Seat Leon 154mph A11

[tapereel]

surveyor_101 said:

tapereel said:

It isn't "hooey" at all.

I have no intent on "stoning" the guy at all. I am however of the opinion that 154mph on a public road is unacceptable and that penalties handed out when that speed is evidenced are suitable to deter it in the "young-guy/VMAX brigade". A 54 day ban doesn't do it in my opinion.

It is also my opinion that anyone driving at double the speed limit is demonstrating a type of driving that falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver, and it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous. Because of that I think that a more suitable charge would have been dangerous driving.

If you think that isn't right because Mr Howlett is a driving god then you are quite wrong as driving skill doesn't warrant or form mitigation for a charge of dangerous driving.

So essential rather than a speeder you wanted him dealt with a criminal and do prison time?

Not necessarily. I do however think that a more suitable charge would have been sect 2 RTA dangerous driving; it would then be up to the courts to decide on what to do with him and not make the mistake of thinking that a 56-day ban was their limit because they were only dealing with a speeding case.
Maybe those who make charging decisions should have the notion that "speed on its own isn't dangeous" taken out of their guide!

[carinaman]

Yet when there was an accident that endangered others the police seem uninterested?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMLc_y5eOj4

So if the Civic driver with woefully inadequate driving standards is later involved in another accident with a more serious outcome couldn't questions be asked why nothing was done when there was video evidence of previous poor driving?

'Speed Kills'? So does driving like an utter tool.

[hora]

Your last sentence can easily apply to the Leon driver too.

[carinaman]

Someone that hasn't had an accident while speeding is prosecuted while the police aren't interested in the deficient driver in the Civic that endangered the lives of others on that road?

There's a lack of proportionality.

Those suggesting the Mechanic driver of the 154MPH Seat should have received a more punitive sentence should be kicking up a stink about why the police didn't get that Civic driver in court or on a 'driver improvement' course.

Playing dodgems on a Motorway while it's open to other road users should attract a minimum of 6 points?

Edited by carinaman on Thursday 4th August 17:52

[StottyEvo]

I'm with you on this Carinaman. I see some dangerously poor driving on an almost daily basis, but as it doesn't involve breaking the speed limit no one seems interested.

[Red Devil]

tapereel said:

Gargamel said:

Yep it was quick, but it wasn't an accident and no one got hurt this time.

It was quick, most likely dangerously so. Danger means that something bad may occur not that it will or has occured. Once the danger is realised the danger is over. The use of this sort of speed on a public road adds to the danger and once realised the outcome is most likely to be catastrophic for either this driver or someone being unfortunate enough to come accross him in a way that would not avoid a collision. Someone driving perfectly reasonably and who is not expecting a vehicle approaching at a closing speed of 70mph+ on a road will not expect a vehicle, seen 275m away from a junction say, to be upon them turning across the road only 4 seconds later. Someone pulling out from a junction from a stand-still may well take 4 seconds to move and be across the road and out of the way of an approaching vehicle. Howlett would be unlikely to make any significant braking effort in that time in that situation either.

While you make a perfectly valid point, it is not applicable to the Howlett case. The A11 between the Elvedon junction and the Five Ways roundabout at Barton Moss has no other junctions. Even if he was clocked east of A11/B1106, that is grade separated so your 'turning across the carriageway' scenario is not credible.

tapereel said:

If it was someone who was 60 years old or more that driver probably wouldn't even see the car at that distance.

The clear implication of this comment is that all those 60 or over have defective eyesight.

You were doing so well at the beginning, then you go and spoil it by introducing something irrelevant to this case and compound it with subjective claptrap.

tapereel said:

Was Mr Howlett looking 300m in front of his vehicle and perceiving hazards that he would have little or no chance of avoiding when he came across them at over 150mph? I think not.

As you weren't there, on what do you base this further subjective implication that he wasn't looking? Perception of what lies ahead is a different matter. It depends on his visual acuity and how far he could see clearly at 9pm in March on a stretch of roadroad with no street lighting.

tapereel said:

So there was no accident this time, you are right. The problem is that Mr Howlett had no control over whether there would be an accident or not even when someone was just driving absolutely normally 300m in front of him.

