Any experts on nationality around.
Discussion
Oh, and right of abode vignettes do not transfer to dependants. A child listed on a passport is a different matter, but he's not a child and the rules are somewhat different. What was your nationality on 1st Jan 1983? We're you a naturalised British Citizen? I would suggest, based on the limited information here, that your son needs to seek the advice of an Immigration Solicitor sharpish.
Edited by Sgt Bilko on Thursday 5th December 21:42
Sgt Bilko said:
Oh, and right of abode vignettes do not transfer to dependants. A child listed on a passport is a different matter, but he's not a child and the rules are somewhat different. What was your nationality on 1st Jan 1983? We're you a naturalised British Citizen? I would suggest, based on the limited information here, that your son needs to seek the advice of an Immigration Solicitor sharpish.
ME- on re entry to UK, my old passport, likewise mrs WM, had the phrase ( as per earlier posts) "HOLDER HAS THE RIGHT OF ABODE IN UK", in other words, a UK citizen by birth and right, as is my wife( both our BC list our place of birth as in the UK). He was entered on my passport as "child added", and stamped by BHC,Harare, and allowed to enter UK. BHC Harare, had seen his birth cert ,and as an added argument, my wife applied for a UK passport ,with supporting documentation of children and all ( including him) were added . I've just found out that he would be acknowledged to be a UK citizen ( the silly thing that's caused the problems is that employers need SOLID proof or face fines). His kids need to have a UK entitled mother ,before they can pass on the right of abode. So no problems there. His problem is satisfying the need for proof that he is entitled to reside and work in the UK . Edited by Sgt Bilko on Thursday 5th December 21:42
BTW- Breadvan, can't find the form needed for him to fill in .
said:
The birth was registered both with High Commission and local registry office(hence the passport entry and BC). I recently got in touch with BHC to be told that a record of a birth of a child with his name and DOB was registered with them, but other records are destroyed after a couple of years . Knowing the state of the country I would suggest that the records don't exist in local registrar any more. BHC did suggest that if we had any friends out there to ask them to get one.I was hoping ,given the wexpertise in PH, that someone could suggest how to convert a passport "child added " entry to some form of ID, as potentially son could be considered as illegal ,with no paper proof of his right to be in UK.
If it was registered with the High Commission in Zimbabwe then you can get a copy from the GRO in this country, using the link Breadvan supplied. What records are destroyed after a couple of years?
Edited by jbswagger on Thursday 5th December 23:07
Breadvan72 said:
The High Commission version of the birth certificate can be obtained online from the General Register Office in the UK.
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
£9.25 a copy or £23.40 for the priority service.
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
£9.25 a copy or £23.40 for the priority service.
That should be the first route you take, OP. If for some reason that does not work out, then take the Home Office Route, supplying info as to parentage, and that should produce a certificate of nationality. As noted above, don't bother the Jobcentre as it can't help on this (note the standard PH Mr Angry All Civil Servants Are Idle Scumbags suggestion above of issuing complaints and demanding that public sector bums be kicked, but ignore this).
[quote=Who me ?]
BTW- Breadvan, can't find the form needed for him to fill in .
Sorry to be pedantic, but I'm struggling to see why that phrase would be in a British Passport. What kind of passport was it?Sgt Bilko said:
Oh, and right of abode vignettes do not transfer to dependants. A child listed on a passport is a different matter, but he's not a child and the rules are somewhat different. What was your nationality on 1st Jan 1983? We're you a naturalised British Citizen? I would suggest, based on the limited information here, that your son needs to seek the advice of an Immigration Solicitor sharpish.
ME- on re entry to UK, my old passport, likewise mrs WM, had the phrase ( as per earlier posts) "HOLDER HAS THE RIGHT OF ABODE IN UK", in other words, a UK citizen by birth and right, as is my wife( both our BC list our place of birth as in the UK). He was entered on my passport as "child added", and stamped by BHC,Harare, and allowed to enter UK. BHC Harare, had seen his birth cert ,and as an added argument, my wife applied for a UK passport ,with supporting documentation of children and all ( including him) were added . I've just found out that he would be acknowledged to be a UK citizen ( the silly thing that's caused the problems is that employers need SOLID proof or face fines). His kids need to have a UK entitled mother ,before they can pass on the right of abode. So no problems there. His problem is satisfying the need for proof that he is entitled to reside and work in the UK . Edited by Sgt Bilko on Thursday 5th December 21:42
BTW- Breadvan, can't find the form needed for him to fill in .
It was in every old Black passport, even those issued abroad , before the UK gave up and started to use the red ones.Just done a google on the phrase and it was changed in 1983 -"A British passport issued after 1 January 1983 containing the description 'A British citizen' means that the holder has the right of abode in the UK" . ( But it's possible to mark the passport as "citizenship not defined"
Can't find any more on the phrase ,but it could be that classes of entry rights were different pre 1983 . However ,by finding that link,I've found a lot more info .
Can't find any more on the phrase ,but it could be that classes of entry rights were different pre 1983 . However ,by finding that link,I've found a lot more info .
