Got pulled for no insurance - Help!!
Discussion
saaby93 said:
LikesBikes said:
saaby93 said:
I'm confused now
why are you taking out more insurance?
I need insurance to get the car released.why are you taking out more insurance?
Its been suggested on another forum that as they failed with confirming the no claims where this other bloke found the details easily in a few minutes and that an apology was made during the call that I should request a letter along the lines of "Policy cancelled in error... would have been covered as a minimum level of third party only should the worst have happened" to take to the Police and have the FPN cancelled.
This seems a bit too good to be true, have a number for a couple of specialist 'motoring offence' type solicitors who give free advice over the telephone. Will ring those tomorrow and see if I can go down this avenue?
Cheers
edited because I missed out an important part
Edited by LikesBikes on Thursday 15th April 21:56
Many thanks for all your replies, apologies for not recalling right now exactly who said what without reading back through but your support has been great.
Anyway, this morning I spoke to a solicitor who specialises in motoring offences. He said that this is an 'absolute' offence as described by someone here (think it was Mel) so there can be no plea other than guilty as I had no insurance at the time of the incident. However he went on to say that on the basis of the details discussed I have a very good case for mitigation. He said that at the hearing he would ask for an adjournment due to special mitigating circumstances. I told him of the previous fine given to Hastings direct and the exceptionally low premium on my policy, he said that was good for us as it gives them a dubious history and "adds a little spice" to our case. He said he would likely expect a conviction with zero points awarded, possibly the fine would stand as in his experience magistrates don’t generally drop the fine.
He said that as someone in full time employment with a reasonable income, several years history of continuous insurance and someone who drives for a living I do not fit the profile of people normally associated with this offence which obviously can only be a good thing. He said more, but I'm trying to keep it brief. Please ask if you're wondering about anything?
Also spoke to the cancellation people at Hastings this morning, the guy on the phone said that he wasn’t suggesting that I had received the letters and they would be willing to write a letter stating that the insurance was cancelled through no fault of my own. I find this something of a contradiction bearing in mind the repeated statements of “The letters were definitely sent because the computer said so” and my alleged repeated failure to respond. I asked did they not think it was odd that a long insured (on both cars and bikes) married father of two suddenly decided at the age of 34 that he was no longer bothered about insurance and would it be an idea to try to reach this customer by telephone? The response was basically “Our normal procedure is contact by post”.
After this I was passed onto the complaints department. I inquired about how they initially claimed not to receive my no claims declaration/previous insurer details then suddenly they knew about Equity Red Star who the previous policy was with. The lady said that this was from my initial internet application, possibly I misunderstood this the first time but this seems to have chopped and changed a bit. I then inquired about the talk of “mistakes” and apologies during my first conversation with the cancellations people, she said that this meant mistakes were made by someone but not them, either myself or Equity Red Star apparently.
She went on to explain that Equity Red Star could find no trace of me on the 12th of January when they enquired? I asked how was it that over 3 months later on the 15th of April a old fashioned high street broker in Swindon got all the required details over the phone from Equity in only a few minutes with just a name and address? She said she didn’t know and that I must have given the wrong details in my initial application, which is where the details would have been taken from. However the details on the Equity certificate match those on the Hastings one along with all my other official documents perfectly, I pointed this out and the response was basically “I don’t know, they couldn’t provide them at the time“. Asked why I wasn’t contacted by ’phone at this point (Because lets be honest, they might’ve got themselves a higher premium) and she told me the procedure was contact by letter and it would be unfair to have phoned me as they do not phone other customers, I think she was basically asking why I thought I was special. I enquired as to why the other methods of contact were listed if their procedures were for contact to only be made by letter? After much waffle I received no answer to this.
I asked if their policy was to make merely enough effort to satisfy their procedures and “to hell with the little man”? She stressed that this was not the case. Throughout this conversation I brought up the fact I was going to find myself with a criminal record due to them going no further than their normal procedure and the response was of consistent disinterest. Throughout the conversation I made much mention of the Ombudsman already being involved and hinted at legal action in the future, she implied that the fault lied with Equity Red Star. I asked if she thought that in that case, should I decide to take legal action should I take it against Equity if anyone and her reply implied this was the best idea!
At the end of the conversation I got the standard pre-programmed ‘Thank you for your input and suggestions, we take them on board and will consider them at any future reviews of our procedures”. I merely thanked her for her time and said that I wasn’t getting at her personally.
During both conversations with Hastings today I suggested the ‘cancelled by mistake/would’ve covered this gentleman for third party liability in view of the circumstances’ letter. Needless to say my doubts and those of others on here were correct, this would not be forthcoming. I am however looking forward to receiving the letter offered stating that the policy was cancelled through no fault of my own. I am sure it would help with my appearance in front of the magistrate and during future insurance applications, however somehow I suspect I’m going to be disappointed.
