Continuous Insurance crap

[R1 Loon]

ZOLLAR said:

Brilliant post R1Loon, saaby this is what CIE is about and will do.
I believe this post has brought the thread full circle (although saaby i have a feeling you may disagree ).
The only thing we can do is see what happens when it comes into force.

Cheers

tvrgit said:

tvrgit waits for inevitable retort that either bears only a tenuous reference to the question, or picks up on some trivial irrelevant word that supposedly opens up a whole new avenue of circular pointless debate

Edited by tvrgit on Sunday 5th December 22:35

Love the edit

[tvrgit]

That wasn't the edit TBH - I boluxed up the quoting!

[saaby93]

tvrgit said:

DVLA said:

You can make a SORN using our online or phone service then you can apply for a refund of vehicle tax for any full calendar months left on the tax disc using an Application for a refund of vehicle tax with a tax disc (V14). This form can be downloaded http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_40... or is available at any Post Office® that issues tax discs.

Or you can make SORN when you apply for the refund on the Application for a refund of vehicle tax with a tax disc (V14). Please return the tax disc and the form to DVLA, Swansea. The address is on the form.

So it seems SORN = no tax disk.

Thanks
Does it only say after applying for SORN you 'can' apply for a refund.
I cant remember who posted it now but it does look like you can keep the disc (unless they change it)

[Pothole]

any of you moaners care enough to contact your MP or the Minister for Transport?

Or would that be too much effort as well?

[tvrgit]

saaby93 said:

tvrgit said:

DVLA said:

You can make a SORN using our online or phone service then you can apply for a refund of vehicle tax for any full calendar months left on the tax disc using an Application for a refund of vehicle tax with a tax disc (V14). This form can be downloaded http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_40... or is available at any Post Office® that issues tax discs.

Or you can make SORN when you apply for the refund on the Application for a refund of vehicle tax with a tax disc (V14). Please return the tax disc and the form to DVLA, Swansea. The address is on the form.

So it seems SORN = no tax disk.

Thanks
Does it only say after applying for SORN you 'can' apply for a refund.
I cant remember who posted it now but it does look like you can keep the disc (unless they change it)

Nope it's still there...



Nope... OK One more go... I'll read my post again. Oh yes, it says that you CAN claim a refund (which by the normal rules of English grammatical construction implies that you don't have to if you can't be bothered). Then if you look at the link to download the form, it says you must send back the disk to claim a refund. So it does not look like you keep the disk.

ETA:

And today's trivial irrelevant word is "can". That's "can". Check your scratchcards now. If your card uncovers the word "can" then you have won today's star prize - a framed extract from Roget's Thesaurus that places "can" beside such words as "might", "could" or "jamjar", but not "have to", "should" or "average speed".

Edited by tvrgit on Sunday 5th December 22:58

[Nigel Worc's]

tvrgit said:

saaby93 said:

tvrgit said:

DVLA said:

You can make a SORN using our online or phone service then you can apply for a refund of vehicle tax for any full calendar months left on the tax disc using an Application for a refund of vehicle tax with a tax disc (V14). This form can be downloaded http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_40... or is available at any Post Office® that issues tax discs.

Or you can make SORN when you apply for the refund on the Application for a refund of vehicle tax with a tax disc (V14). Please return the tax disc and the form to DVLA, Swansea. The address is on the form.

So it seems SORN = no tax disk.

Thanks
Does it only say after applying for SORN you 'can' apply for a refund.
I cant remember who posted it now but it does look like you can keep the disc (unless they change it)

Nope it's still there...



Nope... OK One more go... I'll read my post again. Oh yes, it says that you CAN claim a refund (which by the normal rules of English grammatical construction implies that you don't have to if you can't be bothered). Then if you look at the link to download the form, it says you must send back the disk to claim a refund. So it does not look like you keep the disk.

They (the chaps I spoke to) didn't know about keeping or returning the tax disk, because as far as they were concerned, all the fine print hasn't been signed off yet.

They just knew that it wouldn't affect me and my bike !

I still can't see this helping the overall picture of uninsured drivers.

I still think, even after all these discussions, it'll make offenders out of people who weren't doing anything wrong before it came into force.

[saaby93]

tvrgit said:

Nope... OK One more go... I'll read my post again. Oh yes, it says that you CAN claim a refund (which by the normal rules of English grammatical construction implies that you don't have to if you can't be bothered). Then if you look at the link to download the form, it says you must send back the disk to claim a refund. So it does not look like you keep the disk.

I'm sure you're well versed in the use of 'can' by such departments
And 'must' to claim a refund.

So you 'can' keep the disc if you don't claim a refund?
Where's Oldsoak with his meerkat

[tvrgit]

saaby93 said:

tvrgit said:

Nope... OK One more go... I'll read my post again. Oh yes, it says that you CAN claim a refund (which by the normal rules of English grammatical construction implies that you don't have to if you can't be bothered). Then if you look at the link to download the form, it says you must send back the disk to claim a refund. So it does not look like you keep the disk.

I'm sure you're well versed in the use of 'can' by such departments
And 'must' to claim a refund.

So you 'can' keep the disc if you don't claim a refund?
Where's Oldsoak with his meerkat

tvrgit said:

And today's trivial irrelevant word is "can". That's "can". Check your scratchcards now. If your card uncovers the word "can" then you have won today's star prize - a framed extract from Roget's Thesaurus that places "can" beside such words as "might", "could" or "jamjar", but not "have to", "should" or "average speed".