[quote=Who me ?]It was in every old Black passport, even those issued abroad , before the UK gave up and started to use the red ones.Just done a google on the phrase and it was changed in 1983 -"A British passport issued after 1 January 1983 containing the description 'A British citizen' means that the holder has the right of abode in the UK" . ( But it's possible to mark the passport as "citizenship not defined"
Can't find any more on the phrase ,but it could be that classes of entry rights were different pre 1983 . However ,by finding that link,I've found a lot more info .
[/quote]
With you know. Apologies, I wasn't the legal bearer or a passport in 1983 and we don't come across them these days.
As far as I can tell, as breadvan advises many times, filling out those forms should sort the issue out. Your British nationality transfers down the generation even if born abroad. Many countries changed their laws in the 70s to avoid the "born in-country" nationality rights to stop people hanging around and popping one out just to claim some rights.
Can't find any more on the phrase ,but it could be that classes of entry rights were different pre 1983 . However ,by finding that link,I've found a lot more info .
[/quote]
With you know. Apologies, I wasn't the legal bearer or a passport in 1983 and we don't come across them these days.
As far as I can tell, as breadvan advises many times, filling out those forms should sort the issue out. Your British nationality transfers down the generation even if born abroad. Many countries changed their laws in the 70s to avoid the "born in-country" nationality rights to stop people hanging around and popping one out just to claim some rights.
Update, and a thank 
to Breadvan for his advice on another post.I contacted the central registry and paid them to find a match for this BC. It's just come back "We do not hold records for the certificate you have applied for. We suggest that you contact The Foreign Embassy of the country concerned who may hold the records. "
I've previously contacted the Zimbabwean Embassy ,who ( off the record) suggested what I suspected about paid inquiries to their Gov't Departments. My daughter has a FB old school friend( of mixed race) living out there, who would like to help, but feels it too dangerous for her to get involved in even asking about the BC of a white born in Zimbabwe.
So, with BA tells me that son has full UK rights, but with most UK firms looking for a BC, WHAT/WHERE NEXT.
Any help gratefully appreciated and faithfully applied .
to Breadvan for his advice on another post.I contacted the central registry and paid them to find a match for this BC. It's just come back "We do not hold records for the certificate you have applied for. We suggest that you contact The Foreign Embassy of the country concerned who may hold the records. "I've previously contacted the Zimbabwean Embassy ,who ( off the record) suggested what I suspected about paid inquiries to their Gov't Departments. My daughter has a FB old school friend( of mixed race) living out there, who would like to help, but feels it too dangerous for her to get involved in even asking about the BC of a white born in Zimbabwe.
So, with BA tells me that son has full UK rights, but with most UK firms looking for a BC, WHAT/WHERE NEXT.
Any help gratefully appreciated and faithfully applied .
to sort employers out, get an official signed letter from the Border Agency, stating your son is able to work in the uk as he is a full citizen, BUT due to various bureaucratic difficulties, a birth certificate cannot be produced at this time, however a full uk passport can be produced. (your son will need his own valid uk passport and letter will need to have a verified copy of this printed on it plus a border officer signatures, as letter will certify he is able to work)
Follow this route:-
Breadvan72 said:
Breadvan72 said:
Thanks, Breadvan. A further favour, if you can oblige- can you point me in the direction of the "Nationality fees" leaflet mentioned on P7. If it wasn't so serious this case could be right out of "Yes Minister" .
Child is added ,legitimately to holders of UK passports, who are his parents. Therefore child has UK citizenship rights, by birth, as stated by FCO, who now demand proof of his citizenship before they can offer him a UK passport. One other question if anyone can answer it is - how long do various Gov't bodies hold on to BC . It's a long time now, but at one time we got child benefit and family tax credit for him ( BC registered) and at one time he did consider an Army career ,and was accepted as a UK citizen . BHC offices only hold BC for 12 years, and I've got a record of an email from BHC in Harare stating that a child of his name, was born in the town I claim he was on the date I specified .Unfortunately, there's no connection mentioned to either my or my wife's passport number. To add insult to injury, I seem to remember getting register of elector forms with him on them, and to the best of my knowledge he gets them at his recorded address.
Child is added ,legitimately to holders of UK passports, who are his parents. Therefore child has UK citizenship rights, by birth, as stated by FCO, who now demand proof of his citizenship before they can offer him a UK passport. One other question if anyone can answer it is - how long do various Gov't bodies hold on to BC . It's a long time now, but at one time we got child benefit and family tax credit for him ( BC registered) and at one time he did consider an Army career ,and was accepted as a UK citizen . BHC offices only hold BC for 12 years, and I've got a record of an email from BHC in Harare stating that a child of his name, was born in the town I claim he was on the date I specified .Unfortunately, there's no connection mentioned to either my or my wife's passport number. To add insult to injury, I seem to remember getting register of elector forms with him on them, and to the best of my knowledge he gets them at his recorded address.
I get the impression the OP would be better off finding a blank Zim BC(or acquiring a completed one, scanning it and generating a blank) and making their own replacement BC; presumably the OP knows where and when the prodigal first emerged, given the basket-case nature of Zim the chances of being rumbled are poorer than winning the lottery.
For a very high chance of a good outcome, contact the excellent Paul Simon.
http://www.plsimon.co.uk/
Tell him GC sent you.
http://www.plsimon.co.uk/
Tell him GC sent you.
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