So much for trying to keep it brief, apologies for going on a bit
The whole affair is getting a bit too much for me through the stress of it all and a lack of sleep (this may also explain the surreal bad dream feeling to it all). I am starting to feel like I’m already beaten however the positive posts from everyone here encourage me to keep kicking so my sincere thanks for that. I have not visited PH much of late as I felt it was getting ‘cliquey’ and distant from me. The responses to this thread have restored my faith in the good people on here and made me determined to make more time to look in.
My apologies to all for my replies being somewhat few and far between, I have been juggling work, arranging insurance, getting my car released and calls to all and sundry since the pull on Wednesday night. I am hoping to find some time tomorrow and Sunday afternoon to hopefully be on here at the same time as a lot of the posters on this thread
My thanks once again to you all,
Darren.
Anyway, this morning I spoke to a solicitor who specialises in motoring offences. He said that this is an 'absolute' offence as described by someone here (think it was Mel) so there can be no plea other than guilty as I had no insurance at the time of the incident. However he went on to say that on the basis of the details discussed I have a very good case for mitigation. He said that at the hearing he would ask for an adjournment due to special mitigating circumstances. I told him of the previous fine given to Hastings direct and the exceptionally low premium on my policy, he said that was good for us as it gives them a dubious history and "adds a little spice" to our case. He said he would likely expect a conviction with zero points awarded, possibly the fine would stand as in his experience magistrates don’t generally drop the fine.
He said that as someone in full time employment with a reasonable income, several years history of continuous insurance and someone who drives for a living I do not fit the profile of people normally associated with this offence which obviously can only be a good thing. He said more, but I'm trying to keep it brief. Please ask if you're wondering about anything?
Also spoke to the cancellation people at Hastings this morning, the guy on the phone said that he wasn’t suggesting that I had received the letters and they would be willing to write a letter stating that the insurance was cancelled through no fault of my own. I find this something of a contradiction bearing in mind the repeated statements of “The letters were definitely sent because the computer said so” and my alleged repeated failure to respond. I asked did they not think it was odd that a long insured (on both cars and bikes) married father of two suddenly decided at the age of 34 that he was no longer bothered about insurance and would it be an idea to try to reach this customer by telephone? The response was basically “Our normal procedure is contact by post”.
After this I was passed onto the complaints department. I inquired about how they initially claimed not to receive my no claims declaration/previous insurer details then suddenly they knew about Equity Red Star who the previous policy was with. The lady said that this was from my initial internet application, possibly I misunderstood this the first time but this seems to have chopped and changed a bit. I then inquired about the talk of “mistakes” and apologies during my first conversation with the cancellations people, she said that this meant mistakes were made by someone but not them, either myself or Equity Red Star apparently.
She went on to explain that Equity Red Star could find no trace of me on the 12th of January when they enquired? I asked how was it that over 3 months later on the 15th of April a old fashioned high street broker in Swindon got all the required details over the phone from Equity in only a few minutes with just a name and address? She said she didn’t know and that I must have given the wrong details in my initial application, which is where the details would have been taken from. However the details on the Equity certificate match those on the Hastings one along with all my other official documents perfectly, I pointed this out and the response was basically “I don’t know, they couldn’t provide them at the time“. Asked why I wasn’t contacted by ’phone at this point (Because lets be honest, they might’ve got themselves a higher premium) and she told me the procedure was contact by letter and it would be unfair to have phoned me as they do not phone other customers, I think she was basically asking why I thought I was special. I enquired as to why the other methods of contact were listed if their procedures were for contact to only be made by letter? After much waffle I received no answer to this.
I asked if their policy was to make merely enough effort to satisfy their procedures and “to hell with the little man”? She stressed that this was not the case. Throughout this conversation I brought up the fact I was going to find myself with a criminal record due to them going no further than their normal procedure and the response was of consistent disinterest. Throughout the conversation I made much mention of the Ombudsman already being involved and hinted at legal action in the future, she implied that the fault lied with Equity Red Star. I asked if she thought that in that case, should I decide to take legal action should I take it against Equity if anyone and her reply implied this was the best idea!
At the end of the conversation I got the standard pre-programmed ‘Thank you for your input and suggestions, we take them on board and will consider them at any future reviews of our procedures”. I merely thanked her for her time and said that I wasn’t getting at her personally.
During both conversations with Hastings today I suggested the ‘cancelled by mistake/would’ve covered this gentleman for third party liability in view of the circumstances’ letter. Needless to say my doubts and those of others on here were correct, this would not be forthcoming. I am however looking forward to receiving the letter offered stating that the policy was cancelled through no fault of my own. I am sure it would help with my appearance in front of the magistrate and during future insurance applications, however somehow I suspect I’m going to be disappointed.
So much for trying to keep it brief, apologies for going on a bit
The whole affair is getting a bit too much for me through the stress of it all and a lack of sleep (this may also explain the surreal bad dream feeling to it all). I am starting to feel like I’m already beaten however the positive posts from everyone here encourage me to keep kicking so my sincere thanks for that. I have not visited PH much of late as I felt it was getting ‘cliquey’ and distant from me. The responses to this thread have restored my faith in the good people on here and made me determined to make more time to look in.