Edited by tvrgit on Sunday 5th December 23:15

[saaby93]

I know it's only another forum but it says same here?
http://www.300zx-club.com/forum/showthread.php?966...

300zxclub said:

If your car is taxed and it is not insured SORN must be declared even if it is off the road.

[tvrgit]

It's late. Nurse will be round shortly to take the crayons away because it's a school day tomorrow. Nite.

[saaby93]

tvrgit said:

It's late. Nurse will be round shortly to take the crayons away because it's a school day tomorrow. Nite.

ok
and thanks for finding the links

[gareth_r]

I fondly remember the good old days...
when I didn't have to prove I wasn't a drug dealer or terrorist in order to open a bank account
when I didn't have to prove I wasn't a car thief in order to buy number plates
and now I can add,
when I didn't have to prove I wasn't going to drive without insurance before I could own a motor vehicle.

Would anyone care to hazard a guess how many drug dealers and car thieves have been inconvenienced by the previous laws which made the law abiding majority pay for the actions of a tiny criminal minority?

Somebody should explain to the geniuses who think they run this country that the people they are targeting are criminals, and ignoring the law is the one thing all criminals have in common.

A new law is just another law for the criminals to intentionally ignore or circumvent.

For the millions who are not criminals, it's another thing to unintentionally forget.

So the criminals get away scot free, and the law-abiding are fined... brilliant system.

[Getragdogleg]

So I have two lots of paperwork to do now at the end of the summer ?

1: fill in a form and send the tax back (even though its free)
2: fill in a form (online) telling them the car is off road.

So to it costs me time, effort, a stamp and a walk to the post office to tell DVLA I am NOT doing something ?

That "not" being driving the car with no insurance, which I don't ever do anyway, have never done and if i did It would be because I had an emergency of such huge proportions I had to drive with none and there truly was no other option, even then i would feel guilty and be looking out for the "rozzers".

I might have decide a life of crime is fking easier than a life of paperwork servitude to the man and his stupid solutions to non problems that neither address the implied problem or have any real world use at all.

Edited by Getragdogleg on Monday 6th December 00:25

[Cyberprog]

You can SORN online now apparently. Same website as the one you buy the tax disc on.

And a Laid-Up cover would make sense if it covered Fire & Theft, Directline IIRC offer this for a reduced amount, though they insist it is stored in a locked garage.

From one side it makes sense - this will cut down on the number of people who drive without insurance by making it a automatic offence - however these people will probably just SORN them and drive anyway.
It will, on the other side, further criminalise people who are busy with life in general!

I'm not sure I have any opinion one way or another, as it won't, in my current situation, affect me. It may in the future if I have a specific off-roader or just a spare vehicle, but even then I'd probably just get a multi-vehicle policy or laid-up insurance for it in case of theft.

Edited by Cyberprog on Monday 6th December 00:33

[Getragdogleg]

"laid up cover" does not cover you to use on the road but would say to an ANPR that my car was taxed, insured and MoT'd

Wow, that is a good system, this new SORN or insure will work a treat.

[streaky]

Getragdogleg said:

"laid up cover" does not cover you to use on the road but would say to an ANPR that my car was taxed, insured and MoT'd

Wow, that is a good system, this new SORN or insure will work a treat.

Is the MID updated for "laid up" cover only? It should only reflect the fact that a driver has RTA cover and that a specific vehicle (or vehicles) registration mark is given in the policy. Oh, the torture of trying to comply with the EU Directive when your legislation works differently. Someone in government needs to grasp the nettle ... I can't really understand why they haven't - Streaky

[Noger]

streaky said:

Getragdogleg said:

"laid up cover" does not cover you to use on the road but would say to an ANPR that my car was taxed, insured and MoT'd

Wow, that is a good system, this new SORN or insure will work a treat.

Is the MID updated for "laid up" cover only? It should only reflect the fact that a driver has RTA cover and that a specific vehicle (or vehicles) registration mark is given in the policy. Oh, the torture of trying to comply with the EU Directive when your legislation works differently. Someone in government needs to grasp the nettle ... I can't really understand why they haven't - Streaky

No, MID is updated when you remove TP cover.

Which EU directive are we talking about ?

[saaby93]

Cyberprog said:

From one side it makes sense - this will cut down on the number of people who drive without insurance by making it a automatic offence - however these people will probably just SORN them and drive anyway.

It already is an automatic offence
The problem is catching them before they have an accident
This new proposal is all linked to the vehicle so there still no way of knowing if the driver is insured
Check R1Loons list to see the insurance industry thinking
then realise most of it checks the car not the person and there's the (mistaken) bit about tax disk.

It was a long day yesterday

[ZOLLAR]

saaby93 said:

It was a long day yesterday

I have a feeling today will be no different..

[saaby93]

ZOLLAR said:

I have a feeling today will be no different..

It's already diferent

I'm much happier than I was.
If you can keep the tax disc and either SORN/unSORN online or phone up it is only a few extra minutes.
There'll be the new offence of having a valid tax disc, valid insurance but forgetting (or computer fails) to unSORN!
Just hope the various data bases update quicker then the Askmid one.

How many uninsureds fall into the category this covers?
Ive only seen an overall figure