No control? Are you seriously suggesting he was incapable of choosing to lift off or brake? None of the articles I have seen make any mention of what other traffic (apart from the police vehicle) was present on the southbound carriageway at the time. This makes it harder to establish the degree of risk. I will hazard a guess that information was available to the magistrates though and they will have considered it when deciding on his punishment.

FWIW I don't condone what Howlett did. 150+ at night at that time of year is not a great idea.

[hora]

StottyEvo said:

I'm with you on this Carinaman. I see some dangerously poor driving on an almost daily basis, but as it doesn't involve breaking the speed limit no one seems interested.

Indirectly implying about cameras?

Do you think a Leon (any Street Leon) can safely be driven at that speed safely? Id say he's on the cars limit, his limit and adrenaline is flowing.

Anything public and I'm out. I don't agree with straight-line Charlie's on public roads.

[surveyor_101]

hora said:

154mph on a public road deserves a 2yr ban and a retest.

Sorry, I don't want to share a public road with anyone (F1 driver down to Jim in Sales) doing that speed. I don't chose to share in their fun.

It's taking this piss rather than just speeding.

71-99 is speeding once you get into 3 figures 110 plus as per sentencing guidelines your beyond reasonable behaviour.

[tapereel]

Red Devil said:

No control? Are you seriously suggesting he was incapable of choosing to lift off or brake? None of the articles I have seen make any mention of what other traffic (apart from the police vehicle) was present on the southbound carriageway at the time. This makes it harder to establish the degree of risk. I will hazard a guess that information was available to the magistrates though and they will have considered it when deciding on his punishment.

FWIW I don't condone what Howlett did. 150+ at night at that time of year is not a great idea.

You seem to understand the issue of visual acuity yet are not aware that acuity degrades after the age of 50.

I am not saying that the chap couldn't lift off and brake the vehicle, what I am saying is that while a vehicle is moving at almost 69 metres every second any driver will not be able to make an appreciable reduction in the speed of a vehicle in 4 or 5 seconds when an unexpected event requires action to avoid.

I am aware of where the event took place but am writing of the general principle of driving at such speeds in a public place. I serioulsy doubt that Mr Howlett was making observations at distances that were approaching 300m form the front of his vehicle and he was doing this consistently thoughout his drive when at that speed. Do you seriously think he was? I can't see that...maybe it is my visual acuity; I am almost 60 after all.

[heebeegeetee]

tapereel said:

You seem to understand the issue of visual acuity yet are not aware that acuity degrades after the age of 50.

I am not saying that the chap couldn't lift off and brake the vehicle, what I am saying is that while a vehicle is moving at almost 69 metres every second any driver will not be able to make an appreciable reduction in the speed of a vehicle in 4 or 5 seconds when an unexpected event requires action to avoid.

That is utter bks. Just driving at a given speed doesn't mean it takes 4-5 seconds to react. With wind resistance factored in the car will slow appreciably immediately the brakes are applied.

Forgive me for asking the cliched question, and I haven't read all the thread, but do drivers in Germany (a mornings drive away) die en masse constantly or something.

Nothing explodes when you do 150mph. In the right place it really is no big deal.

[Black_S3]

s3fella said:

And it was all declared to the insurance company?

Only, my S3 is 363hp, I am in my 40s and it is expensive and quite difficult to get it all insured ticketty boo. Engineers reports, rolling road prints etc were required when it was first completed 8 years ago.

My S3 has been just shy of 340bhp since 2009 when I was 23 with 5 years NCB. All declared over the phone and then a statement of modifications sent to me for signing - the price went up only around £80PA more than standard.... No drama with engineer reports etc for me - maybe you've hit a % power increase wall or an over the top broker/insurance company?

I think a remapped FR will be 270? Cant see why a 21 year old with potential of 4 years NCB would struggle to insure that with a remap declared.