My apologies to all for my replies being somewhat few and far between, I have been juggling work, arranging insurance, getting my car released and calls to all and sundry since the pull on Wednesday night. I am hoping to find some time tomorrow and Sunday afternoon to hopefully be on here at the same time as a lot of the posters on this thread
My thanks once again to you all,
Darren.
It has just occurred to me that If I indeed receive their offered letter stating the cancellation was through no fault of my own, that would basically say that I couldn't have responded to these letters (as that is what the policy was effectively cancelled for) as I knew nothing of them? With that in mind, would this also count as a statement that I had no knowledge of the insurance being cancelled at any point thus making me as innocent as possible in this 'absolute offence'? Could this possibly lead to the case being thrown out?
I did ask (without using the word backdated), but they told me that the 'cancelled in error/was covered after all' letter would not happen. Obviously I've only spoken to the woman in complaints and a monkey in the cancellation department, I do have their names but obviously they are not in a position to give something like that. They said that this was not possible once a policy had been cancelled.
I need to speak to someone who would have the authority to grant this and speak to them. Any ideas of who would have this sort of authority (if it is even possible) would be gratefully received? The thing is if they are right and it can't be done, and I suspect that is the case, it won't be done! This solicitor didn't think it was likely.
Cheers, Darren
randlemarcus said:
Also, the facts are that the offence isnt driving with no knowledge of no insurance, sadly. You are guilty of not having insurance, unless you can get them to state that they consider you to have been insured in writing. Mel got an absolute discharge, which isnt the same thing as Not Guilty.
No I realise that, when I say "as innocent as possible" in an absolute offence I like to think there would be no fine and no points which brings it to the point where they might as well throw the case out and not even bother convicting me? If this letter could be submitted prior to the hearing would it be thrown out?saaby93 said:
Surely every company has a procedure for correcting mistakes 
They may not want to own up to having one though.
Try to ask them separately what they do if they accidently cancel a policy
At some point someone must've cicked the wrong box or pressed return at the wrong time, there must be a way to put that right.They may not want to own up to having one though.
Try to ask them separately what they do if they accidently cancel a policy
Will try that route on Monday when I inquire about this letter, there must be a precedent for mistakenly cancelled policies. Is it legal to record these conversations?
randlemarcus said:
Edward Fitzmaurice
Chief Executive Officers Office
Conquest House
Collington Avenue
Bexhill-on-Sea
TN39 3LW
This will be treated seriously, if not by him personally.
Wow, you're a star. Am I being thick or is this stuff easy to find? Will compose a letter over the weekend.Chief Executive Officers Office
Conquest House
Collington Avenue
Bexhill-on-Sea
TN39 3LW
This will be treated seriously, if not by him personally.
Cheers
Got a letter from the ombudsman this morning, not hopeful there. Read the copy of the form they sent Hastings and it bears little resemblance to what I said. In the box for acceptable outcomes it just says "wants points removed" ffs. I didn't say that at all, its not like Hastings have the power to do that and I don't even have points as yet. A long phone call Monday then.
Checked that MID thing earlier and my car still isn't on the database so didn't use car today. Another long call on Monday
Can someone explain "Absolute Discharge" and the consequences to me. I think I have it but want to make sure I have it right for obvious reasons.
Many thanks all,
Darren.
Checked that MID thing earlier and my car still isn't on the database so didn't use car today. Another long call on Monday
Can someone explain "Absolute Discharge" and the consequences to me. I think I have it but want to make sure I have it right for obvious reasons.
Many thanks all,
Darren.
Edited by LikesBikes on Saturday 17th April 20:10
Like the way you're thinking but a solicitor has already told me that I can't plead not guilty due to the 'absolute offence' thing. What you suggest is kind of my original plan until I spoke to this brief.
As for this Absolute Discharge, am I right in thinking that if I'm lucky enough to get this I will receive no fine or points however I will have a criminal record. What I'm not sure about is whether or not my license will show an IN10 conviction that I have to declare to future insurers or employers and suchlike?
They are sending me copies of these letters allegedley sent, hoping to receive them tomorrow. Now if the final one says "Your policy has been cancelled blah blah blah, please retun the certificate...", am I buggered or could it be suggested that a further attempt should be made by the insurers to recover that certificate? Clearly this has not been made and even Hastings are not arguing that it has, trying to figure out if this is a good thing for me?
That was my original argument with them, if they sent a letter giving seven days notice of cancellation would they not find it odd that someone failed to respond to that letter and then failed to respond to a subsequent one saying that it had been cancelled would they not find that odd and decide that it possibly merited a telephone call to inquire? After all someone could be away or anything.
I find it strange that an insurance company, after getting no response from letters that I think most normal people would find frightening, would rather refund my £301 premium (minus charges of course) instead of making one telephone call and leaving a message if there was no answer. After all, these people are not normally keen on giving people money are they.
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