the ability to enforce anytime, anywhere.

[vonhosen]

0000 said:

vonhosen said:

That's patently not true.

Drink drive campaigns?
LGV mirror use V cyclist campaigns?
etc etc.

Drop in the ocean.

As is speed enforcement.

Doesn't alter the fact that what I'm saying is true, unlike the claim made by Willy Nilly.

[Willy Nilly]

vonhosen said:

The fortunes have been spent by the speeding drivers, not from the public purse!

Did all of those speed cameras install themselves for free, did they? Did all of those lowered speed limits get lowered at zero cost did the? I get all of those SPEED KILLS adverts didn't cost a penny either

[Pete317]

vonhosen said:

The idea of speed limits is flawed.

Fixed it for you

[Willy Nilly]

vonhosen said:

0000 said:

vonhosen said:

That's patently not true.

Drink drive campaigns?
LGV mirror use V cyclist campaigns?
etc etc.

Drop in the ocean.

As is speed enforcement.

Doesn't alter the fact that what I'm saying is true, unlike the claim made by Willy Nilly.

There are miles of average speed camera enforced roads. the A127 has them from Basildon to Southend and they lowered the limit to 50 too which is far too low for a DC, particularly off peak when I use them. They limit on Southend sea front got dropped to 20 with average speed camera to enforce it, never mind all of the Gatso's around town. God only knows how many miles are average speed cameras were on the M1 when they widened it, then they put a load of cameras on the gantries, as they have done on the M25, and M6.

No problem for the uninsured though.

[33q]

In 30mph zones why do you need to speed?

Trouble with planning or time management?

Poor awareness of your own speed or the posted limit?

No respect for law?

No respect for other road users or residents?

[Willy Nilly]

33q said:

In 30mph zones why do you need to speed?

Trouble with planning or time management?

Poor awareness of your own speed or the posted limit?

No respect for law?

No respect for other road users or residents?

The road outside my house is a proper old fashioned 30 limit, it's quite a sensible limit. There are shops, bus stops, schools, churches and parked cars. I'll wager the vast majority of vehicles driving past my house in the last 2 hours have been speeding. Do I care? Nope.

[Willy Nilly]

vonhosen said:

As I said speed enforcement should be anytime, anywhere (inc Sunday mornings) for no other reason than to uphold the limits (as far as I'm concerned). The conditions are irrelevant for exceeding the speed limit. It's the maximum permitted speed in optimal conditions. The idea of speed limits is flawed without the ability to enforce anytime, anywhere.

If a new law was brought in tomorrow that said you should wear a hard hat at all times and if you didn't you would be liable for a £100 fine would you consider that to be a sensible law? After all, head injuries are bad news and lives could be saved. Even in situations where there is little no no risk of anything falling on you head you would have to wear a hard hat.