[Alucidnation]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utOX6R4ImNg

[hora]

Let's make it clear we all live cars, speed can be fun under the right conditions, curves etc on track days buy 100mph+ in a straight line on a public road takes ZERO skill. Yes there are sidewinds sometimes but fast on a motorway takes ZERO skill. None. So why pander to 'mate it was a dry clear day so pin a virtual medal on my chest for kudos. Track day it or kart it, or.. The ring etc

[cmaguire]

hora said:

Let's make it clear we all live cars, speed can be fun under the right conditions, curves etc on track days buy 100mph+ in a straight line on a public road takes ZERO skill. Yes there are sidewinds sometimes but fast on a motorway takes ZERO skill. None. So why pander to 'mate it was a dry clear day so pin a virtual medal on my chest for kudos. Track day it or kart it, or.. The ring etc

If it takes zero skill then what is all the fuss about?
You've obviously got an axe to grind and I suspect you are significantly slower than you think you are, on track or otherwise.

[surveyor_101]

heebeegeetee said:

That is utter bks. Just driving at a given speed doesn't mean it takes 4-5 seconds to react. With wind resistance factored in the car will slow appreciably immediately the brakes are applied.

Forgive me for asking the cliched question, and I haven't read all the thread, but do drivers in Germany (a mornings drive away) die en masse constantly or something.

Nothing explodes when you do 150mph. In the right place it really is no big deal.

You want every 21 yr old with with a Paul Walked RIP ride or die sticker doing 150mph on a roads is that what your saying is no big deal? So if you have children and your doing 60 you want people like this doing 94mph faster than you

[surveyor_101]

tapereel said:

Not necessarily. I do however think that a more suitable charge would have been sect 2 RTA dangerous driving; it would then be up to the courts to decide on what to do with him and not make the mistake of thinking that a 56-day ban was their limit because they were only dealing with a speeding case.
Maybe those who make charging decisions should have the notion that "speed on its own isn't dangeous" taken out of their guide!

It' does seems since the 90s magistrates aren't really given guidelines so they can't really treat someone going 101 and 154 differently. The max for that's was 56 days so we will use that.

Seems if your have a disable mum it's a get out of jail free card.

Nigel Mansell got a 6 month ban for 92mph!

Well I am going to start flying 140 plus on the motorway now and if I get caught, roll my mum and misuses into court in a couple of borrowed wheel chairs. Tells mags I am a part mechanic / taxi driver , 125% of my weekly earnings is £150 nickel and I have 7-25 days holiday left to me at work and when would they like me to start my ban,

Job done.

Edited by surveyor_101 on Thursday 4th August 23:09

[agtlaw]

Mansell didn't get a ban for 92 mph. He had 9 points at the time of the offence and was banned for 6 months (the minimum period) pursuant to the 'totting up' provisions.

[tapereel]

agtlaw said:

Mansell didn't get a ban for 92 mph. He had 9 points at the time of the offence and was banned for 6 months (the minimum period) pursuant to the 'totting up' provisions.

...and he was man enough to avoid trotting out a sob story to claim exceptional hardship.

[tapereel]

heebeegeetee said:

tapereel said:

You seem to understand the issue of visual acuity yet are not aware that acuity degrades after the age of 50.

I am not saying that the chap couldn't lift off and brake the vehicle, what I am saying is that while a vehicle is moving at almost 69 metres every second any driver will not be able to make an appreciable reduction in the speed of a vehicle in 4 or 5 seconds when an unexpected event requires action to avoid.

That is utter bks. Just driving at a given speed doesn't mean it takes 4-5 seconds to react. With wind resistance factored in the car will slow appreciably immediately the brakes are applied.

Forgive me for asking the cliched question, and I haven't read all the thread, but do drivers in Germany (a mornings drive away) die en masse constantly or something.

Nothing explodes when you do 150mph. In the right place it really is no big deal.

OK. We'll tab down a track at 154mph, I will bang on the dash and lets see what speed you were doing 4 seconds later.

In the right place it is no big deal but when I do it I'm required to wear a helmet in the car and it isn't on a public road. A public road just isn't the right place...unless you are in Germany...but we're not so it ain't and even in Germany it's debateable whether that is a good idea.

[agtlaw]

A tricky submission if caught speeding in a £250k car.